Denver HD Local Signal Stength problems? (1 Viewer)

MNipper

Thread Starter
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 20, 2004
20
0
Evergreen, CO
Just curious if anyone else is seeing any issues from 129, Transponder 2. It seems to have one of the lowest strengths available, when compared to everything else I get from 129. With an 18" (single LNB) dish, I only manage a signal strength of about 70-71, and my neighbor's Dish 1000 only pulls about 60. We both have 622's, and whereas he can get good, clean programming on the VOOM channels (from 129), all four of the Denver locals are pixelating badly for him. All of my locals, other than CBS, were clean. In a side-by-side comparison (by phone) of the CBS issues, some of his worst events are paired with momentary freezes on my side of the street, but he still experiences far more pixelation that I don't see at all.

ANYWAY... I'm just curious what some other folks are seeing, both in terms of strength (from 1000 and/or single setups), and whether we're alone in seeing these particular problems. It almost seems like somewhere in that 70 to 60 drop in stength, it falls below a reasonable strength to maintain proper quality. Of course the problem in all of that is the fact that with transponder 2 operating so low (at least for our area), it sort of defeats the whole purpose of the single-dish solution. The installer who put up the 1000 for my neighbor even said that he'd been seeing really strengths for TP 2, and suggested that it might require a separate dish in order to work properly.

Certainly, when I called in the issue, the E* Tech Support folks claimed to not be having any issues (even though my neighbor's problems had been happening for hours). I'm just curious of anybody else is in the same boat?

Thanks.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,377
540
suburbia
MNipper said:
Just curious if anyone else is seeing any issues from 129, Transponder 2. It seems to have one of the lowest strengths available, when compared to everything else I get from 129. With an 18" (single LNB) dish, I only manage a signal strength of about 70-71, and my neighbor's Dish 1000 only pulls about 60. We both have 622's, and whereas he can get good, clean programming on the VOOM channels (from 129), all four of the Denver locals are pixelating badly for him. All of my locals, other than CBS, were clean. In a side-by-side comparison (by phone) of the CBS issues, some of his worst events are paired with momentary freezes on my side of the street, but he still experiences far more pixelation that I don't see at all.

ANYWAY... I'm just curious what some other folks are seeing, both in terms of strength (from 1000 and/or single setups), and whether we're alone in seeing these particular problems. It almost seems like somewhere in that 70 to 60 drop in stength, it falls below a reasonable strength to maintain proper quality. Of course the problem in all of that is the fact that with transponder 2 operating so low (at least for our area), it sort of defeats the whole purpose of the single-dish solution. The installer who put up the 1000 for my neighbor even said that he'd been seeing really strengths for TP 2, and suggested that it might require a separate dish in order to work properly.

Certainly, when I called in the issue, the E* Tech Support folks claimed to not be having any issues (even though my neighbor's problems had been happening for hours). I'm just curious of anybody else is in the same boat?

Thanks.

Each time I install a D-1000 I have to tweak the crap out of it to get a good sig on the 129....When the rep fronm the DNS office came to our officxe to train for D-1000, he stated all the peaking would take place off the 119.....Similar to the D-500..i have found that not to be accurate...If the dish is peaked off 119 and set.The 119 and 110 sigs will be normal while the 129 will be in the 50's and 60's....
I take a liitle off the 119 and try to balance out the sig strength....A little weaker 119 sig won't hurt by bringing up the 129.....The last thing I need is a trouble call(non paying) for pixelating HD pics....
 

rixhd

SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 2, 2005
74
0
Port Orchard, Wa
That's amazing, even Dish's own neighborhood can't pick up 129 properly. I wonder how Charlie's reception is? I was told the low signal strength was because I was on the edge of the satellite footprint in Seattle. In your area, they just deny that it's a problem for anyone but you. The installers must know better. I hope they are giving Dish lots of feedback.

Why doesn't Dish just admit it and tell us what they plan to do about it? Something has to be done eventually. At least they could be up front about it. If they plan on using another satellite at 129 in the future, say so. It would help customers to know that they're working on it. Come on guys, be straight with us.
 

DJ Rob

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
1,576
1
Denver, Colorado
When I get home later, I'll check my signal levels on 129. I live in the Arvada/Westminster area and I installed the Dish 1000 myself.

I remember that 129 had a lot lower signal than 110 or 119. I tweaked my Dish signal for 129 since it was so low and 110/119 were both still in the 100's.
 

MNipper

Thread Starter
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 20, 2004
20
0
Evergreen, CO
Thanks for each of your replies and feedback. Certainly appreciated.

I've already volunteered to help my neighbor "re-tweak" his 1000 tomorrow morning at some point. I suspect that it, too, was tweaked to 119.

DJ Rob, I would be curious what you see on TP2 with your 1000. If nothing else, it will give me something to shoot for. It's still quite disconcerting that we're already starting super low, and that this 10 point drop-off ends up (essentially) making everything unwatchable. That doesn't bode well for the spring/summer, when those big thunderheads come rolling off of the Front Range. I've never really had any serious problems with fending off the fade, but I bet that those days are over. Now, the only question is whether a stand-alone 18" is better for my neighbor (in poor weather settings), or whether the 1000 can be tweaked to a higher setting.

I sure hope we get moved to the 110 spotbeams, when that bird comes online....
 

DJ Rob

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
1,576
1
Denver, Colorado
I get 66 on TP2. TP15 seems to be the highest on 129 that I get at 77.
I have a 6000 receiver so I can't sub to the HD locals since they are mpeg4.
I sub to VOOM and I haven't seen any problems.

I'm wondering if the problem has to do more with the mpeg4 channels...
 

larrykenney

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 16, 2004
552
222
San Francisco, CA
When I had my ViP-622 installed they suggested that I keep my Dish500/300 combination rather than getting the Dish1000. The installer said that signal levels from 129 on the 1000 are 15 to 20 points lower than with the 300 dish. I'm glad I stayed with the 300!

Here in San Francisco, I get 77 on TP2 from 129. My highest signal is on TP6 with an 87. TP15 is 79.

In case anyone cares to compare, here's the list of signal strengths that I took a week or so ago:

Sat 129 signal levels from Dish 300 in San Francisco:

TP signal
-- -------
01 73
02 77
03 74
04 72
05 71
06 87
07 77
08 65
09 78
10 86
11 72
12 81
13 67
14 72
15 79
16 66
17 72
18 71
19 72
20 67
21 61
22 --- (no signal)
23 73
24 71
25 --- (no signal)
26 --- (no signal)
27 73
28 --- (no signal)
29 --- (no signal)
30 73

Larry
 

MNipper

Thread Starter
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 20, 2004
20
0
Evergreen, CO
larrykenney said:
When I had my ViP-622 installed they suggested that I keep my Dish500/300 combination rather than getting the Dish1000. The installer said that signal levels from 129 on the 1000 are 15 to 20 points lower than with the 300 dish. I'm glad I stayed with the 300!

Here in San Francisco, I get 77 on TP2 from 129. My highest signal is on TP6 with an 87. TP15 is 79.

In case anyone cares to compare, here's the list of signal strengths that I took a week or so ago:

Sat 129 signal levels from Dish 300 in San Francisco:

....

Larry


Good stuff Larry, thanks. I've pasted in my readings next to yours, just for grins:
TP signal(SF) Den
-- -------
01 73 72
02 77 69
03 74 70
04 72 70
05 71 72
06 87 83
07 77 74
08 65 69
09 78 83
10 86 82
11 72 71
12 81 84
13 67 74
14 72 70
15 79 77
16 66 74
17 72 75
18 71 71
19 72 72
20 67 74
21 61 72
22 --- (no signal)
23 73 72
24 71 69
25 --- (no signal)
26 --- (no signal)
27 73 70
28 --- (no signal)
29 --- (no signal)
30 73 66
31 ?? 69


What's amazing to me is how these vary over time. The readings that I took above are "generally" higher than what I got five days ago (both were clear days). But, the variances are both up and down. The worst cases are TP20 (10 points higher today), and TP31 (8 points lower today).

Also, I'm struck by the variance between SF and Den. Obviously, you get pretty good reception off of TP2 from SF, whereas there's only one TP worse for Den (TP30), than the one that E* choose for our stations. It's almost like they paid no attention to these variances when making their choices.

I'd love to understand those power variances (since last Monday) on TP20/31. I.E. whether that is because they are actually kicking the power settings around (I don't know whether they can do that?), and/or whether they have the ability to make selective "aiming" decisions for each TP?

Anyway... I guess there's not that much that I can do, except hope that our stations go to a 110 spot, as I said earlier.

Thanks again for your input.
 

SimpleSimon

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Feb 29, 2004
5,692
3
Florissant, CO
Remember, the bird at 129 doesn't belong there. It's CONUS footprint is now offset because it's not at the orbital slot it was designed for. That's also why it's unusable for the NE, S. FL, etc. (ignoring the low LOS issue).

I just read somewhere that a new bird is going to be built for 129, but it's still at least 2 years away. Chances are they'll put some other bird into 129 before then to help out.

Oh - and yes, they CAN mess with power settings. You should've seen it when it first went live (before release), they were playing with them every few minutes fr a couple of days.
 

FantasyChannel

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 9, 2006
169
0
dishcomm said:
When the rep from the DNS office came to our office to train for D-1000, he stated all the peaking would take place off the 119.....Similar to the D-500..i have found that not to be accurate....

Don't believe everything you hear from DNS. They can be so full of themselves!
 

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