Deceptive and Nonresponsive DirecTV

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Please reply by conversation.

Happy Camper

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Jul 20, 2005
264
0
Central Texas
We are charter premiere package DirecTV subscribers with three HR21s and one HR10. As a result of the excellent posts and discussions here concerning DirecTV's "service Commitment" policies and early cancellation fees, we decided to email DirecTV and ask several questions:

1. Did we have a commitment?

2. What was it if we had one?

3. If we had a claimed commitment, what would be the cancellation fee?

4. Was it true what we had heard that they charged a two year commitment even if the activated receiver was a REPLACEMENT UNDER THE REPAIR PLAN?

They answered promptly that we did have a commitment, they cited the date, and said we'd owe $20 per month if we cancelled before the end of the commitment. They absolutely DID NOT answer question number 4, maybe because the dates and commitments they were claiming resulted from activating a receiver DirecTV had sent us under the repair plan to replace a defective receiver we had had for over two years before that.

So, we replied to THAT answer and asked "But the date you claim we activated a 'new' receiver' was in fact a replacement receiver under the service plan-do you still claim that 'commitment?'"

Interesting that DirecTV has not responded to that inquiry. So, I called DirecTV and got shuffled around with a bunch of gobbledy-gook, never got an answer, and hung up after being cut off once, redialing, and then being transferred twice before being put on hold over ten minutes.

We recently had received a Triple Play solicitation from Verizon FIOS which gave us a price on combined phone, internet and TV service which was less than we were already paying for just FIOS phone and internet, and it upped our internet speed to 25/15 and gave us free long distance. So we had the three services installed, and put the FIOS receiver in my upstairs man cave retreat, figuring that we saved money even if we never watched the FIOS TV. I did not put everything on the FIOS TV service but I got extreme HD and they give you HBO free for three months. My intent was to evaluate the FIOS service and to decide if we should cancel DirecTV and save well over $100 per month on combined services with everything from FIOS.

My appraisal of the FIOS TV service was that the quality of sound and picture was superb, and better than DirecTV, but that the FIOS DVR, onscreen menus and general utility were so completely awful that the only way we could tolerate FIOS TV would be to get high def TiVo boxes and cable cards, which we'd prefer not to have to buy. We'd also need TiVo programmable remote capabilities to fit the boxes into our whole house, RF repeater video system (with FIOS, one and only one available remote code would control all the boxes in the house-does not work for us)

However, this false, misleading, deceptive and nonresponsive service commitment and cancellation fee policy of DirecTV is SO irritating to us that we may just cancel DirecTV, go through the brain damage of fighting them, and have to pay for new TiVo boxes on top of that. In the short term, it will cost us, but it would ammortize in a little over a year.

Sometimes principle is worth paying a little more for, I'm thinking. We figure the DirecTV boxes are unreliable enough that if you had four of them, you'd replace at least one every two years and be in claimed indentured servitude to DirecTV forever, for life. This just made us mad.

So, for now, this Camper is not "Happy" with DirecTV. I really have no complaint about the actual service from DirecTV other than it blanking out in our fairly frequent North Central Texas thunderstorms, and it's expensive. I have even come to prefer the HR21 over the TiVo software, which I thought I never would (not my wife however-she loves TiVo, hates D* software). But, D*'s policies are so repugnant we'll probably leave DirecTV, even if we might be cutting off our noses for everyday TV service and hardware quality-D's hardware is excellent and FIOS's hardware and crappy software combined are miserable beyond description here.

That's the story. Sorry for the length, but I wanted to give you the full flavor of this Camper's dissappointment with D*. Interesting thing is that we'd have NEVER HAD A CLUE about D*'s policy and claims except for the great info you all put on these forums. They do not advertise nor overtly claim these 'commitments' and let you just keep on incurring them forever if you do not ask. Thanks for giving us the knowledge to protest and protect ourselves from these DirecTV jerks.

Respectfully submitted,
The Camper
 
I be more then happy to figure out what is going on and tell you how to fight it. Also if your leaving fo fios I would not mine buying any owned equipment. DTV does not give employees breaks on hardware just on programing.
 
to the op, directv hasn't had a problem telling me that i am out of contract as it expired in june. nor have they had a problem telling me my contractual obligation didn't change everytime i had to replace a defective unit.
 
The Verizon Triple Play has a 2-year commitment and early termination fee just like Directv, correct?
 
The Verizon Triple Play has a 2-year commitment and early termination fee just like Directv, correct?

The commitment might be 1 year but when it expires you have to renew the commitment to continue the service. I believe the ETF is a set rate of $179.
 
You are correct-we have a one year commitment, but the way it worked for us is that we thought of it as locking in a significant price reduction for service we already had, which may be a different circumstance than it is for many. If, at the end of the year, we do not like the TV, we can dump it, but our cost would go up again, I think, so why would we if we want to keep the superior internet and good phone service?

The triple play promotion we were offered was for existing customers, and the commitment is for one year. We already have FIOS internet and FIOS telephones, and Verizon Blackberries, etc., and we have had Verizon service since it became Verizon from GTE. We were the second neighborhood in the country to be wired for FIOS (after Keller) and we've had it ever since (did not get the TV then because of clunky boxes and crappy interface-still the case). So, we really did not worry about the FIOS commitment, the commitment was not stealthy, and the commitment does not apply to replaced equipment. And, NOTHING you do except calling up to extend your service can extend your commitment, on purpose or by stealth. If you need a new box, you get one, and it does not come with a two year commitment. What are the odds nowadays that if you have four boxes from ANYONE that one of them at least will fail within a two year period? We just think that the way DirecTV does their commitments is different, misleading, deceptive and unfair. That's our opinion-you are almost guaranteed contractual servitude.

When we added the FIOS TV, our monthly cost dropped $48 per month for six months, and $28 per month for the remainder of the commitment, six more months. If we never watched TV and never connected the TV at all, we saved money, and we have 25/15 internet speed (we actually GET about 26/20)and good phone service with unlimited domestic long distance. Since we had no intention whatsoever of cancelling FIOS internet or phone service, we looked at the deal as a chance to try out the TV for free, actually to get paid to try it out.

There are a lot of good things about D*, and if D* and FIOS TV were the same cost with the same contractual terms, I'd keep DirecTV and the decision would be easy-this thread is not the right place to set out how incredibly bad the FIOS HD DVR and interface is, but it's so bad it might be worth a lot of extra bucks to keep DirecTV.

We just don't like being involuntarily put in contract prison, even if we originally had no plan to quit D*. If you keep it for the rest of your life, it would not matter until those D* jerks tried to charge your estate a $200 cancellation fee because three of their boxes had failed and they sent you new ones. It's not so much that we want to leave D*, it's that we are furious that these jerks are essentially telling us we cannot leave without penalty despite very long subscriber service (something like thirteen or fourteen years, I think).

So, being furious with D* has consequences, even though we save money by leaving them in the not so long run. The worst adverse consequence is that to keeping FIOS TV with FIOS boxes as our only source of TV would probably result in my suicide after months of enduring their mind numbingly bad, and dumb, interface. The only way I can see to make FIOS competitive with D* for primary use is to get TiVo boxes with cable cards to interface with the excellent FIOS signal and now competitive channel selections.

Presently, we have D* and FIOS, and we're paying less for everything, even with redundant TV, than we were before. If we quit D*, we save a lot, eventually, but we get a worse product unless we buy our own boxes.

I'm not advocating that everyone quit D*. I'm just saying that we are so mad at their attitudes that we do not want to do business with them, and we're willing to endure some cost and inconvenience to punt D* out the door.
 
Camper.

Thanks for the FIOS info. I'm in Irving and have had FIOS phone & net svc for about a year. I'm on the 20/5 net speed plan. I didn't sign up for FIOS TV since I have DTV but your info on the bundle price gets me to thinking about calling Verizon and adding TV svc even, as you said. I won't use it for a while. If this Vs/DTV fight drags on, I can get Vs with FIOS TV down the road. My 1-yr net/phone contract will expire in January.
 
Scoop: We had an oddball package of phone and fast internet, leftover from selling a company a long time ago and keeping internet and residential phone service without really thinking about what we had or rebargaining for the best deal. Monthly, it was over $140.

We went for the one year triple play, improved the phone by adding long distance, upped our internet speed slightly to 25/15 (but we are getting 26/20 consistently), got FIOS TV with an HD DVR, Extreme HD, and free three month trial HBO/Cinemax for just over $100. (it adds something like $22 a month if we keep the HBO-we will not until we cancel D* and reconfigure all the TV)

I think we might have gotten some of this because I called up and told them they had been sending a torrent of conflicting and often confusing offers, and I just had some questions. I told them we wanted to try the TV, but their package with slow internet, basic TV and Freedom phone just would not do-I wanted to try the HD and HD DVR, and we needed fast internet and the same phone.

It was more like giving them a shopping list-phone, high speed internet and TV with HD DVR and HD channels and challenging them for a deal (for trial purposes I did not give a rip about movies, premiums, etc.-on DirecTV we have everything but porn).

I'd just call them and try to bargain some. I'm not sure what their authority is, but there seem to be a lot of "packages" they have that they do not advertise anywhere. What we actually got was a "package" which definitely did not appear in any of the ads filling up our mailbox every month. Not even close.

With what you have with D*, you will not like the FIOS DVR, menu or interface at all, but the signal rocks, no HD lite, no pixel loss, and no blackout in one of our thunderstorms. As best I can tell, FIOS has no 1080p, but what we are getting is terrific. Without buying our own TiVo boxes with FIOS provided cable cards, it will break my heart to switch from D* to FIOS, sort of like going from driving a Porsche to an old golf cart. The FIOS interface is so bad you'll wonder what those nerds out in Irving do all day. What they do not do is think up competitive products in the DVR dept. You may want to try them before you dump your D*. I thought Verizon's boxes would be bad, but it's much worse than you can imagine. Going from an HR21 downstairs up to a Verizon HD DVR upstairs just makes me crazy. With Verizon, I just sit there and say "What the F is this?" It's hard to believe the same corporation which gives such superior worldwide Blackberry service could put out such a crappy product with otherwise great TV. I think they spent all their money on infrastructure and hooking people up and then sold their souls to a devil Motorola salesperson with obsolete bargain technology. Seriously, you will at least reconsider when you see how bad it is.

Long term, if we dump D*, keep FIOS TV, get all the channels they have, get four of their HD DVRS and keep phone and internet the same, it will be about $213 a month, I think, but that saves about $100 a month from having had a stupid jumble of FIOS internet and phone with D* service including (that we neither bargained for or thought out this combo), the premier package, HD, four boxes and the service plan. I'll have to buy my own HD TiVos or go crazy.

Verizon gets our business by being competitive on the BUNDLE. If it were just TV, I'd stay with D* even though we think they are slimeballs. Verizon TV alone, compared apples to apples, is just not competitive yet. You have to bundle, save money and hate D* to switch to FIOS TV. You'll long to unleash one of your HR22s after you look at what FIOS gives you.

Respectfully,
The Camper

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Commitment removed

Many thanks to Scott and everyone for valuable advice and email addresses! I used all the weapons and got the bogus service commitment removed! Magic.

While it is not D*'s "policy" to charge for a replacement unit under the repair plan, I have received numerous replies and emails to the effect that D* routinely does it-e.g. makes a convenient "mistake" when new receivers are activated under the repair plan and activates the service commitment, requiring the unwitting consumer to jump through hoops to get it removed.

Fortunately, you all have advice which eliminates some of the hoops. This whole thing has left me with a bad taste in my mouth from DirecTV, but good feelings about the support from members here.

Many thanks for the help!

What in the heck has happened at D*? It seems they are going out of their way to irritate long term customers.

Respectfully,
The Camper
 
What in the heck has happened at D*? It seems they are going out of their way to irritate long term customers.

Respectfully,
The Camper

Just out of curiosity, I emailed Directv to learn about my commitment period. I knew it's almost 2 years because we recently added another HD-DVR but I wanted to see how they handled the request. We've been customers for over 10 years and have had no problems with them. I merely asked when my commitment was up.

I got a timely reply notifying me of when my commitment period was up and they gave me a "loyal customer" perk of 3 free months of Showtime, even though they had already given me a "10-year customer" perk of monthly credits. Perhaps they were concerned I would jump ship (although I never gave that indication), but it was still a nice gesture for someone who's been with them for a decade.
 
Funny, after reading this, I did the same thing (i.e. email and ask about our commitment, if any) just to see what they would say. We are also ten-year-plus customers with DirecTV, always at the highest package. We have never had DirecTV install ANYTHING for us, after a VERY bad installer experience with original service, back in early 1999.

So, I emailed DirecTV with all my account info and asked them, very nicely, if we had a commitment. The last receiver we added was in April 2007, so I expected them to say no. Instead, I received a response that we were committed through 10/2010 due to an "upgrade install" from an owned to leased receiver. They also claimed I "signed a contract at time of install" that said I understood this. I wrote back saying exactly what I did above: We have never had them install ANYTHING, we haven't added a receiver since 2007 and I never signed anything. They just wrote back saying the same thing: That they had a "signed contract" from a "2008 upgrade install." I asked them to provide me "proof" of this signed contract, which I know full well doesn't exist.

I've been very unhappy with DirecTV, for a very long time, but this is just beyond the pale. What an incredibly shady company!!
 
Man all of these stories of D* saying you signed up for a new contract is just plain wrong. It's pretty comparable to a women coming out of the blue claiming you have kids together when you know damn well you never had sex with her. Probably bad example but that's what this whole D* automatic 2yr commitment thing sounds like.

I hope my receiver stays healthy..I have a HR-23 with my fingers crossed with 2yrs to go.
 
After a series of back and forth emails with DirecTV--in each one they claimed a different reason for my alleged "commitment," refusing/ignoring all of my requests to provide documentation--I received one this morning that cut and pasted several form letters (including a "PS: it's football season" promo at the bottom) saying (if it's not in quotes, I'm paraphrasing) I'm 1) committed to them until 10/2010--they don't have to prove it, I just am and 2) I'm saving "significant money" by "leasing" my equipment through them and 3) "DirecTV considers this matter closed." I wrote them back to tell them I feel the same way about the account I've had for 11 years. And if they try to charge me I'll contest the charge, cancel the credit card and do whatever else I have to do; but they won't see another dime.

I realize that's probably a gripe for another thread, but the lease B.S. is another MAJOR problem I have with DirecTV. I paid the same amount for my "leased" receiver as I did for my "owned" units (so, "saving significantly" my a$$) PLUS DirecTV changed ALL my equipment to read as "leased" about a year ago. I wrote and wrote and called and called but nothing ever happened. In fact I was told, several times, that it was a "service" because DirecTV will replace "leased" equipment free of charge. When I told them I didn't want that because they insist on "installing" things, and I don't want ANYONE from DirecTV touching my system, they made up another reason why it happened. (Don't remember them all but one was that if you add one receiver they consider "leased" they are all now leased.)
 
There are several issues in your story which have appeared far more often over the past six months:

1. DirecTV's false, misleading and deceptive acts and trade practices with respect to customer commitments, owned receivers and cancellation fees.

2. The fact that "leasing" equipment did not and does not save customers anything.

3. That DirecTV is seldom able to document anything they claim in support of supposed "commitments" or "owned vs. leased equipment." Instead, they claim some fine print in some customer agreement that you never saw or signed which "automatically obligated" you.

4. DirecTV's crappy install service and often unqualified Mastec subcontractors.

5. DirecTV's crappy customer service, arrogant attitude and often unresponsive answers to any question you might have.

Despite the crummy DVRs and clunky interface, we are switching everything over to Verizon FIOS. We lower cost, get better service, have a clear, stated up front "commitment" which we regard as good for us, since it guarantees a low price and savings for the period, we get a clearer signal and uncompressed HD, and installs from pretty well trained, english speaking actual employees of Verizon, and, finally, the satisfaction of telling DirecTV to go away, forever.
 
Ask and you shall recieve

Basically they are all at directv.com/agreements in full size text

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You must contact us within 60 days of receiving the statement in question. Undisputed portions of the statement must be paid by the due date to avoid a late fee and possible reduction or deactivation of Service.

Remember, if your bill for DIRECTV Service comes from a party other than DIRECTV, please use the contact information on your bill.

(f) Consents Regarding Credit. In order to establish an account with us, you authorize us to inquire into your creditworthiness (subject to Section 6), by checking with credit reporting agencies. If you are delinquent in any payment to us, you also authorize us to report any late payment or nonpayment to credit reporting agencies. Due to the subjective nature of creditworthiness, we reserve the right to require prepayment for any Service via cashier's check, money order or credit card, notwithstanding your credit rating, past history or practice.

(g) Collection Costs. To the extent permitted by law, you will pay us any costs and fees we reasonably incur to collect amounts you owe us.

3. CUSTOMER INFORMATION
(a) Representations. You represent that you are at least 18 years of age and a resident of the United States.

(b) Contact Information. You agree to provide true, accurate, current and complete contact information about yourself, and maintain and promptly update your contact information to keep it true, accurate, and complete.

(c) Online Access. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of the password and account e-mail address used for online billing and account maintenance at directv.com, and are fully responsible for all activities that occur under your password and account. You agree to: (i) keep your e-mail address and password confidential and not share them with anyone else; (ii) immediately notify DIRECTV of any unauthorized use of your password and account or other breach of security and (iii) use only your e-mail address and password to log into directv.com.

4. CHANGES IN CONTRACT TERMS
We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions on which we offer Service. If we make any such changes, we will send you a copy of your new Customer Agreement containing its effective date. You always have the right to cancel your Service, in whole or in part, at any time, and you may do so if you do not accept any such changed terms or conditions. See Sections 5(b), (d) and (e) below. If you elect not to cancel your Service after receiving a new Customer Agreement, your continued receipt of Service constitutes acceptance of the changed terms and conditions. If you notify us that you do not accept such terms and conditions, then we may cancel your Service as provided in Section 5, as we cannot offer Service to different customers on different terms, among other reasons.

5. CANCELLATION
(a) Term. The term of this Agreement is indefinite and Service will continue until canceled as provided herein. UNLESS YOU NOTIFY US THAT YOU WISH TO CANCEL IT, WE WILL AUTOMATICALLY RENEW SERVICE THAT YOU SUBSCRIBE TO ON A PERIODIC BASIS, INCLUDING ANY MONTHLY OR ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTIONS AND SEASONAL SPORTS SUBSCRIPTIONS, AS LONG AS WE CONTINUE TO CARRY THE SERVICE.

(b) Your Cancellation. You may cancel Service by notifying us. You may be charged a deactivation fee as described in Section 2 and issued a credit as described below. Your notice is effective on the day we receive it. You will still be responsible for payment of all outstanding balances accrued through that effective date. In addition to any deactivation or change of service fees provided in Section 2, if you cancel Service or change your Service package, you may be subject to an early cancellation fee if you entered into a programming agreement with DIRECTV in connection with the Equipment Lease Addendum, and have failed to maintain the required programming package for the required period of time.

For Services sold only in blocks of one month or multiples of one month, if you cancel such Service, we will credit you only for full months not used. For example, if you subscribe for a year of such Service from January through December but cancel on March 10, we will credit you for the subscription fees for April through December. However, we will not credit any fees for January through March. Additionally, we will not credit seasonal sports subscriptions after the season starts.

(c) Our Cancellation. We may cancel your Service at any time if you fail to pay amounts owing to us when due, subject to any grace periods, breach any other material provision of this Agreement, or act abusively toward our staff. In such case, you will still be responsible for payment of all outstanding balances accrued through that effective date, including the deactivation fee described in Section 2. In addition, we may cancel your Service if you elect not to accept any changed terms described to you, as provided in Section 4.

(d) Credit Balances. When your account is closed, we will review your account and refund any excess monetary payments. Unused portions of retention or similar credits will not be refunded. If your credit balance is less than $1.00 we will not issue you a refund unless you make a written request for the refund. If you do not make such a written request for the refund within one year of the close of your account, you forfeit any credit balance remaining on your account and your account balance will be reset to zero.

(e) Payment Upon Cancellation. You acknowledge that you have provided your credit or debit card account information to us. You understand that you will incur fees and charges as a result of your receipt and use of Service and/or Receiving Equipment, and may incur early cancellation fees and/or equipment non-return fees (as specified in any lease, programming or other service commitment agreement you entered into in connection with obtaining Receiving Equipment). By giving us your credit or debit card account information, you authorize us to apply this method of payment, in accordance with applicable law, to satisfy any and all amounts due upon cancellation. You further acknowledge that you are required to maintain current credit or debit card information with us and agree to notify us whenever there is a change in such information, such as a change in the card number or the expiration date.

6. PERSONAL DATA
We collect Personally Identifiable Information about our customers (Personal Data). The use and disclosure of this Personal Data is governed by our Privacy Policy and, to the extent not inconsistent with the Privacy Policy, by this Agreement. A copy of our Privacy Policy is available at directv.com. We will also send you a copy if you send your written request to this address: DIRECTV Privacy Policy, P.O. Box 6550, Greenwood Village, CO 80155-6550.

7. DIRECTV® DVR SERVICE
DIRECTV DVR Service is a separately sold service, at our rates in effect at the time, available to customers with DVR-enabled Receiving Equipment. DIRECTV DVR Service gives you the ability to see and record televised programs (Third Party Content). You understand that DIRECTV does not guarantee the access to or recording of any particular program, or the length of time any particular recorded program may remain available for your viewing. You also understand that Third Party Content is the copyrighted material of the third party that supplies it, is protected by copyright and other applicable laws, and may not be reproduced, published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the written permission of the third party that supplied it, except to the extent allowed under the fair use provisions of the U.S. copyright laws or comparable provisions of foreign laws. You agree that DIRECTV will have no liability to you, or anyone else who uses your DIRECTV DVR Service, with regard to any Third Party Content. DIRECTV may, at its discretion, from time to time change, add or remove features of the DIRECTV DVR Service, or change the service fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.

We generally use local telephone calls to provide the DIRECTV DVR Service. You are responsible for such telephone charges and acknowledge and agree that you shall be solely responsible for all disputes with any telephone company related to the same.

If you paid a lifetime service fee, you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.

By receiving the DIRECTV DVR Service, you agree to the following license. The term "Software" shall include any updates, modified versions, additions and copies of certain software for the DIRECTV DVR Service (or your Receiving Equipment) that may be provided by DIRECTV from time to time. The term "End User Documentation" shall mean the documentation and related explanatory written materials provided to you in connection with licensing by you of any Software. DIRECTV grants to you a non-exclusive license to use the Software, provided that you agree to the following:

(a) License Grant. You may use the Software solely in executable code form and solely in conjunction with the use of your Receiving Equipment.

(b) Restrictions. You may not copy, modify, transfer, disseminate or publish the Software, or any copy thereof, in whole or in part. You may not reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or translate the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code of the Software, except to the extent allowed under any applicable law. Any attempt to transfer any of the rights, duties or obligations of this license agreement is void. You may not rent, lease, load, resell for profit or distribute the Software, or any part thereof.

(c) Ownership. The Software is licensed, not sold, to you solely for your use under the terms of this license agreement, and DIRECTV and its suppliers reserve all rights not expressly granted to you. You shall own the media, if any, on which Software or End User Documentation is recorded, but DIRECTV and its suppliers retain ownership of all copies of the Software itself.

(d) Reservation of Rights. Except as stated above, this license agreement does not grant to you any intellectual property rights in the Software.

(e) Term. If you breach any term or condition of this license agreement, this license agreement will terminate immediately upon notice to you.

(f) Warranty Disclaimer. NEITHER DIRECTV NOR ANY OF ITS REPRESENTATIVES MAKES OR PASSES ON TO YOU OR OTHER THIRD PARTIES ANY WARRANTY OR REPRESENTATION ON BEHALF OF DIRECTV OR ITS SUPPLIERS (INCLUDING TIVO) WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS.

(g) Limitation of Liability. IN NO EVENT WILL DIRECTV OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFITS OR LOST SAVINGS, EVEN IF DIRECTV OR ITS SUPPLIERS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, OR FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY THIRD PARTY. Some states or jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental, consequential or special damages, so the above limitations may not apply to you.

(h) Third-Party Beneficiary. DIRECTV and you expressly acknowledge and agree that TiVo, Inc., a Delaware corporation with its principal place of business at 2160 Gold Street , Alviso , CA 95002 , is an intended third-party beneficiary of this license agreement as it relates to TiVo Software that may be contained in the Receiving Equipment. These license provisions are made expressly for the benefit of TiVo and are enforceable by TiVo in addition to DIRECTV.

8. LIMITS ON OUR RESPONSIBILITY
(a) Service Interruptions. Service may be interrupted from time to time for a variety of reasons. We are not responsible for any interruptions of Service that occur due to acts of God, power failure or any other cause beyond our reasonable control. However, because we value our customers, for an interruption of a significant length of time that is within our reasonable control, upon your request we will provide what we reasonably determine to be a fair and equitable adjustment to your account to make up for such Service interruption. THIS WILL BE YOUR SOLE REMEDY AND OUR SOLE DUTY IN SUCH CASES.

(b) Disclaimers. EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED HEREIN, WE MAKE NO WARRANTY OR REPRESENTATION, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, REGARDING ANY SERVICE OR YOUR RECEIVING EQUIPMENT. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES OR REPRESENTATIONS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT ARE DISCLAIMED.

(c) Limitations of Liability. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES RELATING TO THE RECEIVING EQUIPMENT OR ANY SERVICE, WHETHER BASED ON NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE. REGARDLESS OF THE CAUSE, OUR TOTAL LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES OR LOSSES TO YOU AND ANY OTHER PERSONS RECEIVING OUR SERVICE WILL IN NO EVENT EXCEED THE AMOUNT THAT YOU HAVE PAID TO US FOR THE SERVICE THAT YOU RECEIVED DURING THE SIX (6) MONTH PERIOD IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO THE SPECIFIC EVENT THAT GAVE RISE TO THE APPLICABLE DAMAGE OR LOSS. THIS ALLOCATION OF RISK IS REFLECTED IN OUR PRICES. You may have greater rights than described above under your state's laws. You should consult them.

(d) Warranty Services. You agree that this Agreement does not provide for, and the Service does not include, any warranty services or other services that we might provide separately, including, without limitation, any fee-based or other warranty programs.

9. RESOLVING DISPUTES
In order to expedite and control the cost of disputes, you and we agree that any legal or equitable claim relating to this Agreement, any addendum, or your Service (referred to as a "Claim") will be resolved as follows:

(a) Informal Resolution. We will first try to resolve any Claim informally. Accordingly, neither of us may start a formal proceeding (except for Claims described in Section 9(d) below) for at least 60 days after one of us notifies the other of a Claim in writing. You will send your notice to the address on the first page of this Agreement, and we will send our notice to your billing address.

(b) Formal Resolution. Except as provided in Section 9(d), if we cannot resolve a Claim informally, any Claim either of us asserts will be resolved only by binding arbitration. The arbitration will be conducted under the rules of JAMS that are in effect at the time the arbitration is initiated (referred to as the "JAMS Rules") and under the rules set forth in this Agreement. If there is a conflict between JAMS Rules and the rules set forth in this Agreement, the rules set forth in this Agreement will govern. ARBITRATION MEANS THAT YOU WAIVE YOUR RIGHT TO A JURY TRIAL. You may, in arbitration, seek any and all remedies otherwise available to you pursuant to your state's law. If you decide to initiate arbitration, you agree to tell us in writing the amount that you would pay to file a lawsuit against us in the appropriate court of law in your state. Unless we agree to pay your fee for you, you only need to pay an arbitration initiation fee equal to such court filing fee, not to exceed $125; we agree to pay any additional fee or deposit required by JAMS to initiate your arbitration. We also agree to pay the costs of the arbitration proceeding. Other fees, such as attorney's fees and expenses of travel to the arbitration, will be paid in accordance with JAMS Rules. The arbitration will be held at a location in your hometown area unless you and we both agree to another location or telephonic arbitration. To start an arbitration, you or we must do the following things:

(1) Write a Demand for Arbitration. The demand must include a description of the Claim and the amount of damages sought to be recovered. You can find a copy of a Demand for Arbitration at jamsadr.com.

(2) Send three copies of the Demand for Arbitration, plus the appropriate filing fee to:

JAMS
500 North State College Blvd., Suite 600
Orange, CA 92868
1-800-352-5267


(3) Send one copy of the demand for arbitration to the other party.

(c) Special Rules. (i) In the arbitration proceeding, the arbitrator has no authority to make errors of law, and any award may be challenged if the arbitrator does so. Otherwise, the arbitrator's decision is final and binding on all parties and may be enforced in any federal or state court that has jurisdiction. (ii) Neither you nor we shall be entitled to join or consolidate claims in arbitration by or against other individuals or entities, or arbitrate any claim as a representative member of a class or in a private attorney general capacity. Accordingly, you and we agree that the JAMS Class Action Procedures do not apply to our arbitration. If, however, the law of your state would find this agreement to dispense with class arbitration procedures unenforceable, then this entire Section 9 is unenforceable .

(d) Exceptions. Notwithstanding the foregoing: (i) any Claim based on Section 1(h) above, and (ii) any dispute involving a violation of the Communications Act of 1934, 47 U.S.C. §§ 605, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. § 1201, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521, or any other statement or law governing theft of service, may be decided only by a court of competent jurisdiction.

10. MISCELLANEOUS
(a) Notice. Notices to you will be deemed given when personally delivered, addressed to you at your last known address and deposited in the U.S. Mail (which may include inclusion in your billing statement), or sent via Internet to the e-mail address you provided us or sent via satellite to your receiver or delivered when a voice message is left at the telephone number on your account. Your notices to us will be deemed given when we receive them at the address or telephone number on the first page of this Agreement.

(b) Applicable Law. The interpretation and enforcement of this Agreement shall be governed by the rules and regulations of the Federal Communications Commission, other applicable federal laws, and the laws of the state and local area where Service is provided to you. This Agreement is subject to modification if required by such laws. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Section 9 shall be governed by the Federal Arbitration Act.

(c) Assignment of Account. We may assign your account or this Agreement and all rights and/or obligations hereunder to any third party without notice for any purpose, including, without limitation, collection of unpaid amounts, or in the event of an acquisition, corporate reorganization, merger or sale of substantially all of the party's assets to another entity. You hereby consent to such assignment. You must continue making all required payments to us in accordance with your billing statement, unless notified otherwise.

(d) Other. This Agreement and any lease, activation, programming, or other service commitment agreement that you entered into in connection with obtaining Receiving Equipment constitute our entire agreement. No salesperson or other representative is authorized to change it. If any provision is declared by a competent authority to be invalid, that provision will be deleted or modified to the extent necessary, and the rest of the Agreement will remain enforceable. The terms of this Agreement that expressly or by their nature survive termination shall continue thereafter until fully performed.

THANK YOU.

©2009 DIRECTV, Inc. DIRECTV and the Cyclone Design logo are registered trademarks of DIRECTV, Inc. 02/09 27302CSS-4


Directv Lease Equipment Admendium

Thank you for choosing DIRECTV. By signing this Equipment Lease Addendum, you agree to abide by the following terms and conditions. You wish to lease from DIRECTV, and DIRECTV is willing to lease to you, one or more DIRECTV new or reconditioned receivers, hereinafter collectively referred to as the "equipment," necessary to access DIRECTV's services. The term "equipment" does not include the dish and cabling. THIS EQUIPMENT LEASE ADDENDUM CONTAINS THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR THE LEASE BY DIRECTV OF THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT TO YOU, BUT MUST BE READ TOGETHER WITH THE DIRECTV CUSTOMER AGREEMENT (A COPY OF WHICH IS PROVIDED TO YOU WITH YOUR FIRST BILL AND IS AVAILABLE AT DIRECTV: Customer Service : Review Customer Agreement FOR ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS REGARDING THE PROVISION OF THE SERVICES AND YOUR RIGHT TO USE THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT. YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NOT PURCHASED THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT, YOU DO NOT OWN THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AND THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT MUST BE USED AND RETURNED TO DIRECTV STRICTLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF THIS EQUIPMENT LEASE ADDENDUM AND THE DIRECTV CUSTOMER AGREEMENT.

PROGRAMMING AGREEMENT.
Within 30 days of provision of DIRECTV equipment to you, or on the date that the professional installer has installed or is prepared to install your DIRECTV equipment, whichever is sooner, you agree to activate each and every DIRECTV Receiver ordered by you or provided to you with any DIRECTV® base programming package (valued at $29.99 per mo. or above); Jadeworld; or, any qualifying international service bundle, which bundle shall include either the DIRECTV® BASIC programming package (valued at $12.99 per mo.) or the DIRECTV PREFERRED CHOICE™ programming package (valued at $35.99 per mo.) together with any WorldDirect™ international-language service. DVR service activation ($6/mo.) required for DVR leases; HD Access fee ($10/mo.) required for HD Receiver leases; and, both DVR service and HD Access fee payment required for HD DVR leases.

PROGRAMMING TERM.
For a new DIRECTV customer, The programming package(s) must be maintained for a period of not less than twenty-four (24) consecutive months. For a current DIRECTV customer, the programming package(s) must be maintained for a period of not less than (a) twelve (12) consecutive months for accounts with only standard receiver(s), or (b) twenty-four (24) consecutive months for accounts with advanced product(s)/receiver(s) (DVR, HD, or HD DVR, including additional DIRECTV receiver(s)). After you have fulfilled the agreement to the required programming package(s), you are not obliged to continue your subscription to DIRECTV programming for any specific duration. Current DIRECTV customers may activate additional receivers with thier existing DIRECTV programming package. THIS AGREEMENT TO MAINTAIN PROGRAMMING IS SEPARATE AND DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER PROGRAMMING AGREEMENT YOU MAY HAVE MADE WITH DIRECTV AND IS FULLY ENFORCEABLE UNDER THESE TERMS.

MONTHLY LEASE FEE.
For a new DIRECTV customer, you will be charged a monthly lease fee in the amount of $5 per 2nd and each additional receiver leased by you in your household. For a current customer, you will be charged a monthly fee in the amount of $5 for each receiver leased by you in your household, unless you replace all of your owned-equipment with leased equipment, in which case, the monthly lease fee will be waived for the 1st receiver. Applicable taxes will apply. LEASE FEE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME.

CARE OF EQUIPMENT.
You are responsible for the loss of or any damage to the DIRECTV equipment that you have leased from DIRECTV. You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove, relocate, alter or tamper with the DIRECTV equipment at any time. DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.

CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR FAILURE TO ACTIVATE PROGRAMMING OR MAINTAIN YOUR PROGRAMMING.
If you fail to activate all of your DIRECTV equipment in accordance with this Equipment Lease Addendum, you agree that DIRECTV or an authorized DIRECTV Retailer may charge you a fee, as liquidated damages, of $150 for each receiver that is not activated. For a new DIRECTV customer, if you fail to maintain your minimum programming of 24 months, you agree that DIRECTV may charge you a prorated fee of $480. For a current DIRECTV customer, if you fail to maintain your minimum programming of 12 months for standard receiver(s) and 24 months for advanced receiver(s), you agree that DIRECTV may charge you a prorated fee of $240 for standard receivers and $480 for advanced products/receivers (e.g., DVR, HD, HD DVR, etc.).

RETURN OF DIRECTV EQUIPMENT.
If you cease to be DIRECTV's customer for any reason (whether voluntarily or involuntarily) or if you decide to disconnect/cancel/terminate your DVR service or HD Access fee (if you are leasing a DVR or HD Receiver, respectively), you must call DIRECTV within seven (7) days after the termination of your DIRECTV programming services, DVR service or HD Access fee, as applicable, to obtain information from DIRECTV necessary to arrange for a ground or air freight service to pick up and deliver all of your DIRECTV equipment to DIRECTV. You acknowledge that the DIRECTV equipment belongs to DIRECTV and the DIRECTV equipment, including the access card inserted into each receiver, must be returned to DIRECTV in good working order, normal wear and tear excepted. In the event that all of the DIRECTV equipment is not returned to DIRECTV within thirty (30) days of the termination of your DIRECTV programming services or is damaged when it is returned to DIRECTV, you agree to pay DIRECTV the sum of $55 per each DIRECTV standard receiver; $200 for each DIRECTV DVR Receiver; $240 for each DIRECTV HD Receiver; or $470 for each DIRECTV HD DVR Receiver that is not returned to DIRECTV or that is damaged when it is returned to DIRECTV as compensation for a portion of the expenses incurred by DIRECTV in establishing your account and providing you the DIRECTV equipment for your use. Visit DIRECTV.com or call 1-800-531-5000 for details.

ARBITRATION.
You and DIRECTV agree that both parties will resolve any dispute arising under this Equipment Lease Addendum, the DIRECTV Customer Agreement or any other addendum thereto, or regarding your DIRECTV programming service, through binding arbitration as fully set forth in the DIRECTV Customer Agreement.



General break down of fees

Fees/Frequency Explanation
Programming Agreements 24 months of service for at least $29.99/month You agree to pay for 24 consecutive months of a $29.99/month or greater programming package.
Cancellation Fee Varies If you do not fulfill your Programming Agreements, DIRECTV may charge you a pro-rated fee of up to $480.
Equipment Lease Fee 1st receiver waived, $5.00/mo per additional receiver Your fee for the first receiver is waived. Each additional receiver costs $5.00/month.
DVR Service Fee $6.00/mo By selecting a DVR or HD DVR receiver, you'll automatically be enrolled in DVR service. The cost of this service is $6.00/month, no matter how many DVR or HD DVR receivers you select.
HD Access Fee $10.00/mo For an additional $10.00/month, you may receive HD feeds of channels you subscribe to with an HD or HD-DVR receiver.
Payment Monthly You agree to pay your full balance by the due date on your monthly billing statement.
Taxes and Surcharges Varies You will pay all taxes, government fees, and charges, if any.
Non-activation Fee $150/receiver If you do not activate your receiver within 30 days of installation, you will be charged $150 per receiver.
Late Fees $5 or maximum permitted by law If you do not pay your bill on time, the fee posts after the grace period expires.
Deactivation Fee $15 If you deactivate your service, or we deactivate your service, we may charge you a deactivation fee of $15.
Unreturned Equipment Fee Varies You agree to return leased equipment to DIRECTV upon disconnecting your service. If you do not return the equipment, DIRECTV may charge fees from $55 to $470 per receiver


all pretty easy to find ... Also the this inofmation is part of the work order you sign off on when your installed.

Sorry we could not keep you as a customer but do say that are agreements are hard to find or mysterious they are in plain sight in plain english.
 
Certainly the average person is not going to scour a companies web site and then read 10 pages of fine print, nor are they going to do the same on the back side of every piece of paper they're handed by the installer who is impatiently shifting his weight from one foot to the other and looking at his watch because he's already late for his next appointment.

This is pretty simple: if someone calls you up and asks you to provide service say "There is a two year commitment with a $480 cancellation fee if you cancel after the first month, and it goes down $20 a month after that...okay?".

Right, I know why that doesnt happen that way. Because some of the time, the next thing the directv guy would hear is a dial tone.

Fine to tuck it away where it wont deter sales, but the alternative outcome is pretty obvious in the number of complaints: customers that are unhappy and want to part company only to find that they have to pay a huge financial penalty to do so will be pissed and complain.

Pick one or the other: keep the sales up and have a lot of mad customers or be honest and upfront and lose some business as a result.

The average person goes into an agreement like this thinking its going to be like any other 'utility' service or entertainment service: when you no longer want or like the service, or if you're moving, you call and cancel it and thats that. We expect that unusual or high cost fees will be highlighted.

Most people understand that when they're given something substantial for free, that there should be some sort of commitment. Yet when you pay $200 a receiver and have to give it back when you're done using it, you havent really received anything for free. Dish install and wiring? Cost of doing business vs cable who doesnt have to go through that malarkey.

Its not easy to have your cake and eat it too.

Somewhere along the line some muckety-muck at directv was told that there are a lot of customers canceling and the company losing some money as a result. Instead of doing the smart business decision and asking that the cause of the cancellations be investigated, the knee-jerk reaction was "Well, lets charge them a cancellation fee! See how they like that!!!"

Stupid business decisions 101.
 
At some point, the average person needs to start reading contracts to which they sign their name. No one likes fine print, but too many people accuse a company of cheating them when they simply didn't want to take the time or effort to understand what they were getting in to. The sub-prime mortgage mess is a great example of people not wanting to study contracts logically. People want stuff without having to worry about the details. No one likes fine print, but we ignore it at our own peril.

The cancellation fee wasn't put in place as a "We'll teach them to leave us!!" form of punishment. For many, the cost of equipment was stated by many as a reason why they didn't pick up satellite TV. (Early non-DVR HD receivers were around $600-$700.) Companies began subsidizing the cost of the equipment, requiring a commitment and cancellation fees to ensure that they wouldn't lose money.
 
We've been customers since late 1998. We haven't seen a contract, or signed ANYTHING, since that time. Yet, we're still subject to DirecTV's arbitrary rules (because, yes, I know, it says they can change their rules anytime). DirecTV also has not, and will not, prove to me why my contract was extended. (They gave three different reasons, and refused to back up any of the three with a paper trail.) Their final response was, as I wrote earlier: "DirecTV considers this matter closed."

In 2006 we bought a DirecTV HD DVR from Best Buy for $199, which we "owned." In 2007, I bought the same model/size/brand DirecTV HD DVR from Best Buy for the SAME $199 and it is "leased." (And, yes, I also paid a lot MORE for past receivers, DVRs, etc. which we no longer have. I paid, at one point, up to $1,400 for an expanded hard drive DirecTiVo when we first got HD.)

At some point after that 2007 purchase ALL of our equipment was shifted to "leased" on our bill, following an account reauthorization when we were having issues with our channels showing up correctly. We had to call and do a lot of phone fiddling, etc. that eventually resulted in removing and re-adding all of our programming, which somehow worked. (I suspect this also triggered the "new contract" though nothing actually changed; but I don't have any proof as I did not document the date this occurred, just remember that it did at some point.) I have the receipts that show both receiver purchases (time, date, price), as well as old DirecTV bills that show the owned/ leased swap for the SAME receivers. I offered to fax all of this information to DirecTV but they did not respond because they "consider this matter closed."

I haven't really fought too much about the leasing/owned issue because it seemed like 1) a waste of breath after several fruitless emails and phone calls and 2) All I've ever done with old equipment I owned anyway was give it to Goodwill, so no great loss to send it back to DirecTV instead.

I'm not arguing that DirecTV doesn't have a right to run their business this way but, after almost 11 years of loyalty and on-time payment, I expect more from a company I'm paying $160/month for service. That's simply MY opinion. DirecTV does not agree, and I don't expect them to change their minds. I will vote with my wallet and take my business elsewhere when my bogus "contract" expires. I have already cut our programming and turned off several receivers, so they've lost about $65/month of my money. If I could leave today, I would, which is what I told the person in retention when I spoke with them after asking to reduce my services.

For those who say all companies do this, I disagree. Yes, I have a cell phone contract. But it was made very clear when I signed up why I had a contract, and for how long. If I change my cell phone plan, it doesn't start a new contract and I've never had any confusion about when/why a contract began, or ended. And, in the case of cell phones, the cost of a phone with contract and without is VERY clear and obvious. (And you always have the choice of buying a phone without a contract, at a higher cost.) With DirecTV, during this back-and-forth, they said I would have had to pay $499 to "own" my current receiver (the one I paid the same price for an "owned" one just 11 months prior) AND there STILL would have been a new contract put in place, regardless of ownership status. I was told ANY change, discount or special offer automatically extends your contract another TWO YEARS. (I also asked for a letter from the retention person I spoke with that documented dropping my programming packaged wouldn't extended my contract. We'll see if I get it.) That's just outrageous and NOT standard business practices for any other company I can think of. At least not one I'd willingly deal with!

By the way, I don't even know if there was a contract time when we first signed on, and that was back when there were upfront costs of install and equipment ... All of which we then "owned."
 
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The comparison with the sub-prime market is pretty humorous. In the vast majority of cases involving bad sub-prime loans, the person getting the loan was well aware of the costs and contracts and participated in faking income or equity to obtain the loans. Granted some of the folks who bought into the zero down variable rate products didnt realize how much they might end up paying after a bunch of rate resets, but they were most certainly sat down by a loan representative and read the specifics surrounding the loan.

Nobody ever mentioned anything to me about a $480 cancellation fee.

Companies began subsidizing the cost of the equipment, requiring a commitment and cancellation fees to ensure that they wouldn't lose money.

I've been buying tivo dvr's and directv tivo dvr's for <$200 a box for almost ten years, none of them requiring a commitment or subsidy.

The Hr20's are the first dvr's I've bought that came with a commitment and I'm dubious of the value of the 'subsidy', since I have to give it back at the end of the 'lease'. And they'll just test it and 'lease' it to someone else as a refurb.

Right now I can buy a Tivo HD box which excepting the absence of satellite tuners but the presence of terrestrial tuners, contains almost exactly the same components and build as an HR2x, and I can pick it up from between $150 and $199. The cable companies will give me their box for free, just a monthly fee.

So I think the theory of subsidies as a necessity of the business model isnt a particularly good one. Directv gets us to pay a fair market price for the boxes, gets them back and 'leases' them to someone else, and if we come to an impasse on the quality of products and services, gets to harvest up to $480 from us on the way out.

Doesnt seem equitable.
 
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