Dish 5-room install

[S43R80]

Hey guys,

I posted here a while back when I was considering switching to dish network ('cause of poor reception w/ cable provider + cost + other reasons). In the end I decided against it just because it looked very difficult/expensive to get a 5-room installation;

Is it still difficult to get a 5 room installation? Can one satellite work w/ 5 rooms?

I had my cable provider here today to try to fix my reception problems...in the end he said that my whole house needed to be re-wired, and that sattelite was probably the best way to go (just because of the free installation).

Do you guys know of any companies (Dish OR direct tv) offering 5 room packages w/ free or minimal installation fees?

Thanks

 

[SimpleSimon]

OK. Nothing has changed since your earlier thread: [thread=12627]Switch from cable?[/thread]. Most of the information you received there is accurate.

Bottom line: It's easy to hook up 4 TUNERS to the dish or dishes (not the satellite - the satellites are 22,300 miles away). If you only need the core birds (110/119), it's not even too hard to get a hookup for the 5th and 6th TUNERS without a pair of DP34 or DPP44 switches. It does take some imagination that is not usually found in an installers brain. Details if needed. The hardware will NOT be free.

My question to you is why more than 4 TUNERS? You got that many people in the house? They ALL watch TV separately a LOT? If not, there are cheaper solutions, especially when you consider the extra $5/month fee for each tuner.

The standard 4 TUNER install can serve LOTS of televisions - especially by using the existing house wiring (which at 10 years old, is probably NOT suitable for satellite feed use, contrary to what you were told before). In effect you 'housecast' the tuners. A conflict arises if you are using the existing house wiring for cable internet. Are you?

There was some stuff in the other thread about which ends of the house and such and so forth. A succicent description please.

Finally, if you are considering getting your local channels, or special programming like Sky Angel or Internationals, I need to know before advising you - including your location (nearest city).

In closing, you're sitting there going WTF! Why's all this needed? Cable doesn't need this? Well, cable already knows where you are, doesn't give you options for special channels, and, finally, cable ain't rocket science - receiving TV signals directly from several places in orbit all at the same time IS rocket science.

 

[S43R80]

Hi, thanks for responding.

Note: I imagine a dish as having 4 coax lines connected from the dish to the televisions in the house. Or is it that a single line is sent to a switch which in turn is connected to the televisions in the house?

So, one can have 5 seperate signals coming from a SINGLE satellite dish (I've used "satellite" in my previous posting incorrectly to mean "satellite dish" for short)?

Now, by "switch" it kind of implies that a single signal would be shared among the different tv's (only one tv active at a time); how can each tv receive a channel?

Yes, having 5 televisions would make things much easier at the moment.

Well, after I get satellite service, I will drop down to my cable provider's LOCAL service and subscribe to broadband (broadband w/o the local service is actually more expensive than local + broadband...strange, huh?). The cable tech guy informed me that I need a new line drop for internet (we have really bad connection/wiring problems). He also said that AFTER directv or dish installs my service, he can just plug in the new line drop to the device that direct tv has wires running from (any idea what this is?) for the local channels on each of the tvs.

You mentioned that the hardware would be extra? It looks like rapidsatellite.com offers a free 5 room system (w/ 5 separate tuners); ever hear of them?

BTW, no HD, local,internationals or any special programming from the sat. provider.

-Thanks

 

[chaddux]

You can use dual-tuners which, if connected to a phone line, will save you some of 5/month additional receiver fees. And if you do like he said and use a receiver for several TVs not normally used at the same time, you can get a UHF Pro antenna/remote to attach to the receiver and take the remote from room to room (or buy extra remotes) and change that receiver in the extra rooms.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I'm sorry, it takes too much time to translate your terminology to reality.

Feed cables from the dish do NOT connect to a television. They connect to TUNERS. There can be one or two tuners in a receiver. A single TUNER can provide signal to a potentially unlimited number of televisions - as long as those TVs all want to watch the same show.

So, while I now know that you only need a basic Dish 500, I still do not know if you need 4 TUNERS or 5. If you need 4, it's trivial - a Quad LNBF does the job. If it's 5, a Twin LNBF plus a DP34 plus a DP21 will do the job. That's the least expensive way to git-r-done. The installer probably will not understand that a DP-21 can be cascaded (key word - cascade outputs) with a DP-34. Once you tell him that, the light bulb should go on.

Each TUNER requires it's own wire from the dish or switch. I will not confuse the issue by talking about a DPP44 and DPP Separator that can be used with 2-tuner boxes.

As for the broadband, some D* switches have an OTA antenna input that MIGHT work for broadband. E* switches do NOT have that feature at all - he will have to run his own wires, or use what's already in the house.

 

[wobbie]

If you'd like 5 recievers, or 5 "tuners" with Dish, you could run a Quad Lnb, take two lines into a 34switch which would allow you four lines outputs and the second pair of lines off the Quad Lnb would allow you the 5th and 6th receiver. Make few calls and see who is offering the best deal. There's a post "DIsh Network for Sale" He has 34 switches for sale, $35.00 I believe. Where are you located. Good luck, let us know the results.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Wobbie is correct - that way works, too.

Likely to be a little more expensive than Twin+DP34+DP21, but does allow for tuner #6.

 

[S43R80]

SimpleSimon: Sorry about the incorrect terminology, but (of course) when I say "to the television", I mean "to the tuner belonging to the television" - just easier.

Anyway, I do require 5 tuners.

Now, I will need ONLY one satellite dish, correct?

I like the idea of being "ready" for tuner # 6 in the future, so I would proably go the Quald LNB (w/ 2 lines sent to a 34 switch) option. What would dish network want to do for the standard installation (free). Can I request this option? Also, it kind of sounds like splitting; can this hurt the signal strength much?

Also, would this be the case for direct tv also? That is, would they use the same parts: Quad LNB + 34-switch?

 

[S43R80]

Also, someone in another thread (a direct tv thread) mentioned that a 3x8 switch would be used in an installation. A dual LNB would connect into the switch to produce 8 outputs (potentially for 8 tvs (err, I mean tuners ). Is this not the case here?

Also, is the 3rd input to the 3x8 for local channels through a cable provider?

 

[ShadowEKU]

Simons ways are the Best. I trusted in him for my install and alot of other people have too.

Note: No Im not providing an ego boost simon im endorsing you.

Alas I cannot see how you have 5 people in your house watching 5 different channels at the same time... thats crazy.

A 3x8 MultiSwitch only works for D* stuff for multiple reasons. But your assumption is 98% correct about plugging in there.

E* has no such device that Allows for regular cable to be plugged in other than at the tuners (requiring regular cable to be run everywhere as well as the sat feeds) E* switches are only for sat feeds... no plugging regular cable or OTA stuff in (in normal cases) to those.

 

[S43R80]

Alas I cannot see how you have 5 people in your house watching 5 different channels at the same time... thats crazy.

A 3x8 MultiSwitch only works for D* stuff for multiple reasons. But your assumption is 98% correct about plugging in there.

Heah, my house is pretty much a zoo right now: Sister moved back and some relatives (3) that we will have staying with us for another 6 months or so. At times between 9PM-12AM in the evening, 5 TVs will most likely be occupied.

And, we will be sharing (master/slave setup) one of the 5 tuners w/ a 6th televsion...

What do you mean by 98% correct?

 

[ShadowEKU]

What do you mean by 98% correct?

The reason the 3rd input *can* be used for regular analog tv is because its on a much lower frequency... kindof like DSL and Phone they operate oin the same line in 2 different frequency ranges

The problem here is that Digital Cable and Cable internet operate on the same essential frequency as the sat tuners.... theres a reason you need 2.4ghz rated cable.

Ive heard horror stories of cable men coming in and trying that approach and not getting a conection on either digital cable or the cable modem. IUve also heard success stories.

LLuck of the draw on that one

 

[mwarhoo]

Newby in the room

I have just had a 3 room system det-up installed by dish network. (2-301, 1-510). I have just purchased/obtained 2 additional 301 tuners in the box independently from dish network. I need an independent tuner in each of the three bedrooms, a tuner to be shared with a 4th bedroom and living room, and a fifth tuner to be shared between 2 TVs in a bar setting. Can anyone tell me the best way to accomplish this?

 

[S43R80]

The local channels would not be digital, so there wouldn't be a problem, correct?

Does anyone out there have local channels + broadband from their cable providers? Were there any problems?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Lots to reply to since last night.

First - thanks Shadow, it's nice to be appreciated - and I notice you're giving back to the community - that's appreciated, too.

Now, S43R80 (gosh, we should be on first name basis by now ).

I emphasize correct terminology because the public is reading this - let' not confuse them. Also, believe it or not, I had a customer that called me for service because she wasn't getting any satellite TV any more. She had bought a new "cable-ready" TV and so thought she didn't need the satellite receiver any more. Yeah, really. So - it's not "of course" to some folks.

Now - D* and E* have totally different ways of getting the signal from dish to tuner - there is no comparing the hardware or connections. Not that one is better than the other (some will argue with that statement ), they are just different.

D* has a 3x8 switch. E* has a DP34 - that can be cascaded. So hook 2 together and you've got a 3x8 equivalent.

If you think you'll need more than 6 tuners "soon", then consider a DP Twin+DP34+DP34. If 6 is your MAX, then, Quad+DP34. If 5 is your MAX, then Twin+DP34+DP21. If you can figure out what a max of 7 or 9 might be, then you've got this whole thing nailed.

Don't read below here until you think about it, OK?



Note that the third input of the DP34 will be unused for your setup - which is the only reason the DP21 can be used to get that one additional tuner.

Now, as to cable locals and broadband. A quick explanation of "where" the signals live on the cable. DishPro satellite is 950-2150MHz. Analog cable TV is around 60-850MHz. I believe Broadband is down around 40MHz - not up in the GHz ranges. There may be exceptions to that last, but I don't think so. Shadow one or the other or both of us are right on this one.

Using various devices like diplexers, combiners, and blockers, you can put all of these signals on the same wire, but it gets messy - sometimes real messy.

Now, IIRC, you had a cable guy tell you the house needed rewiring. Question is why? Digital cable? Fine - satellite would have the same issues, but 'we' install new cable.

If your house wiring can support analog cable (your locals), it should support broadband. If that's all you need it for, cool.

Whew. Is it soup yet?

 

[S43R80]

Lots to reply to since last night.

First - thanks Shadow, it's nice to be appreciated - and I notice you're giving back to the community - that's appreciated, too.

Now, S43R80 (gosh, we should be on first name basis by now ).

You are right, sorry...the name's Steven; nice to meet you.

I understood everything you have said, thanks again! Heah, they should be paying you to post here .

Well, I'll let you know what I end up doing. Thanks again all.

 

[ShadowEKU]

Now, as to cable locals and broadband. A quick explanation of "where" the signals live on the cable. DishPro satellite is 950-2150MHz. Analog cable TV is around 60-850MHz. I believe Broadband is down around 40MHz - not up in the GHz ranges. There may be exceptions to that last, but I don't think so. Shadow one or the other or both of us are right on this one.

Ok Simon I went and did some reading.... Cable modem signals reside in the 5-42mhz range on most docsis networks.

There are exceptions but simon you are spot on on that one. all i can say is wow

 

[maximum]

Heah, my house is pretty much a zoo right now: Sister moved back and some relatives (3) that we will have staying with us for another 6 months or so. At times between 9PM-12AM in the evening, 5 TVs will most likely be occupied.

I remember growing up in a family of seven with only one TV. My mom used to say "We already have one too many TVs in the house." But there were only about five channels back then so there wasn't that much to watch.

Have we become a boob tube addicted society or what? :shocked

 

[ShadowEKU]

I remember growing up in a family of seven with only one TV. My mom used to say "We already have one too many TVs in the house." But there were only about five channels back then so there wasn't that much to watch.

Have we become a boob tube addicted society or what? :shocked

My cousin when buiding his house installed a television in the master bathroom and the laundry room... nuff said

 

[ajohnson]

You had FIVE channels? We had two, unless you count the uhf spanish one, the uhf asian one, and the occasional one we got if we held a coat hanger on the rabbit ears .... and we were HAPPY!