Could hackers spoil it for us?

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Technojunky said:
Why pay the high price of a Coolsat when you can buy a Lifetime Ultra for little over $120? What does the Coolsat do that the Lifetime Ultra does not?

Joe
Just got into FTA this spring, i'm still having trouble getting used to my coolsat. Kinda like a windows user getting used to a mac and needing another PC. Go with another MAC and it'll be less of a learning curve, get a cheaper Linux system and i'd need to figure out both systems. I'm a slow learner who has finally learned how to use his 522 dual PVR.

Good to hear Dish is throwing some punches at the N2 hackers. :)
 
Damn hackers are just driving up the prices for those of us that want FTA boxes with nice features that want to use them for what they were meant for.

FTA means Free To Air
NOT Free To Steal
 
I just got a FTA receiver yesterday. What's going on? Is FTA going down the drain? Sorry, I'm new and really have no idea about the goings on in the FTA world.

Also what is ECM and Nag 1 and Nag 2? And is my Pansat 3500s okay?
 
Matrix

Iceberg said:
-switch to DCII
-switch to something new (like Direct has)

BUT GET OFF OF DVB!!

Just my .02

Hi guys, I think it is hard to believe that DNET are angels who are walking over the lands, those people are multimillionaire ooops I mean Billionairs, and when they think, they think by minds of bussinessmen and Brains full of bucks, that is why I believe that DNET adminstration is the main source who is allowing their system to be hacked (unless also they are the ones who themselves the creators or the releasers of the new codes) because I think all this story of hacking and stuff like that is just not more than a pormotional issue, Simply DNET are pormoting for their packages throw the DVB world.

There are no Angels people but there is a Matrix.


Thanks
 
RussTC3 said:
I just got a FTA receiver yesterday. What's going on? Is FTA going down the drain? Sorry, I'm new and really have no idea about the goings on in the FTA world.

Also what is ECM and Nag 1 and Nag 2? And is my Pansat 3500s okay?

If you are using you FTA box for true FTA (Free To Air) you have nothing to worry about.


Now if you were wanting to use your FTA box to get Free TV from Dishnetwork then you have 2 problems.

#1. Being a low life scum who feels they steal satellite Tv instead of paying for it like 99% of people.

#2. Getting hosed by "coders" who write illegal firmware...who when they feel like it can turn your FTA box into a doorstop
 
newbiebutnotforever said:
Hi guys, I think it is hard to believe that DNET are angels who are walking over the lands, those people are multimillionaire ooops I mean Billionairs, and when they think, they think by minds of bussinessmen and Brains full of bucks, that is why I believe that DNET adminstration is the main source who is allowing their system to be hacked (unless also they are the ones who themselves the creators or the releasers of the new codes) because I think all this story of hacking and stuff like that is just not more than a pormotional issue, Simply DNET are pormoting for their packages throw the DVB world.

There are no Angels people but there is a Matrix.


Thanks

That's nonsense. Might as well say it is OK to come in and break into a house because people don't have their doors locked.

I'm going to leave my garage door wide open tomorrow before I leave for work and even put up a sign in the front yard "Please help your self". Do you think the insurance company will cover it?
 
newbiebutnotforever said:
Hi guys, I think it is hard to believe that DNET are angels who are walking over the lands, those people are multimillionaire ooops I mean Billionairs, and when they think, they think by minds of bussinessmen and Brains full of bucks, that is why I believe that DNET adminstration is the main source who is allowing their system to be hacked (unless also they are the ones who themselves the creators or the releasers of the new codes) because I think all this story of hacking and stuff like that is just not more than a pormotional issue, Simply DNET are pormoting for their packages throw the DVB world. There are no Angels people but there is a Matrix.
Thanks

I'm sorry, I must have missed your <ignorance></ignorance> tags...

For every rule, law, protection, and security there's a few million people ripping it apart and trying to hack, crack, break, or circumvent it. No matter what the medium, no matter what the consequences, it will continue. The more popular the medium, the more people working on it. I don't know how many millions of people subscribe to the Dish packages, but just judging from the thousands of little 18" pizza-pans in my town I'd guess alot. Satellite companies don't leak out code or hacks as "promotional tools" for the microscopic little niche of FTA. Commercials and channel choices do that.

Moreover, man-made code is fallibale, and eventually is often bypassed. Sometimes the only way around it is making the hardware less feasable to aquire. A great example of this is the gaming console world. When everything started changing to CD/DVD, piracy and mod-chips began spreading. Nintendo knew that the same thing would happen to them if they didn't do something. So they developed and manufactured a new version of mini-DVD for their Gamecube. While there's still some modifications that can be done, piracy isn't anywhere near as easy or rampant as on PS, PS2, or even X-Box.

I for one hope Dish and the rest go Mpeg4 ASAP. Change the hardware, and leave FTA to Mpeg2. It will then be very clear-cut; if you have an Mpeg4 device, you either subscribe or are a hacker. This will make our Mpeg2 stuff super-cheap again :yes as it will only be useful to TRUE FTA-er's.

Sorry if I sounded ranty ;) I hate this nonsense, I was watching the bottom fall out on prices and felt I'd finally own a blind scanning STB soon... not to be :no
 
CharredPC,

Good post! I like your thinking - especially the bit about "security through obscurity".
CharredPC said:
I for one hope Dish and the rest go Mpeg4 ASAP. Change the hardware, and leave FTA to Mpeg2. It will then be very clear-cut; if you have an Mpeg4 device, you either subscribe or are a hacker. This will make our Mpeg2 stuff super-cheap again :yes as it will only be useful to TRUE FTA-er's.
How likely do you think this is (seriously)? It seems that FTA equipment with mpeg4 is on the horizon. Also, if Europe and Asia are still driving FTA features and development, won't we likely see FTA move to mpeg4 over time due to the compression economies? Almost like a reprise of the rise of mpeg2?

Red
 
Everyone here crying about hackers. Hey I don't condone their actions, but everyone should ask themselves, where are all the FTA channels. Why do we not have enough in North America? You only need to look at Europe/Asian and they have tons of FTA channels. In NA the contact providers would shutdown and lucrative FTA channels. This is something we need to debate. Yes, hackers are bad, but we need more FTA channels.
 
Shawn95GT said:
I don't think you're too far fetched in thinking that. I was hanging my mesh dish on the pole this weekend and was asked if I had and if so where I got the 'black box' to unlock all the channels. Geez! I just want some c-band!
I got that from all three of my neighbors (i'm in a fairly secluded area) when i first started putting dish's up, but now they understand that my hobby is Free To Air, not Free to Steal ;-)
 
Addressing the issue of less channels here than europe, is free to air broadcast open to anyone with the money to do it? Or does government regulation shut down some of the potential FTA broadcasters? Is it too expensive to pay for with advertising revenue?
 
They can Nag2 the MPEG4 stream all they want.. there is no FTA reciever that can decode MPEG4.. It will get the bad boys and girls out of our backyard.


The question is ...... who is going to pay for the approx 14 million mpeg4 receivers that will have to be distributed to their subscribers. Certainly not the big boys and how do you tell a subscriber that he has to ante up another couple hundred dollars for the privelege of being a subscriber ????
 
I'm with you guys. I proudly pay for my Dish channels and this only ends up costing the paying customers more in the long run. I stated my opinion to change to a different encryption when MPEG4 rolls out in Scott's thread about the compromise. What better time to do it when everyone will need a new receiver anyway.
 
mk279 said:
They can Nag2 the MPEG4 stream all they want.. there is no FTA reciever that can decode MPEG4.. It will get the bad boys and girls out of our backyard.


The question is ...... who is going to pay for the approx 14 million mpeg4 receivers that will have to be distributed to their subscribers. Certainly not the big boys and how do you tell a subscriber that he has to ante up another couple hundred dollars for the privelege of being a subscriber ????

The MPEG4 conversion is going to happen, no matter what.. its just a question of when..


They should do it sooner then later, which will fix their hacking problem for at least a longer period of time then in the past.
 
Legal free to air

Hello
Rob here from ftadirect
Just a reminder that we are ONLY involved with legal free to air and do not support ANY unauthorized software. Please do not email us or call us regarding questions about N2. Im sure everyone can understand, we are getting those type of calls, so please... don't be offended because we wont answer questions about illegal software.
Use the fta receivers for their legal purpose. Simple as that and the legal software can be found on the manufactures site if needed.
Cheers!
Rob
ftadirect
1-888-994-9916
 
maddawg said:
You guys will be fooling yourself if a FTA mpeg 4 receiver is not released.

I totally agree, but you guys are missing my point ..... how many times and how often can you tell subscribers they have to swap cards and now you have to purchase a new mpeg4 receiver. Lets just say that half of DN's subscribers say "to heck with it", I'm not spending another $200 for a mpeg4 receiver. How good is that for buisness. I sub to Bell and I had to purchase a $400 receiver for the privelege of subbing the HD channels. Now I got a deal and they sold it to me for $250 with a 2 year commitment ............ OH JOY ......... Less than 3 months later they introduce a HD/DVR combo receiver for over $500. How pissed off am I ?????????? I'd rather have that one bit do you think they would take my HD receiver in trade ???????? These companies get you with overpriced programming and hardware upgrades and you wonder why people pay for gray market ????
 
This is why it is good to stay current with the news!! :) Supply and demand folks. Believe me, I had wanted to buy a 6000 for ever on ebay, but the prices were so damn high. $500 for one! But once those HD channels were swapped to N2, PLUMMET! Picked one up for $125. Same with DishPlayers. My originial unit was a 7200. After getting into HD I sold that sucker for like $250!!!! Dish had given it to me when I signed up like 5 years ago. Now you can buy a 7200 on ebay for $20. Its just the way it goes. I wish I had bought a case of FTAs a few months ago when they were trying to get rid of stock. I have no problem charging a hacker top dollar for a box hehe.

I see a lot of people on here lump "testers" and "freeTVers" in one boat. The testers, imho, are still within the old definition of a hacker. They love learning a technology, figuring it out, etc. The ones that take their knowledge, and SELL it, are gonna be getting a knock on the door some day from the feds or RCMP. Same with the freeTVers who BUY it. No clue about what N2 N1 or whatever is, they just want it for free. They dont care about the technology.

I mean, a big reason I got into satellite in the first place was the "cool" geek factor. You got this dish pointed out in the sky, and some how a RF signal is being beamed from miles away in space. So cool. Of course, like many here, I wasnt just satisfied with one dish. Research, learn, read. Hows it all work? Lyngsat,etc mmm.

Thats why I got into FTA. I actually have a use now for the 3' dish i bought way back when 105 was gonna have HD. I didnt know what I was missing. Thanks to all the helpful info on here and other sites I got it up and running, amazing whats up there. I'm now in the mode of trying to automate pointing the thing cuz its a pain to go out there and change satellites heh.

What I dont get is why Dish keeps going back to Nagra? I mean, these same cards are used throughout europe. Such a large user base means a large hacker base as well. The fact that the N2 cards had been out in europe for a year or so before dish started their swap to them was also a bad move. If they had forced Kudelski to come up with a different set of cards for Dish, I bet the swap would have worked. For now, its back to the same old N1 cat and mouse game..

Two points on the mpeg4 and dc2 suggestions. Is there a chip that will decode both N2 commands as well as dc2? If they ever changed, it might require dish to use two smartcards or chips while in transistion (cost big time $$$???) I think mpeg4 might stop the FTA physical boxes, but hackers would transition to dvb-s cards where, Im not sure, but I would think it would just require a codec to decode, since the low end cards use software decoding.

I do wonder why some people on here take it personally? I see comments like "oooh boy, i hope they hit those hackers hard!" I really dont care either way, it doesnt affect me. If Joe wants to go out there and buy an illegal hook up, oh well, thats his decision. He better be ready for the consequences (legal, no tv, wife hating him for no tv, etc). At the same time, I'm not exactly cheering for a billion dollar company who poured millions into an outdated smartcard system. I would wager the revenue lost from the hackers who would have paid instead of steal is a lot less than whatever they spent on 12 million new cards and uplink encryptors.

And with that, I step off the soapbox hehehe.
 
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