Court Orders Dish to Drop ALL Distant Networks

[Tom Bombadil]

This language implies that 75%-80% of Dish's DNS subs are legit. While not an outstanding number, this doesn't look like it was wanton and wholesale violation of the law. Given how many subs would like to have DNS, if they were really playing fast and loose with the regulations then the numbers would be reversed, with about 75% being not legally entitled.

 

[NightRyder]

Funny, the New York Times agrees to sell their product nationwide but the New York network stations cannot. There is no agreement between Dish Network and any of the networks to provide distant network programming.

Until WABC, WNBC, WCBS and WNYW agree to sell their programming nationwide via Dish Network or DirecTV, copyright law trumps all!

According to Dish they have agreements with all O&O stations except FOX. Besides my local newpaper doesn't have any legal right to prevent me from subscribing or reading the NY Times, that is not the case here. It is my local affiliate that objects, not the NY station.

NightRyder

 

[BobMurdoch]

Uh, just to play the role of devil's advocate...

The SHVIA has language to force a nationwide injunction if a pattern of willful abuse occurs with the copyright license. According to the judgement, the courts found that more than 20 percent of subscribers of a Dish Network-provided distant network were not legally entitled to those distant networks. That left the court to decide that the pattern of willful neglect was there.

So, Dish Network can take the blame for this. They didn't want to play by the rules, and now everyone can suffer.

OK, and what defensive measures can be implemented to try and stop the injunction? Can they hold it back by paying to take it all the way to the Supreme Court if need be?

 

[BobMurdoch]

According to Dish they have agreements with all O&O stations except FOX.

NightRyder

Which surprise, surprise is owned by the same guy who owns your sole competitor.

Where are the Antitrust guys NOW??!!???? When they OK'd Rupert's takeover of D*, was there any protections given to E* to stop anticompetitve behavior such as this? Is it really the federal governments desire to drive E* out of business and create a monopoly (which they prohibited Charlie from creating a few years ago when HE tried to take over D*?)

 

[TNGTony]

The supreme court handles constitutional maters. Unless the lawyers find a way to frame this so it becomes a constitutional issue, the Supreme Court will not hear it.

As to the CBS HD on Dish, This is not affected by this ruling. CBS and Dish have a contract which allows them to sell this copyrighted material.

Remember folks that the SHVA and its successors specifically ALLOW the redistribution of copyrighted material WITHOUT concent.

See ya
Tony

 

[BobMurdoch]

This language implies that 75%-80% of Dish's DNS subs are legit. While not an outstanding number, this doesn't look like it was wanton and wholesale violation of the law. Given how many subs would like to have DNS, if they were really playing fast and loose with the regulations then the numbers would be reversed, with about 75% being not legally entitled.

Hey, in my area 75% of the drivers drive faster than the speed limit on the Garden State Parkway. Are the feds gonna come and close the highway since they are tacitly allowing drivers to break the National Speed Limit?

I know, it is a stupid analogy, but I am f'ing p*ssed about this. When the NAB broke the laws by not adopting HDTV sooner like they were supposed to, why weren't they hit with draconian penalties......?

 

[mikew]

This language implies that 75%-80% of Dish's DNS subs are legit. While not an outstanding number, this doesn't look like it was wanton and wholesale violation of the law. Given how many subs would like to have DNS, if they were really playing fast and loose with the regulations then the numbers would be reversed, with about 75% being not legally entitled.

How could even 1% be allowed? If even one sub can get DNS illegally, then something is wrong with the system Dish chose to implement. Look at the "snafu" on their web DNS qualification system that allowed users to add all four distant cities. A revenue stream for them and completely against SHIVRA. While I feel for the subs who will be affected, to have Charlie's lawyers throw up the newspaper argument is ridiculous. Newspapers create their own content. They have the right to distribute that content as they see fit. If they are using national sources, then they paid for the rights to publish and distribute the story. Dish was given a set of rules to follow, and they didn't.

Besides...how many markets are out there now that don't have LIL? Once everybody gets used to their own markets, this won't be a big deal.

 

[waltinvt]

Why? Dish isn't the one using the Federal Government and court system to maintain an antiquated monopoly. Dish is right, if I can choose to subscribe to a NY newspaper instead of a local one then I should be able to watch a NY network station. The NAB has corrupted the system and until congress has the balls to stand up to them the consumer will get shafted.


NightRyder

I hear ya and it sucks but I sincerly doubt congress will be telling the NAB anything over the next 6 months preceeding a major election.

Right now the NAB and their collective affiliates OWN congress.

 

[BobMurdoch]

Many newspapers use primarily Associated Press articles with a few homegrown articles, similar to the TV stattions. I don't see what is different.....

 

[Greg Bimson]

According to Dish they have agreements with all O&O stations except FOX.

Because Dish Network settled with the network-owned station groups during this lawsuit. However, that was not because the network-owned station groups said that Dish Network could sell whatever they wanted. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall that when ABC pulled out of the lawsuit, Dish Network requalified all ABC subs in O&O markets.

Besides my local newpaper doesn't have any legal right to prevent me from subscribing or reading the NY Times, that is not the case here. It is my local affiliate that objects, not the NY station.

HOWEVER, Dish Network is given a government-granted license to distribute the New York stations which exempts copyright law, but only to those that had no way of receiving the stations with an antenna. This isn't WABC, WCBS, WNBC and WNYW choosing to sell their programming nationwide. Dish Network could pickup any station in the US an sell it without a contract, provided they followed the law. Without the law, no distant networks, because there are no contracts with Dish Network to redistribute the New York (or any) network affilates nationally.

 

[BobMurdoch]

Besides...how many markets are out there now that don't have LIL? Once everybody gets used to their own markets, this won't be a big deal.

I couldn't disagree more. Flexible timeshifting (what are you going to do if network programmers decide to pull a stunt like last Sunday..... Season Finales of Desperate Housewives and The Simpsons, a mega miniseries, 10.5 Apocalypse, the Sopranos, Iron Chef America......

If it weren't for Distant Nets I'd miss a few of these. The Sopranos can timeshift as can Iron Chef America, but I'm SOL if I wanted to see the other 3. THIS way I can watch all of them and the commercials... With their brilliant plan, I'm, supposed to just blow off the others. It's funny, you would think they would be interested in increasing the number of viewers for shows at the national level.

 

[Curtis0620]

I have 3 dual tuner DVR's. No problem with conflicts.

 

[mikew]

Local stations purchase their network programming with the contractual understanding that they have the exclusive rights to the programming in their market. The revenues they receive from advertisers is based on the idea that, if a viewer wants to see American Idol, the only place they can go is the local affiliate. If their viewer base is diluted with folks who can view the programming from another source, the advertisers will be less likely to pay for their ad that should be placed on the exclusive station.

Most local newspapers have a larger balance of local coverage vs. AP coverage. Local advertisers see a value in placing their ads based on the understanding that there will be original content that you won't find in the New York Times.

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to have the ability to watch programming from different parts of the country. I used to have distants. I've now done without distants for four years. Back in the "good 'ol days", programming varied from one area to the next. Nowadays...there is a limited amount of syndicated programming that is shown in all markets. Aside from the issue of local stations pre-empting network programming, distants aren't what they used to be.

 

[NightRyder]

I couldn't disagree more. Flexible timeshifting (what are you going to do if network programmers decide to pull a stunt like last Sunday..... Season Finales of Desperate Housewives and The Simpsons, a mega miniseries, 10.5 Apocalypse, the Sopranos, Iron Chef America......

If it weren't for Distant Nets I'd miss a few of these. The Sopranos can timeshift as can Iron Chef America, but I'm SOL if I wanted to see the other 3. THIS way I can watch all of them and the commercials... With their brilliant plan, I'm, supposed to just blow off the others. It's funny, you would think they would be interested in increasing the number of viewers for shows at the national level.

I think it's pretty clear that the networks don't really care where or how you watch their shows, just so long as you do. It's their affiliates and their collective clout through the NAB that screws the consumer and limits our choice.


NightRyder

 

[Lucky]

I am a little confused here. Does this banning getting distant locals even if you have a waiver ? If you have a waiver from say your local ABC or NBC station will you still be able to get a distant local from those networks ?

 

[mikew]

If the "NATIONAL PERMANENT INJUNCTION" happens, waivers won't matter. Dish will be required to discontinue DNS to all subs (waivers/grandfathered/legal or illegal).

 

[NightRyder]

The revenues they receive from advertisers is based on the idea that, if a viewer wants to see American Idol, the only place they can go is the local affiliate. If their viewer base is diluted with folks who can view the programming from another source, the advertisers will be less likely to pay for their ad that should be placed on the exclusive station.

Who watches commercials?


NightRyder

 

[directvfreak]

What is the massage for distants at 800-333-dish?

 

[Lucky]

If the "NATIONAL PERMANENT INJUNCTION" happens, waivers won't matter. Dish will be required to discontinue DNS to all subs (waivers/grandfathered/legal or illegal).

Okay, thanks for the response. What is the chances that the National Permanent Injunction will be granted ? And when will it happen ?

 

[mikew]

Who watches commercials?


NightRyder

The only time I see them is when my wife falls asleep with the remote.