Charlie speaks..... Finally!!!

[iceondsom]

There are problems that have been causing E* customers to leave for alot longer than 6 months.

Until last quarter E*'s churn was below the industry average.

 

[skottey]

Don't let the door hit your backside on the way. Locals is where Direct is gaining on Dish. Glad you can afford multiple providers, multiple boxes and multiple remotes. Must be nice.

I'd pay up to what I pay now for two providers if somebody would come along and offer better options. I'd rather have one provider. I shouldn't have to subscribe to two services to get what I want. I'm in favor of an ala cart method where providers let you pick and choose what you want. I don't like paying for everything I don't watch on either provider.

 

[Senato]

Until last quarter E*'s churn was below the industry average.

And until last year GM was the largest producer of automobiles. But they most likely never will be again.

 

[iceondsom]

#2 - Offer better deals to existing customers for HD upgrades ,etc. The current DIU deals have come a ways with this but you cant tell me a HD customer paying over $100 a month is not making alot of money for E*. Let them upgrade if they want without raking them. This customer is likely to stay rather than the new customer you just handed free equipment to.

It takes on average 15 months to recoup the cost of subsidizing the equipment and install. Therefore a ranking system is necessary. Until that 15th month (on average) a customer is NOT generating a profit for E*. It is important to take care of existing customers but there are costs involved!

 

[iceondsom]

And until last year GM was the largest producer of automobiles. But they most likely never will be again.

How profound.

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

It takes on average 15 months to recoup the cost of subsidizing the equipment and install. Therefore a ranking system is necessary. Until that 15th month (on average) a customer is NOT generating a profit for E*. It is important to take care of existing customers but there are costs involved!

Sorry have heard this all before and I just dont buy it. When you pay over $100-$120 for all the HD programming it doesnt take to long to make a profit. In addition many 722 upgrades are just plug in and they can make 722's for a small portion of what they sell them for. This is another story E* makes up.

Here is proof-
Activate as a new customer using club dish or as a new customer and dont sign up for the 18 month contract. This would cause you to have to pay $49.99 for activation, which is waived with club dish. So now you would be a customer with no contract, paid nothing, and can cancel anytime with no penalty. Would Dish really eat the huge cost of this that you claim takes into the 15 month to get back???? Anyone can do this, not just a select few. Did this with a family member, signed up and got a 625 and 322, 4 room, dish 1000. Decided to rent a different house and canceled after 4 months. Total cost? Only the monthly programming charges each month.

 

[iceondsom]

Sorry have heard this all before and I just dont buy it. When you pay over $100-$120 for all the HD programming it doesnt take to long to make a profit. In addition many 722 upgrades are just plug in and they can make 722's for a small portion of what they sell them for. This is another story E* makes up.

Okay, what in your estimation is the break-even point for an average E* customer on DDA with a premium paying approximately $60/month?

 

[boston area dtv]

I dont see that there was anything profound in what Egren said.

I dont say that in slight..I say that this industry is full of ebbs and flows.

E* was out in front and D* played catch up. D* caught up and now its E*'s turn.

Scott has said this before on these boards and I agree. E*'s big issue is advertising. D* crushed them. Much in the way that people see Bluray as THE HD DVD provider and HD DVD has done a miserable job, E* has done nothing with their advertising of their product.

All you have to do is look at this board. We spend most of the time debating D*s claims.

E* will catch up and then it will be D*'s turn again and we all will win.

 

[iceondsom]

Scott has said this before on these boards and I agree. E*'s big issue is advertising. D* crushed them. Much in the way that people see Bluray as THE HD DVD provider and HD DVD has done a miserable job, E* has done nothing with their advertising of their product.

I agree 100%. E* has the best equipment and best service out there but they don't tell anyone about it. They did take a big step in branding with their NASCAR partnership (and it has paid huge dividends) but they still have a lot of room for improvement in that department.

 

[tomyo10]

They are going to focus on HD locals??? How crappy. They send up three birds and they are focusing on HD locals? Screw it... QUOTE]

Well, for you who have their locals in HD via E* or OTA, I'm sure it's not a big deal. For those of us who don't, it is a big deal.

 

[KAB]

Well, for you who have their locals in HD via E* or OTA, I'm sure it's not a big deal. For those of us who don't, it is a big deal.

Amen, Brother! I'd rather be able to record two or three network channels at a time over having another part-time HD channel that I probably will never watch.

 

[tsduke]

They are going to focus on HD locals??? How crappy. They send up three birds and they are focusing on HD locals? Screw it... I guess I will drop them soon. I have cable and Dish and with the exception of NatGeo, Starz, and Voom channels, my cable provider (Bright House) is getting pretty near what Dish has now as far as the HD I watch. It is getting to be all the same. When I got Dish it had way more HD than BHN and a better DVR. Now it still has a better DVR, but not much more HD. There is no point in me paying for a second provider anymore. They want to focus on HD locals, fine, count me out. I don't get my locals through Dish anyway. I gave an OTA antenna on each of my main HD TVs and my cable subscription gives me all the HD locals too.

Are they just going to give up on being the national HD leader? Because if they are, I'll go elsewhere. I think Voom was before its time but I think it is now time for a new provider to come out with an HD only satellite lineup to feed the HD needs as a secondary provider for those that want and can afford it, with ALL the HD channels offered nationally. I'd keep cable, and ditch Dish, going with them at almost any price.

The next best thing is to shell out for DirecTV and ditch Dish. Looks like it is going to be a while before Dish catches up. Focusing on HD locals with their new sats. Please!!!

Lack of HD locals on E* is one of the big reasons they have churn. It's not just the nationals.

 

[skottey]

Sorry have heard this all before and I just dont buy it. When you pay over $100-$120 for all the HD programming it doesnt take to long to make a profit. In addition many 722 upgrades are just plug in and they can make 722's for a small portion of what they sell them for. This is another story E* makes up.

Here is proof-
Activate as a new customer using club dish or as a new customer and dont sign up for the 18 month contract. This would cause you to have to pay $49.99 for activation, which is waived with club dish. So now you would be a customer with no contract, paid nothing, and can cancel anytime with no penalty. Would Dish really eat the huge cost of this that you claim takes into the 15 month to get back???? Anyone can do this, not just a select few. Did this with a family member, signed up and got a 625 and 322, 4 room, dish 1000. Decided to rent a different house and canceled after 4 months. Total cost? Only the monthly programming charges each month.

I've had them since spring... like 10 months max... I am not on a contract and thinking of leaving. You are right. Nobody can say they haven't made a profit off me yet.

 

[kennya]

They are going to focus on HD locals??? How crappy. They send up three birds and they are focusing on HD locals? Screw it... I guess I will drop them soon. I have cable and Dish and with the exception of NatGeo, Starz, and Voom channels, my cable provider (Bright House) is getting pretty near what Dish has now as far as the HD I watch. It is getting to be all the same. When I got Dish it had way more HD than BHN and a better DVR. Now it still has a better DVR, but not much more HD. There is no point in me paying for a second provider anymore. They want to focus on HD locals, fine, count me out. I don't get my locals through Dish anyway. I gave an OTA antenna on each of my main HD TVs and my cable subscription gives me all the HD locals too.

Are they just going to give up on being the national HD leader? Because if they are, I'll go elsewhere. I think Voom was before its time but I think it is now time for a new provider to come out with an HD only satellite lineup to feed the HD needs as a secondary provider for those that want and can afford it, with ALL the HD channels offered nationally. I'd keep cable, and ditch Dish, going with them at almost any price.

The next best thing is to shell out for DirecTV and ditch Dish. Looks like it is going to be a while before Dish catches up. Focusing on HD locals with their new sats. Please!!!

I think there are a lot of us who would LOVE to have their locals in HD on Dish! It is not just the national channels that everyone wants. This will be another year I miss football in HD. Even if I wasnt in a contract with Dish, I wouldnt make the switch to Direct. Dish was the leader for a long time when it came to HD channels, and I think that given time to get new birds up, Dish will come back around. But I dont think you are going to see an "HD Leader" before to long. I think once a channel goes HD, both will pick it up pretty quick.

 

[Lord_Vader]

IMO, E* began its decline when they began implementing bogus charges for everything just like the Cable companies do. They went away from their business model that made them a growing company. They also forgot about what made their customers happy, which was more and better TV for less. Now they're more like less and worst TV for more.

+++

I know that it is probably some advertising thing, but its confusing. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to my bill last month when I went to the Dish DVR advantage package. I'll end up emailing them about that too.

 

[iceondsom]

I've had them since spring... like 10 months max... I am not on a contract and thinking of leaving. You are right. Nobody can say they haven't made a profit off me yet.

Clearly you two know nothing about a SAC (Subscriber Acquisition Cost).

 

[skottey]

Clearly you two know nothing about a SAC (Subscriber Acquisition Cost).

Nor do I really care to. If they are doing business with me and not yet making a profit, that is their stupidity. Let them lose money on me. At the rate they are going, by not adding new channels, they are going to lose me as a subscriber and I guess they'll stop the bleeding, financially. Because at the rate of destruction that they are going (in my opinion), they will not make it to 16 months with me and ever make a profit if that is the case.

If it takes them 16 months to make a profit, than they should REQUIRE everyone to sign a 24 month contract, not just offer a non-required 18 month contract for a savings of $49.99. With 18 months they are only going to make 2 months profit off a customer if they bail after the contract. At least 24 months would give them 8 months of profit.

I am glad I don't own stock in them, if what you are suggesting is true.

 

[damjr]

Clearly you two know nothing about a SAC (Subscriber Acquisition Cost).

No doubt !!!! The typical end user thinks that when they make their $40-$100 monthly payment, that all that money goes to the provider. Hummmmmmmm.

Lets see.............with each channel having a cost, and all overhead, csr's, intallers, hardware, etc.................... the provider has to be breaking even after the first month right?

 

[tucksat]

Churn

Churn happens when customers quit. Customers quit because they don't feel loyal to the company. Most folks don't have HD and don't care how many channels are out there. They just feel crapped on when they spend 30 minutes on the phone with someone who is ignorant of how their system works and can't help them. Throw in rudeness and stupid phone menus with talking computers and they just want to chuck it in and go to cable or Direct tv. I've been installing DNW for 5 years now and have been a customer that long. For the last 18 months or so the result of out sourcing has been bad. Most of these people aren't trained to do the job they need to do when they answer the phone and it is the fault of what ever big shot at DNW that is in charge. It is the same for all business, take care of your customers if you don't want "churn". I know you all know this, but I just had to get it off my chest.

 

[richiephx]

I don't understand why people get so caught up in a company's profit margin or churn or net subscriber information or advertising or........ Unless you have a financial interest in E*, who really cares what the company does or doesn't do. You pay them for programming, period. They owe you nothing more than what you are paying them for. If you aren't happy with E* or the programming they provide, you move on to another provider who gives you what you want. All the speculation and debate and worry over something you can't control or can't change is pure silliness.