Come On People! My Rant

[navychop]

You're not getting those cable boxes for free. You're paying each and every month for them. And for low end marginal stuff, to boot.

After my experience with cable EVERY PLACE I HAVE EVER LIVED - AND I HAD A FULL NAVY CAREER (LOT'S OF PLACES)- I will not deal with another cableco if I can possibly avoid it. One of the worst is right here in Northern Virgina.

I'll gladly pay for better service and equipment. And guess what- when I shifted from cable to Dish, service quality and PQ went up- and the price went way down! Even considering I bought 2 301s. Even amortizing my 508 and 721, monthly cost was less than cable. I haven't priced it out since I went with the ViP622 early this year. No point. Can't get the service quality or # of HD channels out of the local cableco at any price.

When Fios comes by my house, should I live that long, I'll get it for voice and internet. They'll have to make major improvements in their DVR (& stop lying to me) before I'll even consider leaving Dish.

 

[popzezo]

FINALLY!!!

intelegent people

 

[B_Kranski]

I have been loyal with my cell phone carrier since they came to the area (sprint) and they offer the "free upgrades" after your 18 months on a 24 month contract if you reup for 24 months. Not only that but then each time I reup, they also offer me more and more minutes even though there is no plans out there like that now. I get 950 anytime and unlimited nights and week-ends and 7:00pm start time for less then $40 a month after taxes and fees. This is what they offer people that have been with them for many years. The offer they gave me was enough for me to say good bye land line. (hence the word competition) Now Cable companies, and I am sure satalite companies dont offer this, they get you to sign up as new customers and hope you like there service enough to keep you, and they do offer reduced rates at upgrading your system...(Dish it'up program) They were going to give me one of the 722's instead of my 622 because I was withen 30 days of recieving my 622 for only $150. I probley should have but decided with the added supprt for teh HDD on the 622 that would provide me with pleanty of space on my 622. These recievers Dish have are way more hearty then the ones Charter have (maybe 12 hour of HD content). So it is all in what you consider a value. My value is what I have and that is why I left Charter. (Value) Plus the content is way better for Dish. But then every person has there own opinion of value. I watch TV and surf internet alot so to me the value is there to me. Thats my $.02 Well maybe close to $.10

Bill

 

[Andrewwski]

You're not getting those cable boxes for free. You're paying each and every month for them. And for low end marginal stuff, to boot.

After my experience with cable EVERY PLACE I HAVE EVER LIVED - AND I HAD A FULL NAVY CAREER (LOT'S OF PLACES)- I will not deal with another cableco if I can possibly avoid it. One of the worst is right here in Northern Virgina.

I'll gladly pay for better service and equipment. And guess what- when I shifted from cable to Dish, service quality and PQ went up- and the price went way down! Even considering I bought 2 301s. Even amortizing my 508 and 721, monthly cost was less than cable. I haven't priced it out since I went with the ViP622 early this year. No point. Can't get the service quality or # of HD channels out of the local cableco at any price.

When Fios comes by my house, should I live that long, I'll get it for voice and internet. They'll have to make major improvements in their DVR (& stop lying to me) before I'll even consider leaving Dish.

And you pay each and every month for satellite boxes too. $5, regardless of whether or not you own it.

I agree that not everyone is entitled to an upgrade all the time. But if Dish gives new customers state-of-the-art equipment, it's only fair that they give it to their existing customers too. And don't tell me they should charge people who switch for the dish and tuners.

 

[mwgiii]

My bill averages around $120/month. It bothers me that a new customer with a minimum package can get a free HD-DVR but I am required to pay a large lease fee.

Am I owed anything? Nope, but it would seem to be a good business practice to keep high-end customers reasonably happy.

 

[B_Kranski]

I think that they should offer upgrade deals...(not free because they are not free to them) but just like the cell phone companies do, offer reduced price recievers with a contract for another x number of years. Lets say 2 since they will need to recoup that money from offering the reduced priced equipment. To ask for something for free to me isnt fair to them. If you owned a cable or satalite company, would you give out everything for free that you had to pay for? I know I wouldn't. I would give them deals for being loyal, but to get something for free when they are top of the line equipment...(which means way overpriced for the first full year or longer) They could do like cable companies and keep the same equimpment for 5+ years and say you will like that and that is what you are going to get, and that is it. So weigh the positives and negatives and then make your choice.

 

[damjr]

I think that they should offer upgrade deals...(not free because they are not free to them) but just like the cell phone companies do, offer reduced price recievers with a contract for another x number of years. Lets say 2 since they will need to recoup that money from offering the reduced priced equipment. To ask for something for free to me isnt fair to them. If you owned a cable or satalite company, would you give out everything for free that you had to pay for? I know I wouldn't. I would give them deals for being loyal, but to get something for free when they are top of the line equipment...(which means way overpriced for the first full year or longer) They could do like cable companies and keep the same equimpment for 5+ years and say you will like that and that is what you are going to get, and that is it. So weigh the positives and negatives and then make your choice.

This is what I was going to say. Well put.

I would also like to add to the people who think that D* & E* are taking their entire monthly programming costs, they're not.

After paying the programmers their fees, taking out overhead costs like uplink centers, CSR's (who have to take all your "give it to me for free" calls), etc.......
D* & E* pockets pennies on the dollar.

This is why it takes 2 years for D* & E* to break even on customers. Now throw in "give me something newer and greater for free" customers that are less than 2 years old and you extend the recoup period.

 

[ts7]

This is why it takes 2 years for D* & E* to break even on customers. Now throw in "give me something newer and greater for free" customers that are less than 2 years old and you extend the recoup period.

Is it really that customers want something "free" or just the ability to take advantage of the latest technology?

I have been out from under a contract for quite some time. I have never asked Dish for anything "free" to keep me as a subscriber (although I have asked for "compensation" when I have had to deal with malfunctioning equipment - there is a difference!). It would be nice if Dish could follow a marketing strategy, as others have suggested, similar to the cell phone industry and offer a "new every two" type deal for existing subscribers that would allow them to keep up with current technology.

To me, the biggest problem - and insult - is that Dish seems to offer nothing in return for customer loyalty. It is no wonder that long term customers get irate with Dish when brand new customers get better equipment, better deals, etc. I'm not suggesting Dish give away the store, but it would be nice to somehow recognize customer loyalty. If not in terms of new equipment, maybe a month of free service for every so many months of continuous service or perhaps some free premium channels for a month or some free pay-per-views. This wouldn't cost them much but would go a long way toward improving the customer relationship and may even generate enough new revenue to make up for the cost of the incentives.

As the market matures and competition continues, it will become much more difficult to maintain market share. As any successful company in similar market conditions realizes - every customer is a future "former" customer if he is not taken care of. It is usually much less costly to retain a customer than to regain him.

 

[okiekevn]

we at dish loath the term loyal lol. i actually had a call from a gal today wanting all this crap for free as she was a "loyal" cust as she said. i wish i could have seen the look on her face when i started naming the dates of the past non-pay discos she has had on her account.

ok, if a customer is as "loyal" as they assume they are, they can nearly get the upgraded equip for the same cost. for instance, a "loyal" cust, or in dish language 5star cust will get a 622 for 49 bucks after the 100 rebate. now they can get a 222 for 19 bucks after rebate, and hey, we will pay them a buck to take a 211. yeah, give them a dollar. they pay 99, we give them 100 back. i dont see any new custs getting paid a buck to get a 211. nope, they are paying 49 for it. on the flip side, a new cust can get a 722 for 49 bucks, while a 5 star can get it for 99 after rebate. if a cust is as loyal as they say, then they shouldnt mind pony'ing up the cash up front, i mean, we did it for them when they got installed in the first place.with the excpetion of those super old installs where extreme large sums of cash was required, but ya'll know what i mean.

 

[JNEUBY]

I could go two ways on this post. I do auto repair and have customers come in and want free lifetime tire rotations if I sell them tires at a discounted price to match the tire store up the road. Somebody has to pay for the free tire rotations. The tire store knows they have to make their money back somehow and guess how that happens. Customers only see the free rotate for life and cannot understand why every time they go in for their free rotation they walk out with a $500 bill. I can understand your point on sat customers wanting everything for free. Satellite companies have an exact formula knowing what their costs of doing business and what profitability margin they are intending. Every product they sell or lease or install has a percentage of profit. The monthly subscription fees have the same. They balance out between the two and most profit comes from the monthly subscriptions. The least comes from equipment installs. When you posted prices for equipment, you posted retail prices. When these sat companies buy dishes, it probably costs them 1/4 of the retail price. They are buying hundreds of thousands of the same product from the manufacturer. They also control the costs of an installer. They for instance may only pay $40 bucks for a house visit yet the installer is there for two hours. The installer is making $20 an hour? I do not know what the financial benchmark is for sat companies to get their profit margins but I do know the time frame is less than what all us believe. So when subscribers call and play the "For Free Game" the sat companies already know how much profit is built in to giving you a deal. Food for thought. No real sat data here but just trying to enlighten both sides points. Jim

 

[damjr]

Is it really that customers want something "free" or just the ability to take advantage of the latest technology?

I have been out from under a contract for quite some time. I have never asked Dish for anything "free" to keep me as a subscriber (although I have asked for "compensation" when I have had to deal with malfunctioning equipment - there is a difference!). It would be nice if Dish could follow a marketing strategy, as others have suggested, similar to the cell phone industry and offer a "new every two" type deal for existing subscribers that would allow them to keep up with current technology.

To me, the biggest problem - and insult - is that Dish seems to offer nothing in return for customer loyalty. It is no wonder that long term customers get irate with Dish when brand new customers get better equipment, better deals, etc. I'm not suggesting Dish give away the store, but it would be nice to somehow recognize customer loyalty. If not in terms of new equipment, maybe a month of free service for every so many months of continuous service or perhaps some free premium channels for a month or some free pay-per-views. This wouldn't cost them much but would go a long way toward improving the customer relationship and may even generate enough new revenue to make up for the cost of the incentives.

As the market matures and competition continues, it will become much more difficult to maintain market share. As any successful company in similar market conditions realizes - every customer is a future "former" customer if he is not taken care of. It is usually much less costly to retain a customer than to regain him.

In your case this is where I agree with you. Customers who have been active for more than 5 years, without late pays,more than the minimal package, etc.............. should be rewarded. I feal the same way about the cell phone companies but they still want to charge me for upgrades to the latest & greatest and tie me in to another 2 year contract.
This is how the game is and there's nothing we can do about it.

What we will be seeing in the future is companies no longer allowing the ole'
"promo hoppers" to continue their game. D* & E* are all ready looking at these people and in some cases not allowing them to come back. Why?
Because these people are the ones inflating the churn rate and aquisition costs. Not good in Wall Streets eyes.

 

[ts7]

In your case this is where I agree with you. Customers who have been active for more than 5 years, without late pays,more than the minimal package, etc.............. should be rewarded.

Your bar seems a bit high. Perhaps if Dish were to provide perfect, undisrupted service for the entire 5 years or so (not counting weather disruptions) then perhaps that bar would be acceptable. I have been a Dish customer for around 5 years, always pay my bill and subscribe to the AT200 package. I have referred three other customers to Dish during this time. In my entire subscription time, I think my payment has been past the due date maybe 3 times at the most - and one of those times was because Dish's website was down and I couldn't get may payment to go through (I ended up calling them the following business day and paying over the phone). The late payments were never more than 2 days late. Overall, I would consider myself a pretty loyal customer.

Now for Dish's obligation to me... I have had 3 522 receivers fail, each resulting in a loss of service for 5-7 days. I have also lost all the programming that was stored on them - including several season finales that I had not yet watched. Another time, a software upgrade wiped out all my recorded programs. I have spent about 45-60 minutes on the phone each time going through the various "idiot tests" that the tier 1 CSR's require the customer to go through. I have then been required to pay the shipping charges on the Dish owned replacement equipment and received no credit for loss of service.

By my estimates, in all fairness, Dish "owes" me at least one month of free service (due to loss of service resulting from faulty Dish-owned equipment). Why is it wrong for me to expect something from Dish to reward my loyalty and patience?

 

[navychop]

Youse pays youse money and youse takes youse chances.

 

[rvdishman]

One thing

Unless something is changed, Dish will not let you pay yearly when you move to HD. I've paid yearly forever till HD. It's a pain to fiddle with paying each month.

Ron

And then there are a few folks like me who have never leased anything and paid for every darn piece of equipment in our systems. Thanks to Ebay, places like The Dish Store and other retailers selling direct, you can do this. Perhaps it helps that you are a "long-time loyal customer", but the only deal I can get from E* is one month free on the AT200 package by paying annually. Taking one offer like this disqualifies you for any others, as I found out when trying to get a discount on a 2-Movie Pac. (I liken this to only being able to use one coupon on each visit to the grocery store.)

So as someone paying only for the service, I have to say that it is also a pain to be nickel and dimed to death by all the little fees Dish imposes (locals, DVR, etc.) and the constant increase in the annual package for what amounts to more and more commercials.

I recently moved up to an HD set and have been anguishing over the decision whether or not to get HD content from Dish. Is it really worth another 20 bucks a month when I can get some decent OTA HD on the local stations? Again, I look at the programming available versus the commercial content. And of course in my case it would also mean another $500 out of pocket for a new 722.

Not that I haven't tried to take advantage of some free upgrades like a SuperDish years ago to get locals which were then on 105. And recently the Dish'in It Up promo for a new HD setup. In each case I was disheartened with the process and/or the people they sent to do the work and canceled.

Bottom line, not everyone wants everything free. It isn't always the best value.

sigmtr

 

[okiekevn]

both d* and e* are in the business to make money. not give it away. promo hoppers kill profits. and why does everyone think just because the equipment is leased that they should not be liable for any charges for shipping when it is faulty and needs replaced. try leasing a car and telling the dealership that they have to pay for all repairs and maintenance since they "own" the car and it is leased. and if you dont want to pay the shipping and handling, may i suggest dhpp? and when you are in posession of a dvr, dont expect the programs you record to last forever. it is a computer in the dvr. the harddrive is a part that may fail and need replacing/formatting. do you expect everything on your pc to be on their forever? no, you back it up in the form of cd or dvd. so buy a dvd recroder and regularly back up your recordings. or how about this??? just get around to watching your recordings. if you have 20+ hours of recordings, you wil never catch up to watching them. not with all the timers you most likely have already set up for future recordings.

 

[8bitbytes]

Unless something is changed, Dish will not let you pay yearly when you move to HD. I've paid yearly forever till HD. It's a pain to fiddle with paying each month.

Ron

If you pay more than your monthly, you run a credit until the balance requires another payment. I put in enough to last about 6 months at a time.

 

[8bitbytes]

if you have 20+ hours of recordings, you wil never catch up to watching them. not with all the timers you most likely have already set up for future recordings.

Evidently, you don't have any kids in college, never have snow day, and never watch tv during rerun weeks or the summer. We knock out a month of recordings all at one time sometimes and I have 10 timers running per week.

Your experience belongs to you and you alone. You have little to no idea what others do or what they want.

You are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's worth anything to anyone but you.

 

[lakebum431]

If you pay more than your monthly, you run a credit until the balance requires another payment. I put in enough to last about 6 months at a time.

Why? Just so you don't have to think about it? Might as well just put it on auto pay. Why give them your money early so they earn interest on it instead of you?

 

[8bitbytes]

Why? Just so you don't have to think about it? Might as well just put it on auto pay. Why give them your money early so they earn interest on it instead of you?

Did you read who I replied to? He said it was a pain to fool with paying every month.

 

[lakebum431]

Did you read who I replied to? He said it was a pain to fool with paying every month.

Yes, but I was asking why you do it. Just curious is all.