Dish doesn't do metal roofs?

[multnomah]

I had ordered an upgrade to my service today (replacing a DISH 500 with a DISH 1000) so I could get Eurovision on 118.7. I was deeply disappointed when the installer refused to do it because I have a metal roof, and he says DISH doesn't allow work on metal roofs. What really upset me, though, is that he took a look at my system spsecs on the 622 and determined that a) the LNB on 61.5 is failiing and b) I do not have an LNB for 129.

Since he is categorically forbidden to work on metal roofs, he would not fix the failing LNB. Instead, he gave me an old and badly weathered one that he had in his truck, and said there would be no charge. His supervisor backed him up and said the work order would be written up as 'no line of sight' even though I have unobstructetd acceess from the roof.

There are trees along the side of the house.

I asked where this policy came from and he said it came down from DISH and all installers would do the same thing.

If this is true, then I can never have any repairs or upgrades done.

Does anyone know about this policy, or have any of you found a way around it?

 

[boba]

You might try an independent dealer in your area.

 

[farmsatguy]

Metal expands and contracts too much due to weather conditions so, despite what anyone says, it is nearly impossible to guarantee that the mast will stay sealed to the roof properly to prevent leaks. No GOOD installer will mount to metal. If you find one who will, then I'd say he doesn't really care about policy and procedure...is that someone you really want doing your install?

An earlier post suggested a 3rd dish for 118.7...this sat is an FSS bird, not a DBS so it needs to be a surface area much larger than the D500 to get signal from an FSS LNB.

What I'm not clear on is if this is an upgrade, why couldn't he put the D500+/1000+ where the current dish is? Is it already on the roof? (I wouldn't upgrade either in that case because we techs 'own' the job for a length of time and I wouldn't take a chance of buying someone a new roof even if everything has been OK so far). Or, is it on a pole? (I would have done it in that case unless line of sight was an issue).

I'm on the east coast so we don't use 129 as the HD locals come in on 61.5. However, your market may need 129 for something region specific that I'm not aware of. I'd find out from a CSR why you specifically need 129 (or more to the point, what would you not get in programming without it). If you're getting 119 & 110, there's no reason that 118.7 should be a problem aside from the mounting location. But if you don't need 129, leave 61.5 where it is and upgrde the 500 to the 500+ to add 118.7 to your mix. Someone posted that the channel you want (Eurovision I think from the other post) is also on 61.5...have you asked a CSR to confirm to turn it on if it is so...

 

[rglore]

I get the same sats and Eurovision is on 61.5. I just called and had it added for a couple of dollars.

 

[multnomah]

What I'm not clear on is if this is an upgrade, why couldn't he put the D500+/1000+ where the current dish is? Is it already on the roof?

There are two dishes on the roof now, one on the left side of a wooden dormer and the other on the dormer itself. He said the one on the left (SE side) was the one that pointed to 61.5 and needed a new LNB, and he would not replace it. He said the one on the right needed to be replaced, and the antenna he was bringing me weighed 30 pounds and was so wide that the edge of it would not clear the dormer.

I didn't ask him about a D500+ because I don't know what that is.

I should add that my metal roof is very steep, and my house is very tall (three stories). The initial installation three years ago went OK I think because the installer was taller than this guy and had longer arms. I am shorter than either of them, and I can't reach the 61.5 dish to put in the used LNB that today's installer left me.

There is nothing I want on 129 that I can't get on 61.5, but it looks like I may not be able to get either one. I am trying to find another installer (Portland Oregon).

Eurochannel (I said 'Eurovision' by mistake) is not available on 61.5, only on 118.7. Euronews is available on 61.5. I get Euronews now.

 

[levibluewa]

Probably a size thing...

Shall I assume the 500+ and the 1000+ are the same size dish??? Experts respond. Regardless of the metal roof I know they like to mount the 1000+ with leg supports...more drilling into the metal roof perhaps. Also (if they are the same size 500 & 1000+) perhaps there is a clearance issue.

Again, if you're in the NW and can hit the 61.5 count your blessings. Why would you want 129, oh FSNW, well that is a reason.

 

[multnomah]

OK, progress! I found a local installer who will work on the roof. Farmsatguy, I appreciate your concern about creating leaky roofs, but if the alternatives are Comcast or a leaking roof, I will take a new LNB and put a bucket under the dish.

There is a problem with hiring local installers, however. The customer isn't allowed to request an installer for existing installations, only for new ones, even though the installer I 'found' is the original contractor who installed my dishes three years ago. Now, he says that I will have to cancel my service with DISH and take out a new account in my wife's name in order to make it a 'new' install so he can work on it, or else pay time and materials for the installation myself, which he things will run $200 - 300. Todays install would have been free provided I committed to DISH for another two years.

What further complicates things is that I am not done with my commitment period to the 622 upgrade, so I am going to wind up paying a lot of money either way.

Nevertheless, I am considerably calmer now that I know that I at least have some options.

 

[multnomah]

Shall I assume the 500+ and the 1000+ are the same size dish??? Experts respond. Regardless of the metal roof I know they like to mount the 1000+ with leg supports...more drilling into the metal roof perhaps. Also (if they are the same size 500 & 1000+) perhaps there is a clearance issue.

Again, if you're in the NW and can hit the 61.5 count your blessings. Why would you want 129, oh FSNW, well that is a reason.

Actually I don't want FSNW. More importantly, I don't have an LNB for 129, only for 110 and 119 on one dish, and for 61.5 on the other. I want to stick with 61.5, but the LNB is failing and I need to get a replacement.

The dish he had in his truck weighed 30 pounds and came with leg supports that would have required drilling. One option would have been to mount them on the side of the wooden dormer, but to do that he would have had to actually step out onto the roof, and that he absolutely refused to do (and I wouldn't do it either, actually).

I don't know a 500+ from a 1000+. This morning's installer said I needed a big dish because I would be pulling in three satellites (110, 118.7, ad 119) and the smaller dishes didn't come with enough LNB's for three satellites.

 

[topcat0399]

Actually I don't want FSNW. More importantly, I don't have an LNB for 129, only for 110 and 119 on one dish, and for 61.5 on the other. I want to stick with 61.5, but the LNB is failing and I need to get a replacement.

The dish he had in his truck weighed 30 pounds and came with leg supports that would have required drilling. One option would have been to mount them on the side of the wooden dormer, but to do that he would have had to actually step out onto the roof, and that he absolutely refused to do (and I wouldn't do it either, actually).

I don't know a 500+ from a 1000+. This morning's installer said I needed a big dish because I would be pulling in three satellites (110, 118.7, ad 119) and the smaller dishes didn't come with enough LNB's for three satellites.

a 500+ dish and a 1000+ dish are one and the same. one just has an extra lnb on it. it is a LARGE dish and MUST have the support arms.

just because some clown decided to mount on a metal roof (get the job in and get paid!!!!).....doesnt obligate other installers to continue his sillyness at thier expense. i wouldnt touch it either. i touch it, i own it. customer decides to complain - i own all of it now. no way!.

you might have to get a retailer to do it if possible - at thier rates.

unfortunately the only way to get the 118.7 thru Dishnetwork is with the big dish. they dont make a small FSS type dish.

it would be best to find another place for that /those dishes if possible.

 

[farmsatguy]

OK, progress! I found a local installer who will work on the roof. Farmsatguy, I appreciate your concern about creating leaky roofs, but if the alternatives are Comcast or a leaking roof, I will take a new LNB and put a bucket under the dish.

There is a problem with hiring local installers, however. The customer isn't allowed to request an installer for existing installations, only for new ones, even though the installer I 'found' is the original contractor who installed my dishes three years ago. Now, he says that I will have to cancel my service with DISH and take out a new account in my wife's name in order to make it a 'new' install so he can work on it, or else pay time and materials for the installation myself, which he things will run $200 - 300. Todays install would have been free provided I committed to DISH for another two years.

What further complicates things is that I am not done with my commitment period to the 622 upgrade, so I am going to wind up paying a lot of money either way.

Nevertheless, I am considerably calmer now that I know that I at least have some options.

This isn't entirely accurate. It is true that you cannot request a specific installer/retailer when setting up a work order, but that has little relevance. All the installer has to do is contact his hub, give them your phone number and the date the work order is scheduled (or rescheduled) to be done. The hub will then assign the work order under his tech number/retailer number. I do this all the time. Be careful here...I'm not calling anyone dishonest, but this scenario is being manipulated to benefit him as a new service pays more while hurting you as you have to pay to break contract. Perhaps there's something I'm not seeing here for your benefit, but I know for a FACT that the upgrade can be assigned directly to him if he requests it.

 

[farmsatguy]

Topcat, I agree the struts are a must for this heavier dish (same as the super dish a few years ago)...either we should put it in right or not at all. Unfortunately there are way too many 'jack-legs' out there making a quick buck leaving us to clean it up! In 11+ years, I've had to do way too much clean up and it bites that the original install paid someone well to do it right and then I get a fraction to finish it and actually make it right! Grrrrr......

 

[nelson61]

Why do you want it on a three story steeply pitched roof? I'd plant a new one on the ground where it can safely be repaired when necessary.

 

[multnomah]

So I phoned DISH to cancel my Eurochannel subscription, and they said, of course we do metal roofs! No problem! They gave me a time slot for Sunday morning with a different contractor and said there will be no charge for the service, and no 24-month required commitment.

Farmsatguy and Topcat0399 have convinced me that I am facing serious trade-offs in this installation, so maybe the next installer will refuse also. I won't start counting my chickens yet.

Farmsatguy, I understand that my original installer might be trying to get more money from DISH for a 'new install'. It's a tricky one, and I think they owe it to him. I still owe $100 on my 622/HD upgrade, so I think that if this Sunday's installation doesn't go well, I will just hire the guy at the retail rate myself.

 

[multnomah]

Why do you want it on a three story steeply pitched roof? I'd plant a new one on the ground where it can safely be repaired when necessary.

It faces the back yard, where there are trees, bushes, and behind them more three-story houses like mine. The mast would have to be 40' high to have a chance.

 

[iwc5893]

So I phoned DISH to cancel my Eurochannel subscription, and they said, of course we do metal roofs! No problem! They gave me a time slot for Sunday morning with a different contractor and said there will be no charge for the service, and no 24-month required commitment.

Farmsatguy and Topcat0399 have convinced me that I am facing serious trade-offs in this installation, so maybe the next installer will refuse also. I won't start counting my chickens yet.

Farmsatguy, I understand that my original installer might be trying to get more money from DISH for a 'new install'. It's a tricky one, and I think they owe it to him. I still owe $100 on my 622/HD upgrade, so I think that if this Sunday's installation doesn't go well, I will just hire the guy at the retail rate myself.

Most CSR's (for both satcos) have no clue what is considered allowed and not allowed as part of an install and they will always say that they do that type of work.

IIRC, there was something floating around this site about 6 months or so ago about Dish techs were now required to secure a safety line anytime they went onto a roof. Basically, they had to screw a lag screw into your roof so they could attach a harness to it while mounting your dish. Then they had to reseal the hole once they were done so it wouldn't leak.

Like farmsatguy said, there are serious issues/consequences to mounting to a metal roof, the least of which is expansion and contraction due to heating, and the inability to keep a watertight seal over time.

 

[rcdallas]

I think the installer did right by just giving you a used LNB and pretty much saying do it yourself.

Whoever put the existing dish on the metal roof is an idiot.

 

[TalonDancer]

Dish does do installs on some metal roofs. But maybe not on high pitch 2-3 story metal roofs with risky access

My Dish 1000.2 and Dish 500 are mounted right next to each other on the lower eve of a metal roof with a 3:12 pitch. The Dish 1000.2 was installed by an independent retailer in the summer of 2006. The Dish 500 was installed in the spring of 2008. Both installs were done from a step ladder. So no one has been "on the roof". The screws go into the 2x6 purlins under the metal for strength. Leaking is not a problem because it is in the eve area of an exposed rafter roof. Any water that leaked around the screws would simply drop on the ground.

Talon Dancer

 

[multnomah]

Most CSR's (for both satcos) have no clue what is considered allowed and not allowed as part of an install and they will always say that they do that type of work.

IIRC, there was something floating around this site about 6 months or so ago about Dish techs were now required to secure a safety line anytime they went onto a roof. Basically, they had to screw a lag screw into your roof so they could attach a harness to it while mounting your dish. Then they had to reseal the hole once they were done so it wouldn't leak.

Like farmsatguy said, there are serious issues/consequences to mounting to a metal roof, the least of which is expansion and contraction due to heating, and the inability to keep a watertight seal over time.

I never asked the installer to go out on the roof, and if he had offered, I would have said not unless he had a good harness and knew how to use it.

The dormer is wooden, and has some fairly heavy beams. If the installer had had a harness, he could have secured himself to the dormer, gone out on the roof, and then mounted the new dish to the side of the dormer, without drilling any holes in metal at all. I have never had an installer show up with a harness before, so I didn't realize this was an option.

You guys obviously know this business well, so here's another question. Therer is space on the side of the house above the trees for a dish, and I just got through paying someone last year to hang mylar reflectors up there to scare away the woodpeckers. The gutters start at about 30', so I guess that would require a 40' ladder. The guy yesterday said that installers aren't required to use ladders that high. Is that correct? If so, could I hire the mylar guy, who is bonded and will do it for maybe $200, to do the ladder part of the installation, with the DISH guy staying inside?

 

[multnomah]

Dish does do installs on some metal roofs. But maybe not on high pitch 2-3 story metal roofs with risky access

My Dish 1000.2 and Dish 500 are mounted right next to each other on the lower eve of a metal roof with a 3:12 pitch. The Dish 1000.2 was installed by an independent retailer in the summer of 2006. The Dish 500 was installed in the spring of 2008. Both installs were done from a step ladder. So no one has been "on the roof". The screws go into the 2x6 purlins under the metal for strength. Leaking is not a problem because it is in the eve area of an exposed rafter roof. Any water that leaked around the screws would simply drop on the ground.

Talon Dancer

Thanks! That's a good idea! My roof overhangs quite a bit, and depending on where the struts go, it might be possible to drill all the holes over the flowerbed, or two over the flowerbed and one on the dormer.

 

[rcdallas]

My shop had a 40' ladder, I think I was the only one that ever used it when I was there. It's a pain to deal with that, getting extra help all setup to help with moving/setting it up. I sat for at least two hours for help to show up.

If the mylar guy goes up there, does he know how to tune the dish? I bet trying to coordinate both people out there will be plentiful. My guess is the dish installer will decline on that due to potential trouble call reasons that tech's are faced with. I doubt I would of ever allowed it.

Sounds like it'll be a great deal to setup, might have better luck through a local retailer/installer.

One thing you have to think about is if anything ever went wrong with the dish that required service, think about what you'll be going through just to get it fixed, let alone the problems your having just to get it installed. Sounds like the job will likely get rescheduled several times for safety or whatever reason came up with.

Putting a dish that high up would likely have issues with alignment due to wind, probably just a repeat problem.

Is a pole mount an option?