Digipower SG2100 DMSI SUPPORT

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satcom1

satcom1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 7, 2007
364
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Near Chicago
Buyer Beware1

If you have a Twinhan 1025 PCI card and purchase a SG2100 h-h motor it may not work.


This the third motor:
ALL THREE MOTORS WITH DIFFERENT PROBLEMS
"I usE USALS in Twinhan software and ProgDVB software, both with the same result overshoots g10r and g27 as well as echostar to 61.5 degrees by as much as five degrees. DMSI WRITES: I am not able to use this software or a VP1020 such as the one you have. Using USALS on three different satellite receivers that I have here performed flawlessly with your SG2100. Not one time passing by the satellite position determined by USALS."

This is part of a reply from DMSI in Atlanta, Ga. I spent months with a motor from them that never zeroed and was 4 degrees WEST and would not and could never track the satellite arc because of a manufacturing error. Not only that but the motor that was drop shipped through www.DVBharware.com had no factory seals on it.

Of the THREE motors I have had from these people. This is the only one that overshoots the satellite and will not correct to USALS.

Notice above that he did not even get my card correct.

Only after joining this forum did I find out about the LONG history of 4 degrees west error on earlier motors.

I suggest anyone considering a motor pay a few bucks more and get one of those other motors that work.

 
stogie5150

stogie5150

Crazed Cajun Rebel
Jan 7, 2007
3,824
51
Slidell,LA
I had my own issues with the Sg2100 motors, BUT, OTOH, I have never heard anyone that sucessfully ran their motor flawlessly with JUST a DVB card. When I set mine up everyone strongly suggested a receiver to run the motor and slave the card to the receiver, and that has been sage advice. Mine works flawlessly.

I just don't think the cards can do it properly, besides the voltage issues that are present, i.e. with no outside power supply you will have a lack of voltage to run the motor properly, IMO.

Find yourself a cheap receiver and use that. I bet you will be happier.:up

Check your PM for more info.
 
starman345

starman345

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 25, 2004
3,647
0
New Brunswick, Canada
Buyer Beware1

If you have a Twinhan 1025 PCI card and purchase a SG2100 h-h motor it may not work.


This the third motor:
ALL THREE MOTORS WITH DIFFERENT PROBLEMS
"I usE USALS in Twinhan software and ProgDVB software, both with the same result overshoots g10r and g27 as well as echostar to 61.5 degrees by as much as five degrees. DMSI WRITES: I am not able to use this software or a VP1020 such as the one you have. Using USALS on three different satellite receivers that I have here performed flawlessly with your SG2100. Not one time passing by the satellite position determined by USALS."

This is part of a reply from DMSI in Atlanta, Ga. I spent months with a motor from them that never zeroed and was 4 degrees WEST and would not and could never track the satellite arc because of a manufacturing error. Not only that but the motor that was drop shipped through www.DVBharware.com had no factory seals on it.

Of the THREE motors I have had from these people. This is the only one that overshoots the satellite and will not correct to USALS.

Notice above that he did not even get my card correct.

Only after joining this forum did I find out about the LONG history of 4 degrees west error on earlier motors.

I suggest anyone considering a motor pay a few bucks more and get one of those other motors that work.


If the seller has replaced these motors you have to give him credit for trying to satisfy you, if you are in $$ for all of them then I would be angry. I've noticed on several forums people who are having problems with motors, not just the sg-2100 but others as well. If I were in the market for a new motor I would be looking for a one button sg-2100, I have two of them here, they are old but work great, one is around 6 years old and still going.
As far as using a dvb-s card, I don't think that could be blamed for your motor problems, I've used dvb-s cards for years without problems to the cards or motors
I would go along with Stogie's advice to get a stb, its nice to be able to check the stb against the card and vice versa, also, most of the boxes have blind scan and that is a nice extra. Can't beat the cards for 4:2:2 and hd though, its the cheapest route to take for that.
I had problems with a dmsi sg-2100 motor, you may have read the thread here, but in the end they replaced it and although the replacement didn't work much better at least they tried. I hope you can find something that will work for you.:)
 
satcom1

satcom1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 7, 2007
364
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Near Chicago
I just heard back from Lance at DMSI, he is shipping back the same deffective motor. I had asked for a new controller board ($5) item but they don't have any. WHAT KIND OF SERVICE CENTER DOESN'T HAVE SPARE PARTS?. I worked for Motorola for 18 years and we never ever treated our customers so bad! I asked abot the controller boards I saw on another site and he said they don't work on the Digipower
SG2100.

I got ONE NEW MOTOR OUT OF THE THREE, which died in two weeks. They did not repair it and return it, they sent me an older motor. That is a real problem! If the service center is not up to repairing the product, what chance do you have.

I really wanted to buy the sadoun DG 380 motor because of what this reputable company has to say about it. I am gunshy now! My desire is that they send me one to try and if it works, what great stuff to say about the DG380!

It's not good for the industry!
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
334
87
Mankato, MN
I've had the same SG2100 motor for 4+ years now with no issues. It runs flawlessly and has worked in the Minnesota winters for 4 years. I've had around 10 boxes hooked up toi that motor at one time or another and if the motor slips its been the receiver making it do that.

I would try the receiver route.
 
satcom1

satcom1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 7, 2007
364
0
Near Chicago
ICE,
You said that before.
The product should say it does not work with PCI cards.
I don't think that is the case because two of the three did work with the Twinhan 1025 card.
This one did also but overran the correct position in USALS. Nothing else changed between the three motors. The other two tracked correctly.
 
satcom1

satcom1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 7, 2007
364
0
Near Chicago
Oh, by the way. I paid $65 for the motor and $55 in return shipping. How does that compare to a DG 380 for $99? Also this is today not four years ago.
 
Anole

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
13
L.A., Calif.
It's pretty obvious from reading the forum for several years (not personal experience) that the 2100 motor with one button, though never something that appealed to me, did work pretty well.
And, the newer, improved 2-button motor is just not the same animal.

Either the STAB HH90 didn't sell in large volume, or it's pretty decent.
The only complaint I've ever heard of it, is that's it's slow.
Well, duh... is it really slower than a 2100? I don't know.

The GS120 at SatelliteAV is claimed to be the 1-button, more reliable generation of the 2100.
(wow! no longer listed on his site...)
Sadoun is selling two or three newer, bigger, better motors.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of feed back on any of these motors to draw an independent conclusion.
 
Larry1

Larry1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 24, 2005
1,594
138
Port Hope, ON Canada
Some of the Twinhan cards are known for poor diseqc switching, and there is a modification to filter some of the noise. The modification was adding two capacitors to the diseqc switch. When using a diseqc switch with my Twinhan 1020A, I found the modification solved my switching problems. Some of your motor problems may be related to noise on the line causing the motor to interpret the commands inproperly. If you can add a modded diseqc switch between the motor and the LNBF it might help your motor positioning problems. I have not tried controlling my motor with my Twinhan card, but just thought this might help.
 
satcom1

satcom1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 7, 2007
364
0
Near Chicago
Anole,

Thanks for that run down of the motors. By the way your tutorial on FTA system configuration is so good it should be made a sticky..

Larry,

You may be on to something here. What specific switch do you think might help, I'll give it a try.
 
T

trinity13

SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 16, 2006
89
0
I had my own issues with the Sg2100 motors, BUT, OTOH, I have never heard anyone that sucessfully ran their motor flawlessly with JUST a DVB card. When I set mine up everyone strongly suggested a receiver to run the motor and slave the card to the receiver, and that has been sage advice. Mine works flawlessly.

I just don't think the cards can do it properly, besides the voltage issues that are present, i.e. with no outside power supply you will have a lack of voltage to run the motor properly, IMO.

Find yourself a cheap receiver and use that. I bet you will be happier.:up

Check your PM for more info.


FYI, I've been using two SG2100's (both are the one button version)
with just DVB cards for a few years.
One with a Twinhan 1020, the other with an SS2 ver. 2.6c.
The motor the SS2 controls has been modified (Positioner Heart Surgery, as
recommended by Jerryt).
Have not had problems with overshooting positions (but I'm not using USALS).
 
Last edited:
qwert1515

qwert1515

SatelliteGuys TheList
Sep 26, 2005
4,244
40
Los Angeles CA

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stogie5150

stogie5150

Crazed Cajun Rebel
Jan 7, 2007
3,824
51
Slidell,LA
FYI, I've been using two SG2100's (both are the one button version)
with just DVB cards for a few years.
One with a Twinhan 1020, the other with an SS2 ver. 2.6c.
The motor the SS2 controls has been modified (Positioner Heart Surgery, as
recommended by Jerryt; see attached).
Have not had problems with overshooting positions (but I'm not using USALS).

Like I said, you have to use an external power supply. I stand by my advice to use a FTA receiver to control his motor. :up The average FTA'er probably doesn't have the skills to mod his motor like shown in the file. I know I don't.
 
T

trinity13

SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 16, 2006
89
0
Like I said, you have to use an external power supply. I stand by my advice to use a FTA receiver to control his motor. :up The average FTA'er probably doesn't have the skills to mod his motor like shown in the file. I know I don't.


The motor used with the Twinhan is NOT modified and works fine!
 
J

jerryt

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 23, 2005
457
0
South Florida
USAL calculates a motor angle based on your lat and long and then sends a command to move to that motor angle.

To verify USAL, use a program like SS2diseqc1.10 and note whether the motor angle sent by the program is the same as where the motor stops. If the two motor angles agree, then USAL is working fine.

Reasons why USAL can be wrong.
1) If you enter a lat and long which produces the wrong motor angle, (even if it is the correct lat/long). Different software sometimes calculate different motor angles with the same lat/long.
2) Deinclination angle on motor set up is incorrect. For example motor angle 19 W should be satellite 97 but the satellite signal is found at 20.5 W. Suspect motor off alignment with the arc.

Know the motor angles for all your important satellites. Verify these motor angle with charts downloadable from the net. ( 1) http://www.satlex.de/en/azel_calc.htm 2) enter one visable satellite and your location. 3) press calculate. 4) press "Export data in CSV format of all visible satellites at your location" 5) Find the your motor angles on the exported chart.) If differences exist between the actual and chart angles, troubleshoot the cause.
 
Last edited:
satcom1

satcom1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 7, 2007
364
0
Near Chicago
Motor returned

After two weeks of testing DMSI returned the motor to me. They don't have the facilities to test USALS functionality.

Still does the same thing, overshoots the correct position.

Thanks to everyone that replied with some very good information.
 
Anole

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
13
L.A., Calif.
The Kitchen Sink

Okay, it's gotta be something... :rolleyes:

The deal is, you have a problem with a lot of unknowns.
So far, you've changed out the motor.
That still leaves software as a possible cause.
How do we tell? Well, JerryT's comments above sound like a good start.
Also, maybe try different software, be it divers, etc...

Another test would be to use a set top box.
Apparently DMSI did, and found no problem.
Can you run a test with one?
Sorry to say, but anyone these days who doesn't have at least one STB, and expects to live on only a PCI card, is playing Russian Roulette, with a loaded revolver. - :eek:

Another common problem with PCI users, is the power supply.
I will agree with Stogie above, that the Heart Surgery fix is a little drastic for most FTA users.
I've looked at it, and while not difficult, does open up a whole new can of worms.
The least of which is how to get power into the motor through another waterproof connector.
So, what's a fellow to do?
Well, the power supply that matters with a PCI user, is the one in his computer - :cool:
These are not nearly as reliable as they used to be!
Adding an extra hard drive, or a new DVD burner can easily overload one.
And clean 'n stable power is a major requirement in a computer with an FTA PCI card.
So, another area to explore is reducing power load on the system.
Have you recently installed that new high-powered video card? - :rolleyes:

Now, not to lessen the importance of any of the points above, but if your motor is just not properly zeroed, then that needs to be fixed.
I've taken the 2100's apart - it's not difficult.
Rezero the thing in software, note the mechanical position, take it apart, rezero it mechanically, and reassemble.
Is that a workable solution? It would seem to be.

Since you've had previous experience with motors and gotten them to track, one would assume you know how to install and align 'em.
Well, there's still a possibility that your motor, pole, mounting brackets, or dish has taken a mechanical hit that you've overlooked.
It would be wise to re-examine all steps of the install, just as if it were entirely new.

The page in section eight of the STAB manual and a similar table in the GeoOrbit site (picture below) show what to do to align a motor.
Following those instructions to get back onto the arc, should get the job done.
Of course, if the motor is off center, that could kill ya. :(

I know Brother Stogie has a 2nd motorized system that is giving him fits.
Yours sounds like a pain in the backside, too.
But the trick to solving both problems, is to methodically eliminate each possible cause of trouble, 'till you win.
I hope something in the list above brings you relief. - :up
 

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satcom1

satcom1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 7, 2007
364
0
Near Chicago
Anole,

Thank you for this information!

I have used DVBDream, Twinhan old and new and TSReader. None work with THIS motor.

I am able to use ProgDVB to assign fixed and saved positions and the motor does track correctly. However, This motor does not seem to be USALS compliant like the other two DMSI sent me.

With other motors I was able to have the motor change position simply by changing channels. USALS.

This is a one button motor that is older then any of the other motors and my thought it is old firmware that does not work with USALS.

The first motor that was shipped to me tracked perfectly in USALS except for the well documented 4 degree west problem. That motor came with no factory seals and a manual that said it was a DXM-7000 / 42 not a SG2100 like the shipping box stated.

The second motor was like new with factory seals and worked great for two weeks until it went hard over to the west and would not budge. Another forum member told me he had one of these motors do the same thing.

DMSI did not repair that motor and return it to me, they shipped me this older motor that seems not to be USALS compliant.

Ice had a posting with the Stab motor manual, really informative. I just don't beleive that this motor is USALS compliant.

DMSI has no way of testing USALS or replacing firmware or circuit boards, this according to Lance at tech support. They just seem to swap stuff out and hope it works.

I will have to eat the $112.00 that I have spent on this ?SG2100?

If I have to change screens in software every time I want to change channels and then wait for the motor, it becomes to involved.

I am more inclined to go with a Sadoun DG360, like they say "you've tried the rest now try the best" I've never done business with them and have no bias toward them.

I just hope that other folks will read this thread and choose more wisely than I did.

FTA should be fun not a headache.

Best Regards,

Tom
 
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