Dish Asks Appeal Court to Allow Recording-Service Use

[David_Levin]

Sounds like a DMA memory controller

Tivo Media Switch is a 3 port bi-directional hardware device used to pass input source stream directly to HDD and from HDD to output bypassing the CPU and enabling a DVR to use a slow cheap CPU's cutting the cost to build a DVR by more then 50% savings.

Crap, I hate these patents. Anyone here ever herd of a DMA hard drive controller (vs PIO mode which hasn't been used for 20 years)?

TiVo really didn't invent this.

"hardware device" - I don't think this is the patent currently being reviewed. Wasn't it a software patent have to do with indexing into mpeg files to provide for smooth trick-play operation?

(Don't want to get sucked into a war - I'm going to shut-up now).

 

[Stargazer]

Tivo is setting an example out of Dish. If they win this they will win against others. If they lose this then they will lose against others. This will set a precident for what Tivo will be able to do as far as going after others. This is why Tivo is fighting this so hard. All they have to do is refer back to this case against Dish and most likely win any other lawsuit they have against anybody else they choose.

 

[tlc1145]

Basically, Dish is trying to get some time so they can gradually change everyone over to the newer ViP series rcvrs instead of having to do it all at once.

 

[tom231]

So if Tivo wins this lawsuit are they going to go after Direct and all of the cable companies? What about U-Verse? Why didn't Tivo bring suit against everybody who is using DVR technology?
I'm just asking, kinda new to this lawsuit thing and it's kind of facinating to me. BTW, I have a VIP 622, that I love, so i'm kinda glad i'm safe for now.

 

[dishcomm]

Two things..
One, a judge cannot make a decsion that would potentially put a company out of business. It it outside any single judge's province to make such a ruling unless there is a clear violation of law.
In this case it appears through all the battles, Dish's violation if any, is not "clear".
Second. It is my opinion that TiVO wants to be purchased.
SO if TiVO prevails in order for DIsh/E* to handle the ruling, they would in turn purchase TiVO...
But, how much would any of you wish to bet that D* would go ballistic if E* tried to buy TiVO...

 

[navychop]

<sigh, having just found and read thru thread.> Chicken Little lives!

 

[David_Levin]

So if Tivo wins this lawsuit are they going to go after Direct and all of the cable companies? What about U-Verse? Why didn't Tivo bring suit against everybody who is using DVR technology?

TiVo already has deals in place with DirecTV and Comcast.

TiVo has recently hit Vorizon and AT&T (TiVo Files Complaints for Patent Infringement Against AT&T and Verizon Communications in United States District Court, Eastern District of Texas; Seeking Damages and Injunction - Aug 26, 2009).

 

[tom231]

Thanks David, that clears things up a bit. I didn't know they had deals in place with some providers. So that tells me that Dish didn't want to play ball, so they got sued ?

 

[riffjim4069]

The VIP Series 622, 722 and 922 would not be shutoff because
they are hardware based not software based?

I believe the patents refer to a process. Regardless, Tivo has not moved to join the ViP Series DVRs to the list of infringing models. Why? Perhaps they are busy fighting the current issue with E*, perhaps they waiting for the appeals process to bolster further actions (presedence) or perhaps they don't have a case. Anyway, at this rate I expect we'll still be discussing this case in 2015.

 

[Pepper]

What do you call a bus full of lawyers at the bottom of a ravine? A good start.

 

[david_jr]

Two things..
One, a judge cannot make a decsion that would potentially put a company out of business. It it outside any single judge's province to make such a ruling unless there is a clear violation of law.
In this case it appears through all the battles, Dish's violation if any, is not "clear".
Second. It is my opinion that TiVO wants to be purchased.
SO if TiVO prevails in order for DIsh/E* to handle the ruling, they would in turn purchase TiVO...
But, how much would any of you wish to bet that D* would go ballistic if E* tried to buy TiVO...

I believe DISH is appealing the contempt ruling and the ruling that they continue to infringe. If they lose on both it means big money to Tivo on top of what they have already paid. This would still not put Dish out of business, but would hurt its customers in the wallet. If Tivo loses it might put them out of business because their business model at this point is to sue DVR makers over patent infringement believing that only they can make a DVR legally and a loss would hurt future business badly.

So you believe that the judge will rule for Tivo so as not to put them out of business?

 

[DishSubLA]

Looks more and more like DISH is anticipating a loss.

This is Damage Control.

This is the required dance in the appeals process. It has no bearing on whether either side is likely to win or lose. Typical legal process.

 

[DishSubLA]

The VIP Series 622, 722 and 922 would not be shutoff because
they are hardware based not software based?

No DVR's will be shut off. If Dish ultimately losesDish will pay Tivo to keep "infringing" DVR's functioning--until Charley changes them all out with "non-infringing " DVR's. Yes, it would be expensive, but he will do it rather than pay Tivo one more Penney than he has to, or, in other words, just to deny Tivo their monthly payments.

 

[DishSubLA]

So if Tivo wins this lawsuit are they going to go after Direct and all of the cable companies? What about U-Verse? Why didn't Tivo bring suit against everybody who is using DVR technology?
I'm just asking, kinda new to this lawsuit thing and it's kind of facinating to me. BTW, I have a VIP 622, that I love, so i'm kinda glad i'm safe for now.

They are suing AT&T, along with Verizon just very recently. But the point of your question is valid, and the answer is that if your company is in serious discussions with TiVo, TiVo won't sue. Your question was posed to TiVo CEO Tom Rogers and he said this and basically that if you aren't in talk with TiVo, he [TiVo] will sue you.

The real question is this: Why isn't TiVo suing the box manufacturers such as Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, etc.? It is their hardware and, often, software. Instead TiVo is going after a number of TV providers, Dish, and the latest Verizon and AT&T. Rogers was asked this very question--why the providers and not the box makers--and he hemmed and hawed and seemed at a loss for words, and never answered the question. Later Rogers specifically said that the reason they chose to sue Verizon and AT&T is because those providers had no interest in using TiVo's software, meaning what talks they had went nowhere with Verizon and AT&T just not interested.

It is becoming clear that TiVo has no legitimate patent in truth, but a ruling in their favor from a "rouge court" as described by one U.S. Chief Justice, where rulings in plaintiff's favor are inordinately high when compared with any other court handling patent cases, in a town--Tyler, Tx-- that depends greatly on the rouge court for all its current riches with TiVo buying a pig at a local auction and paying far more than anyone would have bid and all the local lawyers the outside firms hire who seem to be the favored of juries--locals, as well-- there. Just the number of people in town for long periods with cases in the court make a lot of money for lodgers and eateries and other expensive things the rich law firms and wealthy lawyers like to buy or have. One could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

 

[Jhon69]

Too bad they couldn't just be able to disable the recording on my 625 but keep my 2-120 minute live buffers enabled because with those live buffers I hardly ever find a need to record anything.

As for changing out my 625 with a ViP? I would have to say no thanks live buffers are not big enough just send me a 311.

The sad part of this Tivo vs Dish thing is Dish has the better technology,think Tivo sees the writing on the wall?.

 

[tempVAdish]

They are suing AT&T, along with Verizon just very recently. But the point of your question is valid, and the answer is that if your company is in serious discussions with TiVo, TiVo won't sue. Your question was posed to TiVo CEO Tom Rogers and he said this and basically that if you aren't in talk with TiVo, he [TiVo] will sue you.

The real question is this: Why isn't TiVo suing the box manufacturers such as Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, etc.? It is their hardware and, often, software. Instead TiVo is going after a number of TV providers, Dish, and the latest Verizon and AT&T. Rogers was asked this very question--why the providers and not the box makers--and he hemmed and hawed and seemed at a loss for words, and never answered the question. Later Rogers specifically said that the reason they chose to sue Verizon and AT&T is because those providers had no interest in using TiVo's software, meaning what talks they had went nowhere with Verizon and AT&T just not interested.

It is becoming clear that TiVo has no legitimate patent in truth, but a ruling in their favor from a "rouge court" as described by one U.S. Chief Justice, where rulings in plaintiff's favor are inordinately high when compared with any other court handling patent cases, in a town--Tyler, Tx-- that depends greatly on the rouge court for all its current riches with TiVo buying a pig at a local auction and paying far more than anyone would have bid and all the local lawyers the outside firms hire who seem to be the favored of juries--locals, as well-- there. Just the number of people in town for long periods with cases in the court make a lot of money for lodgers and eateries and other expensive things the rich law firms and wealthy lawyers like to buy or have. One could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

So, if they're not using their software, what's the basis of their suit? Just to have one in standby when they lose to Dish??? If I were a judge & heard that statement... "why are you here?.... bye.... see 'ya...."

 

[ssmaniac]

What do you call a bus full of lawyers at the bottom of a ravine? A good start.

Not to get off topic, or hijack the thread, but do you really want a busload of men and women to die in some sort of fiery crash at the bottom of a ravine because they chose a profession whose job it is to help people or corporations? I know its a joke, but your little funny is about 20 years old. Hilarious. Thanks for your contribution to the meaningful discussion on this board. Maybe that bus should have the likes of Nelson Mandela, Mohandes K. Gandhi, Clarence Darrow, Abraham Lincoln and President and Michelle Obama...

Now: On topic--The court of appeals will not and cannot disturb the finding by the jury from 2006 that there was infringement. The issue before the court of appeals presently is the contempt finding, award of damages for Dish's contempt, and order to stop using certain DVR functionality. These matters are generally left to the discretion of the trial court, so I believe the court of appeals will uphold the District Court's ruling. It remains to be seen (and litigated) whether the ViP and other models that were not part of the original suit also infringe the patent...

 

[high def mon]

Just wondering has TIVO showed a profit yet?

 

[RVD420]

Two things..
One, a judge cannot make a decsion that would potentially put a company out of business. It it outside any single judge's province to make such a ruling unless there is a clear violation of law.
In this case it appears through all the battles, Dish's violation if any, is not "clear".
Second. It is my opinion that TiVO wants to be purchased.
SO if TiVO prevails in order for DIsh/E* to handle the ruling, they would in turn purchase TiVO...
But, how much would any of you wish to bet that D* would go ballistic if E* tried to buy TiVO...

Dish/Echostar can't purchase Tivo. There is a nasty poison pill clause that makes the purchase of Tivo darn near impossible.

 

[navychop]

Poison pills can be negotiated. They, too, are a tactic.