DISH -VS- VOOM - A Settlement has been reached!

[jacmyoung]

Perhaps as low as 800-900M, but here is what I posted in the AMC thread, "The guy who write that article is pulling figures out of him bum. Voom said they lost 500M due to Dish illegally terminating the agreement, plus interest, plus 13-years of profits (lost business opportunity) on the contract, etc. I would imaging 1B would be the starting point, but who knows."

Regardless, I hope both parties negotiate a settlement over the weekend.

So you think the analyst was full of crap? May I assume from now on you will no longer post all those endless quotes from the analysts?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

And that's fine with me. Just put the channels back on and pray our bill doesn't go up too much.

You won't see VOOM back on, and it wouldn't surprise me if we never saw WE TV and FUSE again. (IFC is a maybe)

 

[dangue]

Simple. You are of the opinion that Dish had the right to breach the contract. If Dish has done nothing wrong and has all the evidence needed to sway a jury to their side, they won't settle.

You realize that the same logic would mean that AMC would never settle either. In fact, it means that any two parties that go to court and believe they are in the right would never settle. And yet, settlements happen all the time. That's a likely indicator that the underlying logic is flawed.

 

[ScottChez]

HERE IS A NEW ONE . . . while we wait for the Jury to return Monday at 9:30am ET

Fact- Dish started a Pilot Test showing Horror shows on its own channel this month. Its on now.
What if that is more than just a Pilot Test? What if they are counting how many tune to it and for how long?

What if as part of the Deal Dish BUYS all of the VOOM Content and starts it own set of 5 unique channels?
Dish would have something that DirecTV and Cable does not have Example: Dish Monsters, Dish Kungfu Dish what ever people like most ect ect.

Dish would call it a big Win as they would get Channels to continue on the BlockBuster Movie channel we have more movies than DireCTV theme.
Voom/Cable Vision would call it a big win as they would get tons of money for it. Plus AMC would be back on making money from Dish.

Everyone would be happy.

Charlie has 4 Billion saved up. Maybe this was the plan all along, get all the VOOM content rights cheep and start his own Movie channel package, remove the middle man like they had with Voom. Sell the package for a few dollars or just make it free and put commercials on it. If sell it with an auto hopper commercial skip turn on feature for say $5 a month. Your choice free with commercials or no commercials for $5

What do you guys think? Would you sign up?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

What if as part of the Deal Dish BUYS all of the VOOM Content and starts it own set of 5 unique channels?
Dish would have something that DirecTV and Cable does not have Example: Dish Monsters, Dish Kungfu ect ect.

I don't think there is any more VOOM content. It is my understanding that most of the content VOOM had was leased to VOOM for a specific period. I am sure all those leases are now expired, as if they were not then I couldn't see a reason why some of those movies couldn't have been shown on a channel like AMC sometime over the past few years.

 

[jacmyoung]

HERE IS A NEW ONE . . . while we wait for the Jury to return Monday at 9:30am ET

Fact- Dish started a Pilot Test showing Horror shows on its own channel this month. Its on now.
What if that is more than just a Pilot Test?

What if as part of the Deal Dish BUYS all of the VOOM Content and starts it own set of 5 unique channels?
Dish would have something that DirecTV and Cable does not have Example: Dish Monsters, Dish Kungfu ect ect.

Dish would call it a big Win as they would get Channels to continue on the BlockBuster Movie channel we have more movies than DireCTV theme.
Voom/Cable Vision would call it a big win as they would get tons of money for it. Plus AMC would be back on making money from Dish.

Everyone would be happy.

Charlie has 4 Billion saved up. Maybe this was the plan all along, get all the VOOM content rights cheep and start his own Movie channel package, remove the middle man like that had with Voom. Sell it for say $5 a month.

What do you guys think? Would you sign up?

The problem is, as someone pointed out, VOOM no longer exists, and any rights to those content were likely expired. I don't think rights to the contents are transferable anyway.

 

[mike123abc]

If they settle, there will be a press release where they have glowing thoughts of the other one. AMC will applaud Dish for returning its invaluable programming to Dish subscribers and Dish will applaud AMC for being such a reasonable programming provider that they have enthusiastically agreed to a multiyear programming deal that will bring award winning programming to Dish. It will be as though they were best buddies and the trial was a figment of our imagination.

If they out and out pay AMC a cash settlement it will probably have to be reported. If they for example pay above market rates for AMC channels to hide the settlement, we will probably never know what they agreed to pay.

If there is a settlement where cash is paid, I suspect that it will be a token amount, but the programming fees will be high, and I would not be surprised that Dish has to put the AMC channels in AT120...

 

[The Fat Man]

You're mistaken and PTVC is correct. I'm the Official Voom Trial Reporter and that's how I see it...

Oh no he didn't! Jerry! Jerry!

So you think the analyst was full of crap? May I assume from now on you will no longer post all those endless quotes from the analysts?

Oh no he didn't too! Maury! Maury!

Dude, riffjim is the man at the scene. All I know is what he gives us.

 

[gpollock87]

HERE IS A NEW ONE . . . while we wait for the Jury to return Monday at 9:30am ET

Fact- Dish started a Pilot Test showing Horror shows on its own channel this month. Its on now.
What if that is more than just a Pilot Test? What if they are counting how many tune to it and for how long?

What if as part of the Deal Dish BUYS all of the VOOM Content and starts it own set of 5 unique channels?
Dish would have something that DirecTV and Cable does not have Example: Dish Monsters, Dish Kungfu Dish what ever people like most ect ect.

Dish would call it a big Win as they would get Channels to continue on the BlockBuster Movie channel we have more movies than DireCTV theme.
Voom/Cable Vision would call it a big win as they would get tons of money for it. Plus AMC would be back on making money from Dish.

Everyone would be happy.

Charlie has 4 Billion saved up. Maybe this was the plan all along, get all the VOOM content rights cheep and start his own Movie channel package, remove the middle man like they had with Voom. Sell the package for a few dollars or just make it free and put commercials on it. If sell it with an auto hopper commercial skip turn on feature for say $5 a month. Your choice free with commercials or no commercials for $5

What do you guys think? Would you sign up?

it could also tell dish how many of its subs would like FEARnet.

 

[PTVC]

Now I know why you had reached that conclusion, because you have no clue what I was talking about, and also no clue how a civil trial works most times.

I know enough about civil and criminal law to know you're no legal scholar.

BTW, another analyst reported an on-going settlement talk, and put the possible amount between $200M to $1B.

It will never be anything close to $200M.

Perhaps as low as 800-900M, but here is what I posted in the AMC thread, "The guy who write that article is pulling figures out of him bum. Voom said they lost 500M due to Dish illegally terminating the agreement, plus interest, plus 13-years of profits (lost business opportunity) on the contract, etc. I would imaging 1B would be the starting point, but who knows."

Its a $2.5B breach of contract suit. Settlement negotiations don't start off with Dish offering Voom $1. Your $800-900M is closer than jacmyoung's and his analysts $200M low ball prediction.

The final figures of the settlement, once reached (again, 95% chance, give or take, of happening on Monday), will be somewhere between $1.1M and $2.5B

Is that $1.1M or $1.1B? If the latter, than I'd say you are much closer.

You realize that the same logic would mean that AMC would never settle either. In fact, it means that any two parties that go to court and believe they are in the right would never settle. And yet, settlements happen all the time. That's a likely indicator that the underlying logic is flawed.

Taking the comment out of context doesn't make what I said wrong. jacmyoung is of the opinion that Dish had the right to breach the contract and has everything it needs to give Voom a courtroom smackdown. If that's the case, then why settle when Charlie can walk out of the courtroom with every dollar he walked into the courtroom with still in his change purse? Dish either believes all Voom has is a Bee Stinger, or it dosen't. Do settlements happen all the time? Historically. But lets not assume that its Voom initiating the negotiations.

 

[dangue]

Taking the comment out of context doesn't make what I said wrong. jacmyoung is of the opinion that Dish had the right to breach the contract and has everything it needs to give Voom a courtroom smackdown. If that's the case, then why settle when Charlie can walk out of the courtroom with every dollar he walked into the courtroom with still in his change purse? Dish either believes all Voom has is a Bee Stinger, or it dosen't. Do settlements happen all the time? Historically. But lets not assume that its Voom initiating the negotiations.

By the same token, if AMC thinks it has a slam dunk, why would they settle? What you're saying holds true for both parties. Who starts the negotiations is irrelevant. All that matters is what the two parties ultimately agree to.

I'm not trying to argue for either side of this regarding settlement. Just trying to make the point that a lot more is involved in settlements than just relative strength of one's case.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[jacmyoung]

I know enough about civil and criminal law to know you're no legal scholar.

Anyone who reads this thread knows I am not a legal scholar, the fact you think you need to know enough about the law to figure that out, just underscores how clueless you are

It will never be anything close to $200M.

Its a $2.5B breach of contract suit. Settlement negotiations don't start off with Dish offering Voom $1. Your $800-900M is closer than jacmyoung's and his analysts $200M low ball prediction.

I never quoted any analysts, unlike Mr4069, but since he missed this one, I thought to bring it up. It turned out he was not much a fan of analysts anymore.

BTW, $800-900M is really far from his previous $2.5B+ if you recall, certainly farther from $2.5B than $200M, which is again not my prediction, rather his analyst quoting a source. Now that he does not like it, he calls his analyst crap.

Is that $1.1M or $1.1B? If the latter, than I'd say you are much closer.

Taking the comment out of context doesn't make what I said wrong. jacmyoung is of the opinion that Dish had the right to breach the contract and has everything it needs to give Voom a courtroom smackdown. If that's the case, then why settle when Charlie can walk out of the courtroom with every dollar he walked into the courtroom with still in his change purse? Dish either believes all Voom has is a Bee Stinger, or it dosen't. Do settlements happen all the time? Historically. But lets not assume that its Voom initiating the negotiations.

Before you try to tell people what I said, make sure you understand what I said first, otherwise only speak for yourself, not others.

If we assume the analyst's source was good, we basically have Cablevision/AMC at $1B, Dish at $200M, and they need to meet somewhere in between. Therefore, for all that we know, Cablevision/AMC likely have been more willing to settle, consider that they asked for way more than that in court.

Of course the above are speculations, but they have some base to go by, even if the base is questionable, still is better than you having no base at all.

 

[riffjim4069]

But lets not assume that its Voom initiating the negotiations.

Voom is out for blood, and perhaps even a pound of flesh, and they could not have a retained a more talented nor aggressive trial attorney (Orin Snyder) in helping them succeed. Based on the past 4 1/2 years of evidence collected, coupled with the last 3-weeks of embarrassing (for Dish) courtroom blunders and negative press, I see Dish crawling up to Voom with their belly exposed and tail tucked between their legs. They are no position to request anything less than a fair settlement, if they're lucky. I don't see Voom taking anything less than what they feel Dish owes them for crapping in their bed and pissing in their Wheaties...and doesn't even include what they did by not renewing the AMC channels.

Seriously, does anybody honestly feel that Dish is in the drivers seat in these settlement discussions? Not a chance! Either Voom is offered and accepts a fair settlement offer or Charlie is taking the stand on Monday to explain contradictions between his sworn deposition and his infamous deleted/recovered emails (not to mention Annex A of the LLC Agreement and other documents). Charlie is smart guy, but Mr. Snyder will abuse him with his own words and with the truth...unless Charlie simply admits he was well-aware of the spend requirement included overhead and that Voom had spent more than 100M each year on the service. Either way, case over and the outcome is given to the jury. But not before Judge Lowe instructs the court that Dish deleted evidence, which they can conclude would have further supported Voom's case. And not before Mr. Snyder points out how they recovered just a couple of the damning emails that were deleted over a 6-12 month period.

Anyway, here is an artistic rendering of how I see this case, along with settlement discussions, progressing with Voom manning the gun and Dish running for cover: [video]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81642096/[/video]

 

[riffjim4069]

I did call the reporter's settlement range crap because it is crap. It's crap, crap, crap! 200M is a joke...he may as well have started with a $1. If he had started with 500M then I wouldn't have said diddly squat because 500M has pretty much been established as a minimum baseline for Voom's actual monetary losses, and everything else (loss of future business operations, etc.) is subjective and much more difficult to quantify and qualify. While I feel an award would be over 1B, it certainly won't be 3.5B or even 2.4B...nothing close to that pie-in-the-sky amount. While I feel that 800-900M is a low settlement, it's not totally out of the question...and if Voom is happy with it then who am I to question their decision.

Stop pulling a Dish...you know, making stuff up. I NEVER said Voom was going be awarded 2.5B+ - quite the opposite. Could a jury award them 2.5B? Sure, anything is possible. But I don't see it happening. And don't call me Mr4069. You can call me riffjim4069 or Official Voom Trial Reporter, a title given to me by Scott. Of course, out of 200,000+ members I feel compelled to ask that only you address me by my username or official title.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads...egins!?p=2972197&highlight=ecourt#post2972197

Thanks,
Official Voom Trial Reporter

I never quoted any analysts, unlike Mr4069, but since he missed this one, I thought to bring it up. It turned out he was not much a fan of analysts anymore.

BTW, $800-900M is really far from his previous $2.5B+ if you recall, certainly farther from $2.5B than $200M, which is again not my prediction, rather his analyst quoting a source. Now that he does not like it, he calls his analyst crap.

 

[mike123abc]

By the same token, if AMC thinks it has a slam dunk, why would they settle? What you're saying holds true for both parties. Who starts the negotiations is irrelevant. All that matters is what the two parties ultimately agree to.

Because money has a declining value. Essentially if they get X amount now it is probably worth more than Y amount later. AMC must realize from past Dish behavior that Dish will attempt to drag this out through endless appeals, and if the jury reward is too big, a substantial risk that the amount would be reduced on appeal. Not only that, but there is also risk that there could be a mistrial or the case could have to be retried. That combined with the lost revenue from Dish dropping AMC, revenue that cannot be recovered from this trial, could have AMC much more willing to negotiate cash now verses possible cash in the future. The courtroom is never safe or a slam dunk. They could get 5 billion or they could get a hung jury.

 

[jacmyoung]

...While I feel that 800-900M is a low settlement, it's not totally out of the question...and if Voom is happy with it then who am I to question their decision.

Judging by how confident you are of VOOM's case, and how much high regard you have for their lead attorney, I'd say if they take your minimum $800-900M, you have no choice but call the attorney crap crap

 

[GaryPen]

By the same token, if AMC thinks it has a slam dunk, why would they settle?

Because carriage is worth more in the long run than cash up front.

 

[dangue]

Because money has a declining value. Essentially if they get X amount now it is probably worth more than Y amount later. AMC must realize from past Dish behavior that Dish will attempt to drag this out through endless appeals, and if the jury reward is too big, a substantial risk that the amount would be reduced on appeal. Not only that, but there is also risk that there could be a mistrial or the case could have to be retried. That combined with the lost revenue from Dish dropping AMC, revenue that cannot be recovered from this trial, could have AMC much more willing to negotiate cash now verses possible cash in the future. The courtroom is never safe or a slam dunk. They could get 5 billion or they could get a hung jury.

And those are all reasons for Dish not to settle as well. Thank you for illustrating my point for me.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[Voyager6]

I am really enjoying all this talk about the size of the possible settlement and how bad Dish looks in this case. Why don't we wait and hear Dish's side of the story. Dish has not yet presented any of it's evidence at trial. Those old e-mails the Voom "discovered" may not be the only ones from the 2005 to 2007 contract negotiations period. Voom may have only released those favorable to it's position. They may have omitted e-mails detailing concerns about Voom actually investing in the programming. Why did Dish insist on the amendment about the spending requirement on "The Service"? There is much about the contract negotiations that we have not heard. Its time to hear "the rest of the story".

 

[Teehar]

I'm trying to not be judgmental but,just based on Voom's evidence it's going to take a bomb from Dish to change the outcome.Still I do want to hear their side of the story.