Did they ever fix the DD Optical audio (1 Viewer)

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ShadowEKU

Expert in the Making
Supporting Founder
Jul 13, 2004
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Frankfort, KY
I was one of the few who had the problem with the DD on the 811... has anyone got anything new to report... does it work or not?
 
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ShadowEKU

Expert in the Making
Supporting Founder
Jul 13, 2004
1,829
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Frankfort, KY
Its been around here for a while.. the 811's DD output on Optical is incompatible with certain receivers. All the rest of my receivers, Xbox, PS2, DVD players (multiple) have had no problems.. only the 811
 

NightRyder

1978 Y88 T/A 6.6 4 spd 1978-2020 RIP
Supporting Founder
Sep 9, 2003
3,545
8
NW Oregon
Shadow: The DD fix was not in 2.82 which has been pulled. According to the release notes Jason posted the DD fix was supposed to be in 2.84 but there was a chance that it would be included in 2.83.



NightRyder
 

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
ShadowEKU said:
Its been around here for a while.. the 811's DD output on Optical is incompatible with certain receivers. All the rest of my receivers, Xbox, PS2, DVD players (multiple) have had no problems.. only the 811

Why is it that the 811 isn't compatible and not a person's hardware?
 

nippjas

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 21, 2004
516
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charper1 said:
Why is it that the 811 isn't compatible and not a person's hardware?
This has been discussed at length in the past. PCM can operate at more than one frequency, as such this is not a bug with the 811 but rather an incompatibility as AV receiver manufacturers need to band together and standardize which range they want to standardize on. Why is this?, you may ask, or better yet, What the heck is PSM?

PCM= Pulse Code Modulation, it is a communication protocol for digital audio transmission...
For the veterans that know more about this and are about to get technical: PCM= Pulse-code modulation (PCM) is a modulation technique. It is a digital representation of an analog signal where the magnitude of the signal is sampled regularly at uniform intervals of duration T . Every sample is quantized to a series of symbols in a digital code, which is usually a binary code. It is also the standard form for digital audio, in computers and various compact disc formats.
(Digital audio describes sound recording and reproduction systems which work by using a digital representation of the audio waveform. The most common method of creating digital audio is Pulse-code modulation (PCM). PCM digital audio is typically sampled at 44.1 kHz (for CD recordings) or 48 kHz (for professional audio applications). For comparison, speech signals for telephony are only sampled at 8 kHz. Higher sample rates for professional recording are becoming popular. These include 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, and 192 kHz.)
Several PCM streams may be multiplexed into a larger aggregate data stream, this technique is called Time-Division Multiplexing or TDM. While invented by the telephone industry, TDM technology is also an integral part of many digital audio workstations. (Source)

Other links:
http://www.pctechguide.com/10dvd_DVD-Audio.htm
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/audio_notes/f_audio_notes-11.25.03.shtml
http://www.atsc.org/document_map/audio.htm
 

ShadowEKU

Expert in the Making
Supporting Founder
Jul 13, 2004
1,829
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Frankfort, KY
right.. there are no PCM problems only the DD problems. some Higher end receivers can discriminate the bits of the dirty signal the 811 is currently putting out... others (like mine unfortunately) cant. Its a matter of hardware limitation I think. But the only reason I blame the 811 for the problem is because every other device I have with a Toslink Out that uses DD works 100% fine.

And for the record I know its not my 811 because I can hook it to my PC which decodes the DD jsut fine.. the only problem is that they are in seperate rooms.


Thanks for the info though.
 

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
I was in on that lengthy thread, and as such it seems that E* picked the rate they thought best (current most widely used) and certain people's older or lower end A/V hardware is locked in to only one rate (a different rate) and therefore it COULD be the A/V that is incompatible just as well.
 

nippjas

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 21, 2004
516
0
charper1 said:
I was in on that lengthy thread, and as such it seems that E* picked the rate they thought best (current most widely used) and certain people's older or lower end A/V hardware is locked in to only one rate (a different rate) and therefore it COULD be the A/V that is incompatible just as well.
Not to step on any toes but didn't I just say this? Or at least gurgitate most of this statement...oh well I'm pretty tired.
 

elitepuckster

New Member
Sep 6, 2004
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Seems to me that people that have the DD working are quick to blame the older sound receivers and the people that dont have the DD working are quick to blame the 811. All I have to input in this is why, after all the other receivers that dish has put out, would they take this receiver and change the DD output. Hmmm, lets think about this for a second. I, as I am sure many other people did, spent a lot of money on a HD tv so I could have the unbelievable picture. After getting the 811 for the HD and already having a receiver that decodes DD 5.1, I was not expecting to have to go out and spend the extra money on another newer receiver just to have it decode the 811's output of DD 5.1. This just seems strange that Dish would make this change in the 811.

Take this as you will. I am not flaming anyone or anything in this post. I am just trying to put a little common sense as to why so many people are upset because all they get is chattering when trying to decode the 811's DD 5.1.
 

nippjas

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 21, 2004
516
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elitepuckster said:
Seems to me that people that have the DD working are quick to blame the older sound receivers and the people that dont have the DD working are quick to blame the 811. All I have to input in this is why, after all the other receivers that dish has put out, would they take this receiver and change the DD output. Hmmm, lets think about this for a second. I, as I am sure many other people did, spent a lot of money on a HD tv so I could have the unbelievable picture. After getting the 811 for the HD and already having a receiver that decodes DD 5.1, I was not expecting to have to go out and spend the extra money on another newer receiver just to have it decode the 811's output of DD 5.1. This just seems strange that Dish would make this change in the 811.

Take this as you will. I am not flaming anyone or anything in this post. I am just trying to put a little common sense as to why so many people are upset because all they get is chattering when trying to decode the 811's DD 5.1.
Yes sir, point taken. However please note that I did not and do not blame older receivers. I know just as many people with newer AV receivers having this issue. Again it comes down to a question of compatibility, in which E* has admitted and scheduled a patch for. I think both sides of the fence deserve credit for this one. E* for not originally making it compatible with both standards and the home audio industry for not standardizing.

Jason
 

ShadowEKU

Expert in the Making
Supporting Founder
Jul 13, 2004
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Frankfort, KY
I thought the DD 5.1 was standardized... i may be completely wrong... actually reading the thread im sure im wrong.

I jsut dont understand why every other E* receiver with optical out works fine with Dolby and the 811 doesnt. gets PCM just fine but cant decode the DD thats coming out of it. My question is this. it it is the most commonly outputted then why havent people run into this problem before? I mean I just bought a brand new DVD player and have had no trouble with it. I do blame my Audio receiver a bit but I bought it quite a while ago when DD was pretty new and the receiver was on the higher middle end then.
 

NightRyder

1978 Y88 T/A 6.6 4 spd 1978-2020 RIP
Supporting Founder
Sep 9, 2003
3,545
8
NW Oregon
ShadowEKU said:
I thought the DD 5.1 was standardized... i may be completely wrong... actually reading the thread im sure im wrong.

I jsut dont understand why every other E* receiver with optical out works fine with Dolby and the 811 doesnt. gets PCM just fine but cant decode the DD thats coming out of it. My question is this. it it is the most commonly outputted then why havent people run into this problem before? I mean I just bought a brand new DVD player and have had no trouble with it. I do blame my Audio receiver a bit but I bought it quite a while ago when DD was pretty new and the receiver was on the higher middle end then.

For the record it's not just the 811. I have seen a couple of reports where a subscriber was having proven DD problems with a 50x DVR and one of the newer Pioneer A/V receivers.


NightRyder
 

SRW1000

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 26, 2004
286
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Wisconsin
ShadowEKU said:
I thought the DD 5.1 was standardized... i may be completely wrong... actually reading the thread im sure im wrong.

I jsut dont understand why every other E* receiver with optical out works fine with Dolby and the 811 doesnt. gets PCM just fine but cant decode the DD thats coming out of it. My question is this. it it is the most commonly outputted then why havent people run into this problem before? I mean I just bought a brand new DVD player and have had no trouble with it. I do blame my Audio receiver a bit but I bought it quite a while ago when DD was pretty new and the receiver was on the higher middle end then.

Shadow, you're not wrong. Dolby Digital sampling rates are standardized at 32, 44.1, and 48 kHz.

The best explanation for the problem that I've read so far was posted by OdiOdin on the long DD/811 thread, which he said he got via a response from the CEO@echostar.com group:

"It's not that the 811 is putting out the 96k sampling rate. Dish DD broadcast are in the normal 48k sampling rate. The problem lies in the header that is broadcast by the 811, and they have no plans to ever use a 96k sampling rate (hdtv standards require half that and bandwidth is precious)."

This makes the most sense, as it explains why newer audio receivers do not have a problem decoding the 811's DD stream, but older ones (that aren't able to recognize a 96 kHz signal) can't. 96 kHz is not part of the Dolby Digital specification.

I was also told that a fix is in place for this, and it's scheduled for January. Not that I believe it, since I've been told the same thing many times before.

It really makes me resent being an unpaid beta tester for Dish.

Scott
 

merekm

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 5, 2003
15
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I take it that this DD issue is one that a receiver either decodes the signal or doesn't? While my receiver decodes the TOS link signal, it sometimes is out of sync with the video (mostly on HD sources, OTA and SAT). Is this a related issue or a totally different one?
 

SRW1000

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 26, 2004
286
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Wisconsin
merekm said:
I take it that this DD issue is one that a receiver either decodes the signal or doesn't? While my receiver decodes the TOS link signal, it sometimes is out of sync with the video (mostly on HD sources, OTA and SAT). Is this a related issue or a totally different one?

Yes, the problem is that some audio receivers can't properly decode the Dolby Digital output from the 811 (although some have reported getting some "chirping" or clicking sounds from it).

I've also noticed the sync issue, even with analog audio. I think that's a separate issue that is usually solved by either powering down or resetting. For the record, I also noticed a sync issue with my 721 - and it's very annoying.

Scott
 
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SRW1000

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 26, 2004
286
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Wisconsin
I spoke with Advance Technical Support tonight. They assured my that the Dolby Digital fix is part of the next software upgrade (285).

I also ask for, and got, a small programming credit for the year-long inconvenience of not having a properly-working 811. If 285 doesn't correct the problem, I'm going to suggest that they buy back my 811 - I've waited long enough.

Scott
 

splat10

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 23, 2003
110
1
pioneer 1014

I want to buy a pioneer 1014 but I'm worrying that this "fix" isnt' going to work for it. When is the 285 due out? My current reciever is dead so I can't wait but if it's within the 30 money back I can at least return it if it doesn't "fix" it. Otherwise I'm just buying an Onkyo 602.

Thanks
 
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