Directv AT9 dish

[willie8605]

This weekend I'm going to pick up a Directv AT9 dish so I can play with some DSS scanning once I get a PCI receiver.

DIRECTV Five LNB Ka/Ku Dish Antenna for MPEG-4 Compression HD Programming (AT9) | AT9 [DIRECTV]

It says there are 4 outputs "capable of receiving DIRECTV satellite signals on the Ku band (101°, 110°, 119°) and Ka band (99°, 103°)". What type of switch would be best to use with this dish? I don't want a really expensive one, and if it is impossible to get a cheap one that I can use for all 5 of the listed satellites, then I would be okay with not having the Ka band ones (99 and 103) and just receiving the Ku band birds.

Also, can I pick up 119W for NASA and ION with this dish or is this the wrong type of LNB to be used for receiving Dish Network stuff? I am not really familiar at all with Directv dishes/LNBs so excuse me if these are trivial questions I'll probably be spending some time reading up on all of this later tonight as well so any references to old threads are welcome!

 

[Mr Tony]

The slimline LNB's actually are the worst of the DirecTV LNB's to have

101 is the only LNB that will work
99 & 103 are KA band (not KU) so those are worthless
110 & 119 is different. 110 has 3 TP"s (28/30/32)...DirecTV converts them to 8/10/12 and combines them with 119 which is only from TP22-32. They use a 22k tone to switch to that satellite

If I remember, they use some bandstacked setups to make it all work. But if you just use the 101 LNB (which will be in the middle of a 3 LNB "cluster") you can get 119W with it

 

[willie8605]

How is it that they receive 119W and 101W on the same small dish and the LNBs are so close together? Could I just take off the far LNB (used for 119W) and make a bracket to attach one of my Dish Network LNBs in the same spot so I could receive 119W (NASA, ION) and 101W (DSS stuff) using one dish?

And I thought this dish was pre-slimline and replaced by the slimline series? Are the LNBs the same, just different dishes?

:EDIT:
So the only LNBs I would be using would be the original Directv LNB at 101W and an added Dish Network LNB for 119W so I guess there would only be 2 outputs?

 

[Mr Tony]

The AT9 had 3 LNB setups

119 on the far end
110 next to it
a "cluster" that looks like one LNB but its 3 (99/101/103)

yes you can try to fabricate something for 119 if you wanted to try 119 & 101 on one dish

 

[willie8605]

Sweet I think that's what I'll do. If I can get 119 to work on this dish then I can take the Dish 500 off my roof

Shouldn't be too hard to get 119 since I already know where it should be according to the LNB I'm going to be taking off. Would a Diseqc switch work or do I need a multiswitch?

:EDIT:
and how do I know when to use one or the other (diseqc or multi). I know there is a switch setup FAQ...maybe I will need to read through that some more

 

[Mr Tony]

Diseqc switch would work fine for one receiver

 

[willie8605]

Okay, I think I'm going to replace the center LNB with a QPH-031 so I can play with both DSS and FTA stuff. I am going to leave the original 119W LNB on there for NASA. I will post in progress pics when I get started.

 

[Anole]

wait a minute, now:

I don't know if you can actually get access to the 119°'s LNB output before it's crippled to use on DirecTV only.
If your goal was to get NASA off Dish Network, I believe you'll have a problem.
Think you'll need to hang a junker Dish/DirecTV LNB out there...

I also don't see the point of using a QPF-031 for the central LNB.
It's way overkill, and the dish will never see linear signals, if you aim that LNB at 101°.
(Well, except for AMC-4. Unless you really want AMC-4 100% of the time. )
So, any old disgusting Dish/DirecTV LNB might do for that location, too.

In fact the micro-fine adjustment on that beautiful mount is there to tune up on Ka satellites.
It would be quite the tool to dial up regular FTA birds, as would the QPH-031.
Hitting the hot circular satellites with the dish should be child's play!

Motorizing that monster makes no sense, if you keep the gawd-awful heavy mount.

So, what is the real purpose of the dish?
I think once you're sure how you want to use it, the options will become clear. --


edit: added direct link to LNB picture.

 

[gillham]

I don't know if you can actually get access to the 119°'s LNB output before it's crippled to use on DirecTV only.
If your goal was to get NASA off Dish Network, I believe you'll have a problem.

I used a Phase III to get NASA (without repointing it) before I bought my 90CM. If I get a chance in the next few days I will setup the Phase III temporarily and see if I can get a more definitive answer on how the TPs are combined with my analyzer.

The combiner could be slightly different on the newer dish, but there are definitely some transponders accessible. Which ones is the question.

 

[Anole]

Iceberg will correct me if my memory is faulty, but I think you used the "one good LNB" at 101°, from your Phase II or III dish, and pointed that to 119°.

So, after getting a PM, I endorse the QPH-031 for 101°, but still think the outboard 119° LNB will have to be swapped out with a regular unit.
There is little chance DirecTV gives you access to reception of all the transponders on their 119° LNB.

 

[Mr Tony]

Anole
Depends on if it is a Phase II or III

Phase III....correct. You can use the 101 LNB for 119
Phase II.....The Phase II was for 101/119 and both LNB's are separate units whereas the Phase III was 101/110/119 all housed in one. Basically it was 2 old DirecTV LNB's with a 22k switch to combine them (or a 4x4 /switch). I have one of these laying around and at one time had a DBS LNB on the "101" and "119" slots with a KU LNB where "110" would be. I had it aimed at 91/101/110. This is when 91W DBS had the radio stations (since scrambled), KU LNB at 101W for 3ABN and KUIL (when it was Fox) and DBS at 110 for my (at the time) Dish subscription

on the 3rd pic you can see 3 cables coming out of the LNB"s + there were 3 more in the arm

 

[Anole]

Right, right, thanks, Ice. - :up
On the Phase II, they had an external combiner module for the 3rd LNBf.
But on the Phase III, all that was done in the one three-LNB head.
From the picture, I'm suspecting the 110°+119° LNB-assembly screws you just like the Phase III electronics did.
Could be wrong - but I bring it up so you can check 'n verify.

 

[willie8605]

Looks like I will be replacing the center LNB with a QPH-031 for 101W and replacing the side 119W LNB with an extra Dish Network LNB I have. I may just not even bother with 119W and just use the dish for 101W, but I have a feeling I am still going to try and get 119W on the same dish just for the experience . There is a local independent OTA station that plays NASA half the time anyways so I won't be losing much if I lose 119W.

 

[Anole]

clarification:

No one was paying attention, and I was too lazy to look up the specs, but it seems Iceberg already laid it out, above!

110 & 119 is different.
110 has 3 TP"s (28/30/32)...DirecTV converts them to 8/10/12 and combines them with 119 which is only from TP22-32.
They use a 22k tone to switch to that satellite

THAT is why I didn't expect the existing 119°/110° combo LNB on the AT9 to work for NASA.

 

[gillham]

No one was paying attention, and I was too lazy to look up the specs, but it seems Iceberg already laid it out, above!

THAT is why I didn't expect the existing 119°/110° combo LNB on the AT9 to work for NASA.

I saw it, I just disagreed slightly as there are a few more transponders available than he listed. Check out the attached image of the Left / Horizontal transponders. That is 110W on the left and 119W on the right.

I checked it out with my spectrum analyzer and a DVB-S/QPSK receiver. While it is not that useful for FTA, it does pickup NASA, ANGEL, DISH101, plus the Hawaiian music. I only mention DISH101 as you could watch those "Charlie Chats" I guess if you were pretty bored.

If you already have it for DirecTV you can get a couple more channels out of the dish and you can look at the DSS stream if you have a Twinhan 1020a and TSReader. I had this on a temporary setup, so I didn't peak it much, just made sure I had signal from all 3 orbital slots. So the "normal 85%" below just means it didn't appear to be attenuated much by the combiner, though if you look at the photo you can pretty much see the attenuation.

I'm assuming the information below is pretty accurate for other dishes too, like the AT9 or slimline as they would need to see the same transponders, at least the DTV ones.


===================================
About the DirecTV Phase III dish.

With 22Khz off it is a normal circular LNBF for 101°W.
With 22Khz ON Right polarized transponders are all from 119°W.
With 22Khz ON Left polarized transponders are split between 110°W and 119°W.

Left circular polarity from 110W shows up on I/F 873 to 1135.

Note that the 110 transponders are shifted down by 291 Mhz. Using a LO of 11541 aligns them properly, though it doesn't matter too much if you just add 12210 manually.

The first three transponders show on the spectrum analyzer, but I didn't get any quality on either QPSK transponder and have no way to test Turbo 8PSK. I'm guessing that since they are below 950Mhz the receiver's tuner probably couldn't handle them.

**12414 L - TP14 (I/F 873) (QPSK on The List!)
**12443 L - TP16 (I/F 902) (QPSK on The List!)
**12472 L - TP18 (I/F 931) (8PSK on The List!)
12501 L - TP20 (12210 L with LO 11250)
12530 L - TP22 (12239 L with LO 11250)
12559 L - TP24 (12268 L with LO 11250)
12588 L - TP26 (12297 L with LO 11250)

12618 L - TP28 DirecTV
12647 L - TP30 DirecTV
12676 L - TP32 DirecTV


Left circular polarization from 119W shows up on I/F 1193 to 1426 and uses the normal LO of 11250. Nothing from 119W below 12443L shows up. This means ION isn't available. That transponder is right in the dead space between 110/119 signals and I'm guessing the filter in the combiner is wiping it out.

12443 L - TP16 weak 38%
12472 L - TP18 good 83%
12501 L - TP20 normal 85%
12530 L - TP22 DirecTV
...
12676 L - TP32 DirecTV

 

[Mr Tony]

Thanks for the info gilham

I had an old Phase II dish and the LNB that was for 119 had a frequency range covering 22-32 only (said like 12.5-12.75Ghz)

interesting that its a mix & match setup on the even side

 

[willie8605]

I was not ready for how heavy this dish is. It looks like it would be half of its actual weight.