Court Order issued in TiVo vs. Echostar scheduling contempt hearing

[Jeffro34tx]

Whomever wrote the above is not in touch with reality!

I got to agree with ya!

 

[ArtWIS]

WRONG!!!!

DirecTV didn't buy a license.

They are clear because the bought ReplayTV.

ReplayTV and Tivo have patent cross licensing agreements.

That's true and I think that IF Tivo wants to sell that it would most likely be Directv that would be the buyer. That would put all the patents under one umbrella.

 

[FCom911]

...(2) with respect to EchoStar’s modified software,1 whether TiVo should be allowed permission to serve limited discovery to obtain additional technical information before bringing a motion for an order to show cause why EchoStar is not in contempt for the continuing use of the Infringing Products, changed only by downloading modified software.

The Court has set for hearing September 4, 2008 the first issue of whether EchoStar has disabled the DVR functionality with respect to the Infringing Products as required by the Court’s Permanent Injunction.2 The second issue outlined above, namely TiVo’s request to take limited discovery regarding EchoStar’s allegedly new software, is denied at this time. In the interest of judicial economy, the Court will determine first whether EchoStar should be held in contempt for its failure to disable the DVR functionality in the Infringing Products and for its placement of new infringing DVRs as urged by TiVo or whether, as urged by EchoStar, the language of the Court’s
Permanent Injunction allows EchoStar to comply with the spirit of the injunction by changing the software so that the products no longer infringe. TiVo may renew its request to serve limited discovery regarding EchoStar’s modified software after the Court’s decision on the first issue...

Thomas,

Thank you for the post and analysis...

I see no advantage handed to Dish in TiVo's dispute in the aforementioned statement. The key term here is, ' interest of judicial economy '. It implies nothing other than an attempt by the court to focus matters and NOT clutter the court's calendar.

Dish will have to muster its best position on the matter, before the court, September 4, 2008. If they are unsuccessful...

 

[uncrules]

Directv does have an agreement with Tivo that protects D* from any Tivo lawsuits.

DirecTV, TiVo extend deal

DirecTV subscribers will be able to hold onto their TiVos, under the terms of a new deal (subscription required) between the two companies. The economics of the new pact are similar to the old agreement, which was set to expire in 2007. Now, current TiVo-using DirecTV customers will continue to be supported by the satellite TV company throughout the three-year extension.

The third—and biggest—winner is DirecTV, because of a clause in the agreement which states that neither company will assert its patent rights against the other for its duration. That allows DirecTV to avoid a potentially costly and lengthy court battle, the likes of which its competitor Dish Network has found itself embroiled in.

 

[long_time_DNC]

I completely agree with you on this one.

Yep, it's the best, easiest solution. Just license the software, pay Tivo a fee and it all goes away. What's so difficult about this?

 

[Stargazer]

Directv paid the price because they knew that their boxes were infringing on the patents so that should have some type of merit in itself. I wonder if that would be brought up in court.

 

[Voyager6]

Yep, it's the best, easiest solution. Just license the software, pay Tivo a fee and it all goes away. What's so difficult about this?

How much to license the software? How big a fee does Tivo demand? It all comes down to how much $$$. What amount E* will pay and what Tivo wants may still be very far apart.

 

[long_time_DNC]

How much to license the software? How big a fee does Tivo demand? It all comes down to how much $$$. What amount E* will pay and what Tivo wants may still be very far apart.

I think that if they sat down and discussed it instead of battling it out in court, they could probably settle it fairly quickly though.

 

[mike123abc]

How much to license the software? How big a fee does Tivo demand? It all comes down to how much $$$. What amount E* will pay and what Tivo wants may still be very far apart.

I believe the quoted rate that DIRECTV and Comcast pay is $1/month/sub. Dish of course at the time did not have a DVR fee at all when this came up...

DIRECTV charged a fee (whole house one fee), Dish then decided to add a fee (per DVR), but decided their software did not infringe so the fee all went to Dish.

 

[abricko]

Tivo needs money in a BAD way. They'd take money from E* in a heartbeat (settlement and then the licensing fees) there's not a chance they'd say NO to E* regarding licensing their software. Tivo is essentially a software and service company at this point, they make NADA from their hardware.

 

[JAG72]

Directv paid the price because they knew that their boxes were infringing on the patents so that should have some type of merit in itself. I wonder if that would be brought up in court.

Are you sure they didn't pay just to keep their current Tivo systems active? Does anybody know if they pay for every DVR or just the Tivo systems.

 

[flyingsquirrel]

Every DVR. Every month. So do a couple of Cable companies.

 

[JAG72]

Every DVR. Every month. So do a couple of Cable companies.

You sure? Everything I have read makes it sound like they are only receiving the fee for the Tivo units. If you have a link to this information please post it.

 

[Hall]

Directv paid the price because they knew that their boxes were infringing on the patents so that should have some type of merit in itself. I wonder if that would be brought up in court.

Bring what up ? The fact that (for the sake of argument) their software "infringes" ? As long as they pay TiVo a licensing fee, or whatever you want to call it, it's "okay" and allowed.

 

[Tyralak]

Nope, DirecTV bought a license when this all started. They are clear. And Motorola had Tivo write the CableBox Tivo firmware, so I think they are ok also since Tivo would not sue someone they are working with to modify their boxes to be tivos.

They also own Replay now, so they're doubly in the clear.

 

[pabeader]

didn't Echostar help in the development of the DVR technology? Why would they need to pay for it? in the end, all i care is that my DVRs will still work when I get them out of storage. as long as dish does whatever it needs to to make sure of that i'm a happy consumer.

 

[jacmyoung]

...2. At the September 4 hearing, the Court will also consider the damages that TiVo incurred2
during the period that the injunction was stayed.

I don't know how you got that idea, the court order of the day for the 9/4 meeting mentioned no such thing.

I personally would like to see DISH and Tivo both cross license their patents and work together, only because they are two like minded companies both cater to the end users more so than caving into the demands of the networks and the studios, unlike cablecos and DirecTV.

But unfortunately the train has left the station a long time ago, and it is less likely today than ever DISH will talk to Tivo.

The latest court order clearly put the case on the path for a customary contempt proceeding, during which the colorable difference issue will be discussed (because all new DISH DVRs are mentioned in the order), and I have little doubt in my mind the DISH new software is more than colorably different compared to the old, infringing software, meaning DISH will not be in contempt.

Tivo will have a long way to go (another full trial) to try again to find DISH's new software still infringes, and the next trial of course will be much more difficult to prove, even if Tivo can survive the time and cost required to last through this new trial.

Because this time, unlike the last time, DISH did commit large resources for over a year to develope the new software and to ensure it no longer infringed on Tivo's patent. The new software could still infringe, but the likelihood of such will be much less than the last time, especially consider that DISH had patent lawyers seriously looked at the new software to make sure it no longer infringed before it was downloaded on the DVRs.

 

[Thomas22]

2. At the September 4 hearing, the Court will also consider the damages that TiVo incurred during the period that the injunction was stayed.

I don't know how you got that idea, the court order of the day for the 9/4 meeting mentioned no such thing.

It says it on the first page of the court order for the 9/4 hearing. You might want to read it.

 

[jacmyoung]

It says it on the first page of the court order for the 9/4 hearing. You might want to read it.

Why don't you post that "page" or provide a link, most of us don't have the know how to get that "page."

 

[Thomas22]

Why don't you post that "page" or provide a link, most of us don't have the know how to get that "page."

Here is a cut and paste from that page:

1. EchoStar asserts it has complied with the Court’s Permanent Injunction by replacing its existing infringing software with redesigned software based on a novel approach.
2. At the September 4 hearing, the Court will also consider the damages that TiVo incurred during the period that the injunction was stayed.