Dish installer just arrived: No 1000 dish, need 2 seperate?

[Scott Greczkowski]

For many installers they need to get X number of installs done a day to make decent money and a two dish install like this would be frowned upon by most installers because it slows them down too much, so they just get lazy and report no line of sight and they are off to their next job.

I went with a friend of mine a few weeks ago to check out some NLOS his installer reported (He was reporting 3 or 4 a day)

We went and looked and some we easy to do, with no LOS issues, others were more tricky but again we found somewhere on the property to put the dish in and have full line of sight to the satellites we needed.

In a couple cases we went to their house and someone else already came by and installed their satellite system for them.

My friend actually fired this installer because he was losing money because the installer was lazy.

 

[rowemance]

I acually offer Dish in my area to audit the no LOS within 10 miles of our store for free if I could sell the customer and do the install if I found line of sight and was told no.
I acually lost a customer due to our RSP saying no line of sight on a 2nd dish install for locals that only Dish was aloud to do at the time, They even sent out a supervisor who said no LOS. The customer said take it out he was fed up with Dish and didn't want them but I talk him in to letting me put the 2nd Dish on the house to prove it could be due and I did it in 15 min videotaped it and sent it to Dish corporate. Last I heard from a friend of mine the tape was making the rounds and came accross her bosses desk some 3 months later.

 

[coolbreeze]

Well I called Dish back 3 times and finally found someone who was willing to go to bat for me. I explained the situation to the rep and he said the installer must have been lazy (didn't expect that). He said they will send out another installer tomorrow from 12-5. He was optimistic that this installer can find a good LOS, especially since I have DirecTV (with a 90-95% sig strength at all times).

Here's to hoping this works. I want Dish so bad...

 

[KE4EST]

Good Luck!!

 

[ScottChez]

I know there are some Installer / Techs on this board. I did not mean to insult any, the installers here are all smart and very hard working ones, after all they take the time to go here to help others and to learn more.

Its the installers that never visit any DBS forums or even know what one is and have no idea what there doing with DBS and are lazy in it for a quick buck that we are talking about.

 

[dishcomm]

So my first surprise of the installation. He does have a 622 HD receiver, but they are "out" of the 1000 model dish, so he has to install 2 dishes on my roof. Very hesitantly, I agree to this.

What's the downside? I have a good deal of trees in my back yard, so I'm wondering if this will make my reception risk 2-fold.

Wonder why they didn't mention this to me when I spoke with them to begin with? Not a good first impression.

No risk..many times the customer does not have a line of sight to the 129 and the HD programming is mirrored off the 61.5..Also, the signal strength is better of the wing dish..It's fine.

 

[dishcomm]

Here is the other side this (we need Pros and Cons). . . .

I would go with the Dish 1000 as some in your neighborhood might complain as it looks like Mickey Mouse up there.

I know several complained about mine. Now I have a Dish 1000, looks great, and no signal problems as I live in the midwest. (On the East coast is it better to have Two Dishes though). Dish installed the 1000 for free at my request.

"What do you think this is Disney" is what one said to me.


It even says in the neighborhood covenence that only ONE dish is allowed per house.

Check your covenenence FIRST!

I know its hard to imposible to inforce a convenence rule, but you know how some neighbors can be. Its like you broke the rules (even though they cant stand up in court) now your the bad guy.

The HOA can scream form the rooftops..They have NO say in the matter....The exeptions to the FCC fact sheet on dish placement are...If the antenna is larger than one meter in diameter or the home is located in Registered National Historic District.....There is no limit to the amount of antennas...HOA's may not unreasonably deny access to satellite tv or cause unecessary expense.

from fcc.gov.."A: The rule prohibits restrictions that impair a person's ability to install, maintain, or use an antenna covered by the rule. The rule applies to state or local laws or regulations, including zoning, land-use or building regulations, private covenants, homeowners' association rules, condominium or cooperative association restrictions, lease restrictions, or similar restrictions on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has an ownership or leasehold interest in the property. A restriction impairs if it: (1) unreasonably delays or prevents use of; (2) unreasonably increases the cost of; or (3) precludes a person from receiving or transmitting an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the rule. The rule does not prohibit legitimate safety restrictions or restrictions designed to preserve designated or eligible historic or prehistoric properties, provided the restriction is no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the safety or preservation purpose.

and...."Therefore, a local rule may not, for example, allow only one antenna if more than one antenna is necessary to receive the desired service. "...

\Sorry for the long post but I am getting pretty sick of this HOA crap.

 

[dishcomm]

Well the installer already packed up shop and sped away.

Now I'm seriously pissed b/c DirecTV may not work either (HD sats) and Comcast in my area is horrible. I have a 42" HDTV on the way and don't have a good signal source lined up.

This is fantastic.

Some properties just are not able to receive satellite signals due to obstructions...I will survey the entire proeprty before I come to a conclusion.....However there are times when just driving up to a home I can tell there's no hope....
If your home is in a heavily wooded area it's usually a no go.....Most installers get paid by the job..There is no incentive to walk away from a job because the tech ends up making nothing...That's not good.....

 

[dishcomm]

Yes call Dish ask for the Supervisor Tech to come out for a tree survery.

Dish wants your business and they will pay the Tech to come out.

Just be sure to tell them you have Direct TV and it is working.

I bet you got a beginner tech and he does not know the Electrical Code about moving the dish to a play where it will work AND it will still be in code in terms of grounding. The SuperVisor Tech will know the Code.

JUst a minute.....you're talking apples and oranges here..Electrical codes have little to do with line of sight in this poster's case..He has stated that he has many trees obstructing the LOS..he also stated that he cannot get DTV either....We installlers are not all lazy assed jerks.....You imply that just because the poster had a negative site survey , the installer is at fault or is a beginnner....Right away you recommend the "rat squad".......give us a break here..Some of us like to work and like making a living even more.......

 

[HCI]

THink about it. Direct TV is as 110 The 129 is not that far off in the sky.

Directv is at 101. It is a huge difference in the location between 101 and 129. 101 here comes in at about a 50 degree angle and 129 comes in at alittle over a 30 degree angle. It is still a big difference in 110 and 129, 110 is at a 44 degree angle while again 129 is at a 30 degree angle.

Depending on where he is at these numbers will be differant but it will still be quite a bit of difference.

 

[dishcomm]

Any chance of locating the dishes on the other side of those trees? Might make for a long cable run, but I believe 200' is technically OK with DPP equipment. The cables will need to be buried (preferrably in conduit in case you need to make future changes, but there are direct-burial types) and that might be expensive. If that would put them in your neighbor's yard, can you negotiate something with him? Where there's a will there's (usually) a way! YMMV...

Neighbor's yard?.....Are you joking?....BTW it's 200 feet limit to the first receiver.....That includes the cabling INSIDE the house.....
No cable "needs" to buried in conduit. And a tech is NOT going bury extra cable for future changes"...I won't unless the customer pays for it and he will pay handsomely..What you are describing is non standard and as such all costs would be borne by the customer.....Plus the added time which will more than likely back up into other customer's time slots....A good tech will delgate his time properly.....While all customers are equal, no one job should take precedence over others......

 

[VIPERS-PIT]

The HOA can scream form the rooftops..They have NO say in the matter....The exeptions to the FCC fact sheet on dish placement are...If the antenna is larger than one meter in diameter or the home is located in Registered National Historic District.....There is no limit to the amount of antennas...HOA's may not unreasonably deny access to satellite tv or cause unecessary expense.

from fcc.gov.."A: The rule prohibits restrictions that impair a person's ability to install, maintain, or use an antenna covered by the rule. The rule applies to state or local laws or regulations, including zoning, land-use or building regulations, private covenants, homeowners' association rules, condominium or cooperative association restrictions, lease restrictions, or similar restrictions on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has an ownership or leasehold interest in the property. A restriction impairs if it: (1) unreasonably delays or prevents use of; (2) unreasonably increases the cost of; or (3) precludes a person from receiving or transmitting an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the rule. The rule does not prohibit legitimate safety restrictions or restrictions designed to preserve designated or eligible historic or prehistoric properties, provided the restriction is no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the safety or preservation purpose.

and...."Therefore, a local rule may not, for example, allow only one antenna if more than one antenna is necessary to receive the desired service. "...

\Sorry for the long post but I am getting pretty sick of this HOA crap.

Can you PLEASE post the URL to this!!! I want to print it out for my HOA BEFORE I add FTA and starchoice to the 2 D* dishes and 1 E* dish on the house. And install the OTA ant!!!! They will be SOOOOO pissed!!!! f**k EM.

 

[VIPERS-PIT]

I hope they did not drill any holes in your roof before they discovered they had no LOS!!! When D* came out to put up my AT-9 they guy used a sight scope of some kind to make sure he could see all the sats even though the view to the SW was WIDE OPEN. He just wanted to be 200% sure BEFORE he did anything.

 

[dishcomm]

Well I just called Dish (800 #) and they told me that the local installer will automatically contact me for a second opinion. She told me this is the SOP for first time "no LOS" issues.

I question this b/c the installer had me sign a paper stating "no LOS" before he left, and told me my refund would be automatically processed. This makes me think my affair with Dish is over.

So do they really automatically try again? I asked her for a timeline as to when they will call me, she had no idea...up to the local installer.

Do I just wait on them to possibly call me?

You need not wait...Dish will schedule you for a second opinion if you wish.....A field supervisor will come ot your home and render the opinion...You need not be present..The Supe will tag your door top notify you of his findings...If the site survey is positive the note will direct you to call to reschedule your appointment...
The form you signed is a standard Dish Network Service agreement...On the bottom it has a place fo rthe customer to sign off on an install that was not completeted and the reason for non complete is stated ..Your signature is your indication that you agreed with the reason for the non complete....

 

[Derwin0]

Can you PLEASE post the URL to this!!! I want to print it out for my HOA BEFORE I add FTA and starchoice to the 2 D* dishes and 1 E* dish on the house. And install the OTA ant!!!! They will be SOOOOO pissed!!!! f**k EM.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

 

[maddawg]

I have three dishes installed on the front of my house and what can my neighbours say to me? Absoulutely nothing, I'm paying the damn mortgage.

 

[dishcomm]

Can you PLEASE post the URL to this!!! I want to print it out for my HOA BEFORE I add FTA and starchoice to the 2 D* dishes and 1 E* dish on the house. And install the OTA ant!!!! They will be SOOOOO pissed!!!! f**k EM.

www.fcc.gov..... in the sea...ut they cannot take a person's home away.....

 

[noremac]

The FCC has actually been challenged with respect to its regulations on the subject of multiple dish and terrestrial OTA antennas. And they have specifically affirmed the rights of homeowners to have multiple antennas! Here is the official FCC Order, and below is a news clip. Read it and smile:

The Federal Communication Commission (FCC) recently ruled that a homeowner association can not impose an arbitrary limit on the number of antennas a homeowner may install. In The Matter of Stanley and Vera Holliday, the owners installed five antennas and three satellite dishes on a structure consisting of six masts, secured by guy wires, in the rear of their lot. Five of the masts were 30 feet in height and were even with the owner’s roofline and one mast was ten feet in height. The antennas provided reception for ten television sets, nine video cassette recorders, and seven satellite receivers.

The association had previously filed suit in a state court, seeking to remove the devices on the grounds that the owners had failed to obtain prior approval for the installation of the antennas. The structure would not have been approved since the association's unwritten policy was that each owner was allowed only one satellite dish and one television antenna that extended no more than 12 feet above the roof line. The state court suit was suspended when the owners filed a petition with the FCC, seeking a determination that the association's restrictions of these devices were prohibited by the FCC’s Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule.

The FCC found that the association’s prior approval restrictions were invalid. It also ruled that the limit on the number and height of antennas and satellite dishes was prohibited, since it was arbitrary, and not justified by legitimate safety or historic preservation considerations. In rejecting the Association’s limit on the number of devices, the FCC ruled that a viewer may install as many antennas as necessary to receive all available video programming in the viewing area, provided the equipment is not duplicative.

 

[coolbreeze]

...He has stated that he has many trees obstructing the LOS..he also stated that he cannot get DTV either....We installlers are not all lazy assed jerks.....

Yes, I did say there are trees in my yard, but I also said DTV has a strong, clean signal. I get 90-95% signal strength through the trees, whereas the Dish installer told me he couldn't get 1% anywhere. This makes me wonder and want a second opinion...

I am not accusing any installer of being lazy...I know they need to make money, but I just want a second attempt and maybe a little more effort. If I can get at least some signal, I will cut the damn trees in my yard. That is how much I want Dish HD.

I have started a thread w/photos on my installation scenario:

Here

 

[HCI]

Based on what I see there is no hope for 129. Sorry