Direct DVR vs Dish

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SandraC

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When I switched from the Tivo HR10-250 to the DirecTV DVR it took quite some getting used to. But now I'm used to it. Some features are better on the Tivo, but more are better on the HR22. At this point I would not go back to the same version of Tivo, even if it included all the HD channels.

Yes the HR22 remote is slow at times, but does anyone remember what it was like to set a season pass on a Tivo? Or change the priority of season pass items? My goodness it took For-e-ver.

YMMV


Sandra
 
DodgerKing

DodgerKing

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When I switched from the Tivo HR10-250 to the DirecTV DVR it took quite some getting used to. But now I'm used to it. Some features are better on the Tivo, but more are better on the HR22. At this point I would not go back to the same version of Tivo, even if it included all the HD channels.

Yes the HR22 remote is slow at times, but does anyone remember what it was like to set a season pass on a Tivo? Or change the priority of season pass items? My goodness it took For-e-ver.

YMMV


Sandra
Exactly. TiVo's UI is one of the most complicated Interfaces around. Nothing is simple on it, including turning it off with the remote.
 
DodgerKing

DodgerKing

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And yet the tivo HD which uses essentially the same processor and supporting hardware is a lot faster than my HR20. Thats why I have a hard time blaming the hardware as being insufficient. Of course, throwing $25 at making the hardware a lot faster wouldnt be a bad idea.

My HR20-100 is terribly, terribly slow at times, both of them. Sometimes I hit a button and 3-4 seconds later it responds.

I've noticed if I cut the series links back to about 25 and cut out all of the kids shows that have a thousand episodes a week, it seems to speed up a little bit. So I'm guessing theres a good reason for the 50 series link limit.

I should note that I have three very cute dogs. Maybe theres a correlation between slow HR's and dog cuteness.
Like I said, the same procressor can be made faster with a different OS and different software. TiVos do less than the HR20, thus they can run faster on the same processor.

Plus, from what I have seen, my HR20 is faster than my TiVo.
 
harshness

harshness

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Like I said, the same procressor can be made faster with a different OS and different software. TiVos do less than the HR20, thus they can run faster on the same processor.
I'd be interested in seeing specifically where you think the HR20 has practical advantages in speed and functionality over the HD TiVos (aside from interoperability with DIRECTV).
 
lern4483

lern4483

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Direc dvrs have ''always'' been painfully slow

Most of the speed issues are due to the processor.

Just like a computer, if you have a slow processor your computer will run slower more often. Keeping the software efficient, removing crap, and creating a simpler OS will help the computer to an extent. Even a computer with the fastest processor can be slowed down by bloatware, inefficient software, and a poor OS, but it should still be faster than a computer with a slower processor. The fact that there are more speed issues with more units than the VIPs, tells me it is more of a hardware issue trying to be fixed by the software.

Hmm,
Very good point.

Why is it I wonder the VIP 622 and 722 are so fast compared
to, well, everything else?

Would love to see Direc give their machines a total facelife-Internal.
Biggest complaint has always been the slowness of the guide.
Its just painful. However, for me its always been slow-Since the early days
of Direc.

Truth is that programming wise direc is awesome.
Especially for sports-Not so much in terms of primium channels.
I revert back to dish for that one.

I find it so interesting that marketing wise.
Direc tv even with inferior hardware does such a specatular job.
Dish with the best hardware on the market never really gets that message accross on tv or print.
 
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cfb

cfb

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TiVos do less than the HR20, thus they can run faster on the same processor.

Like what? A tivo HD does exactly everything an HR2x does, and then some! Dual tuner and OTA recording, mrv, dlb, internet video, mediaplay/share that actually works, sending shows to a pc, sending shows from a pc, internet based swivel search, remote scheduling, yada yada yada.

Plus, from what I have seen, my HR20 is faster than my TiVo.
The only thing faster on my HR20 than a tivo hd is rearranging season passes. Something I do perhaps 3-4 times a year. Then the speed advantage is negated by the direct box not scheduling everything immediately like the tivo does, giving you any conflicts. It takes hours to days before the todo list is completely redone, and then you have to look at it and find conflicts on your own.

The tivo is much faster at remote control response, has a much faster guide, far faster at searching for shows, and the trickplay features are much more responsive.

As far as the tivo gui being complicated...my 75 year old dad picked it up in about 3 minutes. Gave him the remote and a few minutes of tutoring and he's never asked me a question since. Tried him with the directv product and after a half hour of working with him on it and letting him read and try the "tivo to HR2x survivors guide" he handed me back the remote and said "This has me stumped, I'm completely lost. I'll stick with my tivo".
 
A

agregjones

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Here's the most important thing to remember: many people hate change. A good percentage of the population show brand loyalty to the first brand they bought. People that had a TiVo might show unconditional affinity for its interface. A guy whose first DVR was a Dish 622 might never want to change. This is not specific to DVRs but to many consumer purchases from toasters to automobiles.

I owned an SD DirecTivo way back. I loved it. At the time it was the best thing since sliced bread. But when the HR2x came out, I had to have HD. Objectively, there is nothing I really miss on the TiVo. Suggestions were at times useful, but wrong as often as not. The stability on the HR2x has been far more than the old DirecTivo. Keep in mind that my DVRs run on a surge protected UPS, so I have never had issues with hard drive failures due to power problems.

To summarize, the features are about the same on all the products. They are all DVRs. If you are just hoping to record content regularly, pick a provider and then get their DVR. Chances are the first DVR you use will always in your mind be the best one and you'll compare all others to it.
 
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agregjones

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As far as the tivo gui being complicated...my 75 year old dad picked it up in about 3 minutes. Gave him the remote and a few minutes of tutoring and he's never asked me a question since. Tried him with the directv product and after a half hour of working with him on it and letting him read and try the "tivo to HR2x survivors guide" he handed me back the remote and said "This has me stumped, I'm completely lost. I'll stick with my tivo".

People hate learning two ways to do the same thing. It could be a GUI 10x better than the TiVo and many people would still hate it. Many people hated TiVos when they came out because there were more complicated than their VCRs. What many people hate most is change.
 
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SandraC

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Like what? A tivo HD does exactly everything an HR2x does, and then some! Dual tuner and OTA recording, mrv, dlb, internet video, mediaplay/share that actually works, sending shows to a pc, sending shows from a pc, internet based swivel search, remote scheduling, yada yada yada.

Well that's not true. It may be true about everything you said, but there are many things my HR22 does that my Tivo does not do. I have an SD Tivo in the spare bedroom, and I still use it on occasion. My HR10-250, however, is in a box to stay.


Sandra
 
priester68

priester68

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OK so other than the equipment, How do Directv and Dish compare to each other? Programming, customer service, picture quality etc. I've been thinking about switching to Dish to get a lower bill but I've found that the bill is about the same but Dish might have a few more channels for the money.
 
cfb

cfb

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Well that's not true. It may be true about everything you said, but there are many things my HR22 does that my Tivo does not do.

Name one. I should say name one feature that is a considerable performance hog.

Do note I said the tivo hd, not the series 1 or the crippled directivo or the semi crippled hr10-250, has roughly the same innards as the HR2x but better performance.

And as far as I can see, the tivo hd does absolutely everything the HR20 does and more. To be fair, it does a lot of stuff very differently, but I think thats how it manages to perform better. The HR2x series tries to do way too much stuff in real time and when a lot of that processing hits at once, you get a variable performing UI.

Quite seriously I'm not trying to make a case for tivo vs directv's dvr. I'm just pointing what I believe to be a fallacy, and that fallacy is that the directv dvr has inadequate hardware. I'm pointing out a product that performs substantially similar functions and sports very similar features, and does so on almost the same hardware platform...without the draggy user interface.
 
S

SandraC

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Name one. I should say name one feature that is a considerable performance hog.

Do note I said the tivo hd, not the series 1 or the crippled directivo or the semi crippled hr10-250, has roughly the same innards as the HR2x but better performance.

And as far as I can see, the tivo hd does absolutely everything the HR20 does and more. To be fair, it does a lot of stuff very differently, but I think thats how it manages to perform better. The HR2x series tries to do way too much stuff in real time and when a lot of that processing hits at once, you get a variable performing UI.

Quite seriously I'm not trying to make a case for tivo vs directv's dvr. I'm just pointing what I believe to be a fallacy, and that fallacy is that the directv dvr has inadequate hardware. I'm pointing out a product that performs substantially similar functions and sports very similar features, and does so on almost the same hardware platform...without the draggy user interface.

I'm not even sure exactly what you're comparing anymore. What I said before is my HR22 does a lot of things my HR10-250 did not do, and my SD Tivo does not do. Those are the only units I can compare.


Sandra
 
DodgerKing

DodgerKing

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I'd be interested in seeing specifically where you think the HR20 has practical advantages in speed and functionality over the HD TiVos (aside from interoperability with DIRECTV).
Speed:

  • Faster guide scrolling
  • Faster channel changing
  • Faster menu navigation
  • Faster Remote response

Function of HR20 over TiVO:

  • Many more short cuts
  • Easier to change settings
  • Able to go back and forth between a recorded program and live one by simply hitting the PREV button (TiVo requires about 3 different buttons and about 4 key presses)
  • TV and DVR turn off with one hit of the off button
  • Easier to set up recordings
  • Guide does not block picture
  • Fewer menu navigations and subfolder access for most tasks
  • More networking capability with Direct
  • 12 hour guide skip
  • 4 FF speeds
  • Much more interactive
  • Fewer missed recordings
These are just a few. I have made lists like this before that including other items that I left off. Simply put, there are few things that a TiVo can do that an HR20 cannot and there are many many many more things an HR20 can do that a TiVo cannot. Plus, the HRs are many times easier to use with less navigation.
 
DodgerKing

DodgerKing

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Like what? A tivo HD does exactly everything an HR2x does, and then some! Dual tuner and OTA recording, mrv, dlb, internet video, mediaplay/share that actually works, sending shows to a pc, sending shows from a pc, internet based swivel search, remote scheduling, yada yada yada.
The HRs do a lot more than an TiVO HD and just about everything you listed, the HR20 does as well.

Just from your list, the HR20 has a duel tuner, OTA recording, MRV (in CE), DLBm media share (yest it works with me perfectly fine), sending shows to my PC (DirecTV2PC), remote scheduling, yada yada yada. Aside from the internet video, there is nothing you listed that my HR20 cannot do. The only thing my current TiVO can do on the list is DLB.
The only thing faster on my HR20 than a tivo hd is rearranging season passes. Something I do perhaps 3-4 times a year. Then the speed advantage is negated by the direct box not scheduling everything immediately like the tivo does, giving you any conflicts. It takes hours to days before the todo list is completely redone, and then you have to look at it and find conflicts on your own.
So you think having to navigate several folders on the TiVO faster than simply pushing a few buttons on an HR20? So more steps is faster than fewer steps? That is interesting.
The tivo is much faster at remote control response, has a much faster guide, far faster at searching for shows, and the trickplay features are much more responsive.
None of the TiVOs I have owned are faster than my HR20. My TiVOs are slower than my HR20 after it slows down from a CE download
As far as the tivo gui being complicated...my 75 year old dad picked it up in about 3 minutes. Gave him the remote and a few minutes of tutoring and he's never asked me a question since. Tried him with the directv product and after a half hour of working with him on it and letting him read and try the "tivo to HR2x survivors guide" he handed me back the remote and said "This has me stumped, I'm completely lost. I'll stick with my tivo".
I and others I know have the opposite experience and I have been using a TiVO much longer than my HR20
 
cfb

cfb

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Doesn't TiVo-HD do Netflix?

Yes, and amazon and youtube and a bunch of other stuff, not requiring a separate pc.

Dodger, what i'm seeing is that you and other folks list of featuritis and performance opinion is based on some older tivo that it seems you had problems with. Might be a lot of reasons why you had trouble, its a complicated device. Probably the same reasons why I have trouble with my HR20's.

What you probably havent experienced first hand in your home is the series 3 tivo hd. Comparing the HR2x to an HR10-250, an old series 2 directivo or even a standalone series 2 isnt an apples to apples comparison.

I bought the tivo hd for my dad when he couldnt figure out the directv user interface. He uses it all the time and I use it when I'm there. Except for the time it takes to shuffle the season pass list, the tivo hd is far more responsive and faster in all regards. The HR20 makes me want to throw the remote control through the screen sometimes, its so erratically slow.

But back to my original point, the hardware platforms are quite similar, they perform substantially similar functions, yet one has more performance issues than the other. Thats not the hardware being inadequate.

Lets look at two functions, one of which involves the "slow" tivo.

You change the series/season pass links on both boxes. The tivo sits there for 3-5 minutes, because it does all the conflict resolution on the spot. The directv box tries to do the conflict resolution in real time while its trying to do everything else too. Big background load while also trying to record, play back, service the UI, etc. And sometimes the real time conflict resolution makes mistakes that the 'lets get it right and then give the user the menu back' method rarely does.

MRV. Directv is going to encrypt and stream the show in real time over the network. Thats going to make a lot of peoples home networks barf. I'll bet more than 75% of them. If you're streaming to a PC, thats also in real time. Any hiccup and you'll get a glitch. And a lot of people will have to buy new network stuff or pull wire. Tivo transfers the show both to another tivo or pc. You can even disconnect the pc and take the shows with you to watch somewhere else. You can start watching the show as soon as it starts transferring. It'll work on absolutely any network north of a pair of orange juice cans and a piece of string. No real time dependence on server or client performance.

Architecture and low-performance-footprint design = fast and smooth UI. All kinds of stuff happening sporadically in real time and lots of stuff glued on = erratic UI.
 
DodgerKing

DodgerKing

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Perhaps you are correct. I should probably play around with the new TiVOs to see how they compare. After all, if Direct and TiVO do come to an agreement, it will probably be with the newest version anyway.
 
cfb

cfb

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I've heard a few things about the tivo/directv product slipping out another 6+ months into 2010 or perhaps not happening at all.

I'm starting to wonder if this sudden flurry of features like DLB and MRV arent the directv engineering guys kicking it into high gear to obviate the need for a tivo offering.

I'm quite sure if the new directivo does come to be, that its going to be impaired like the old one was. Sending unencrypted shows to other receivers and to home pc's for portable play, watching netflix and amazon ppv's...probably not going to be in the cards.

I'm also not so sure about how the hardware stability is going to be. I found the tivo standalone products to be pretty reliable aside from a few early disk drive failures. But they were all built to the same reference standards and many used identical main boards. As Apple has shown, when you own the hardware platform and limit the options and variance, reliability goes up.

The directv hardware is very variable and I have a feeling that some issues are caused or worsened by having to deal with a half dozen or more dvr platforms, which are quite different internally. Tivo software will have the same challenges to run well across those, unless they just pick one box to run it on and leave it at that.

In the meanwhile, I just want something that records my shows with 99.9% reliability, responds when I push buttons on the remote, does what I tell it to do, and lets me watch what I want where I want in the home. The tivo HD i've used does that. The directv box still has a ways to go.
 
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