DISH we lost our OK CBS but give us the OTA programming guide info!!

[dare2be]

I don't think that's the case. Do they HOPE (emphasis, not yelling) most will blame the provider? Sure.

Proof is in the pudding here on this site. Most of the users on this site are more knowledgeable than the average user, but still complain about the provider and threaten to switch. Customers don't have much recourse, except to switch providers (which hurts the existing provider), or ask for credits (which again hurts the provider). The system is skewed in the content owners' favor.

 

[Hall]

Something tells me that when Dish raises their fees $5/month (for example), that covers the increase to their expense line AND something for their profit.

Everything Dish 'sells' is making them a profit. Anyone who believe differently is a fool or a shill. This applies to all providers, in fact, not just Dish.

Where Dish will definitely "lose" money is on a new customer setup, with the installation costs of the technician, fuel, supplies, and obviously the equipment. Hence, the two-year commitment from a customer. When you tie that in, Dish will come out ahead (again).

 

[MikeD-C05]

Everything Dish 'sells' is making them a profit. Anyone who believe differently is a fool or a shill. This applies to all providers, in fact, not just Dish.

Where Dish will definitely "lose" money is on a new customer setup, with the installation costs of the technician, fuel, supplies, and obviously the equipment. Hence, the two-year commitment from a customer. When you tie that in, Dish will come out ahead (again).

And don't forget the DISH FEES. They definitely are going to their bottom line and helping with the profits. The hopper/joey fees are a boom to DISH and the main reason why they are pushing older subs ,with new dvr price hikes, to go with the Hopper upgrades.

 

[Bruno]

Everything Dish 'sells' is making them a profit. Anyone who believe differently is a fool or a shill. This applies to all providers, in fact, not just Dish.

Where Dish will definitely "lose" money is on a new customer setup, with the installation costs of the technician, fuel, supplies, and obviously the equipment. Hence, the two-year commitment from a customer. When you tie that in, Dish will come out ahead (again).

WELL said. I do believe that the future of DBS is in trouble. Next thing we all (some of us) will be on, is internet providers and how much at what price we pay.

 

[dare2be]

And don't forget the DISH FEES. They definitely are going to their bottom line and helping with the profits.

Of course they are. Without the fees, Dish's 8% profit would instead be a loss, since fees are more than 10% of the package prices.

 

[Hall]

the DISH FEES

Fees are generally FREE money to the entity that collects them. It doesn't cost a business money when a customer pays (4) days late but they'll still collect a late fee. One could argue that something like a DVR fee is used to subsidize development of DVRs and/or their software, but that's debatable. Those development costs are a built-in part of Dish's business and should be covered by the monthly fees they charge. If that's the case, again, those DVR fees are FREE money.

 

[dare2be]

Fees are not free money. They are just another way to meet the bottom line. If you took away the fees, then the package prices would have to be higher to compensate. It's all about marketing. Keep the advertised package prices low, but make up for it in fees. Of course, prices are rising way too fast to be able to even make the package prices look low.

 

[Hall]

I said "generally" free. An example, not related to satellite TV, is let's say a "re-delivery fee" - a truck company shows up for a delivery but no one is there. They often charge a fee to make that 2nd delivery. Sending their truck out the first time for nothing truly did cost them money. Another, again from delivery or trucking, is a lift-gate fee. Some places charge $30 while other charge $95. Yes, there's wear and tear from using it but there's a $65 difference in wear and tear ? No way.

 

[dare2be]

Well, I'm talking specifically about pay TV, not other industries.

 

[sam_gordon]

Finally people are starting to realize how bad Griffin is. They throw the weather crawls up if there is dark cloud within 300 miles coming out of the Gulf or the Rockies and now for the past 8 months they have a stupid bong/chime that dings every 90 seconds when the crawl resets and starts over. They always want to the blame the FCC or NWS. Their comments now on this

KOTV - The News On 6 The tone is an FCC requirement to let our visually impaired viewers know there is a new alert they may need to be aware of. It comes from the National Weather Service and the tone is automated when the weather crawl is up.

It's amazing that the tone suddenly vanishes when their newscast starts or that the VITALLY LIFE AND DEATH weather graphics and tones completely disappear when they go to commercial. Guess life and death weather takes a break for 23 mins every hour and for 35mins during newscasts.

In KOTV's defense, the FCC DOES require local stations to have an audible tone on their main audio whenever they run "emergency information" (which weather crawls qualify as) in a visual form to notify the hearing impaired they can tune to a different audio service to hear the information. The FCC does NOT require the audible tone during local news casts, even if there is a weather crawl. In addition, if the crawl changes, there needs to be another audible tone. So, if you have 'crawl A' saying there's a Thunderstorm Warning for Counties X, Y, and Z, you have to have an audible tone when it first runs. Then if 'Crawl B' saying there's a Thunderstorm Watch for Counties M, N, and O, you need to have a tone when that first runs. If the two crawls alternate, you have to have a tone every time. Believe me, stations aren't doing the tones because they want to.

Here's some reading for you: http://www.wileyrein.com/newsroom-a...peech_Rule_Takes_Effect_November_30_2015.html

Most of the users on this site are more knowledgeable than the average user, but still complain about the provider and threaten to switch.

I agree with the first part of your statement, but I think there's only a slim minority on here that threaten to switch. Most on here know these are short term outages.

 

[Hall]

Yeap, I call it "huff and puff". Threaten and do are very different !

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Bruno]

Everything Dish 'sells' is making them a profit. Anyone who believe differently is a fool or a shill. This applies to all providers, in fact, not just Dish..

 

[osu1991]

In KOTV's defense, the FCC DOES require local stations to have an audible tone on their main audio whenever they run "emergency information" (which weather crawls qualify as) in a visual form to notify the hearing impaired they can tune to a different audio service to hear the information. The FCC does NOT require the audible tone during local news casts, even if there is a weather crawl. In addition, if the crawl changes, there needs to be another audible tone. So, if you have 'crawl A' saying there's a Thunderstorm Warning for Counties X, Y, and Z, you have to have an audible tone when it first runs. Then if 'Crawl B' saying there's a Thunderstorm Watch for Counties M, N, and O, you need to have a tone when that first runs. If the two crawls alternate, you have to have a tone every time. Believe me, stations aren't doing the tones because they want to.

Here's some reading for you: http://www.wileyrein.com/newsroom-a...peech_Rule_Takes_Effect_November_30_2015.html

I agree with the first part of your statement, but I think there's only a slim minority on here that threaten to switch. Most on here know these are short term outages.

Thanks. That's one I happen to know the requirement as I looked it up when this started and ktul was doing it one week. My friends at a couple stations say there is a difference of opinion in how and when this is applied.

There were not different crawls being run the few times I've had to watch. I was too annoyed to pay attention yesterday. Like I've said, I've stopped watching almost everything on kotv so I'm sure there have been times there were changes throughout the hour but this was constant every 90 seconds yesterday during the sports. I gave up before the NFL game and switched to my slingbox and the TiVo in our Las Vegas home to watch the game in peace.

Kotv appears to be the only one doing it this way. Ktul did it one week during May sweeps and season finales. The complaints were numerous and I haven't seen ktul do it that way anymore. I just watched a recordings from last night from on NBC kjrh and low and behold no tone when the crawls switched from ice storm warning to freezing rain advisory which both covered different areas.

Alerting the consumer and annoying the consumer are two different things and the people at Griffin don't seem to grasp that and sometimes I wonder about the FCC too.

 

[sam_gordon]

I just watched a recordings from last night from on NBC kjrh and low and behold no tone when the crawls switched from ice storm warning to freezing rain advisory which both covered different areas.

As I understand the rules (unless they've recently changed which I doubt), it sounds like KJRH isn't following them. While I agree that's better for the viewers, that could get them in trouble.

Alerting the consumer and annoying the consumer are two different things and the people at Griffin don't seem to grasp that and sometimes I wonder about the FCC too.

Agreed. But IMO Griffin doesn't have much of a say on whether to have the tones or not. It makes more sense to me to just require stations to provide a secondary audio source that would include crawl audio and publicize that. Someone who wants to hear the crawl information simply stays tuned to the secondary broadcast. Having them switch back and forth is ridiculous IMO, but that's what the FCC assumes would happen.

 

[comfortably_numb]

Channel owners have a nice racket going for them. When stations go dark, they know that most people will blame the provider. Then when a new agreement is reached for more money, they also know that the provider will then get blamed again for having to raise rates every year. Must be nice not to have to deal with market forces except to drive them.

I work in an office with a bunch of middle aged ladies. Currently KMBC is off the air on DirecTV (or at least it was recently) and all they talk about is how bad DTV is for doing that. I've enlightened them that it's probably (definitely) KMBC's fault and you'd think I was telling them I discovered fire.

It appears the Nets will milk this cash cow until DBS is dead.

 

[dare2be]

I work in an office with a bunch of middle aged ladies. Currently KMBC is off the air on DirecTV (or at least it was recently) and all they talk about is how bad DTV is for doing that. I've enlightened them that it's probably (definitely) KMBC's fault and you'd think I was telling them I discovered fire.

It appears the Nets will milk this cash cow until DBS is dead.

I've had the same exact experience with my parents and brother who both have DTV. "How could DTV take my stations off when New Years bowl games and NFL games are coming up?" I tried to educate them but they would have nothing of it.

People overwhelmingly blame the provider because that is who they are paying for service.

 

[comfortably_numb]

I've had the same exact experience with my parents and brother who both have DTV. "How could DTV take my stations off when New Years bowl games and NFL games are coming up?" I tried to educate them but they would have nothing of it.

People overwhelmingly blame the provider because that is who they are paying for service.

Yep. And if I were the Provider I'd be VERY concerned that people have that notion. Simply putting up a crawler or posting info on a website isn't enough. The average customer doesn't know or care who is right or who is wrong during a dispute- they just want their channel back. I support the break-out of the local channel fees from packages because it shows customers the actual cost of carrying the Nets. Just like the RSN fees. Then, if you don't want those channels, drop them. Let the Nets charge exhorbitant carriage fees and pass them along. Then maybe people will see what is really going on.

 

[JosephB]

Yep. And if I were the Provider I'd be VERY concerned that people have that notion. Simply putting up a crawler or posting info on a website isn't enough. The average customer doesn't know or care who is right or who is wrong during a dispute- they just want their channel back. I support the break-out of the local channel fees from packages because it shows customers the actual cost of carrying the Nets. Just like the RSN fees. Then, if you don't want those channels, drop them. Let the Nets charge exhorbitant carriage fees and pass them along. Then maybe people will see what is really going on.

Along with that change, the law needs to be updated so that providers can sell service without locals. I think satellite already can, but cable is legally (not contractually..there's an actual federal law) required to provide local channels with every level of service. Unfortunately most in Congress are in the pocket of the NAB, but a great consumer friendly change would be a law that a) MVPDs (meaning both cable and satellite) could offer packages without local channels b) banned contracts that require carriage in all levels of service (even if it's legal, Disney could for example require that locals are offered in every package in return for the right to carry ESPN) and c) required that either individual channels or at least categories of channels are broken out on bills so that people know what they're paying for.

 

[comfortably_numb]

Along with that change, the law needs to be updated so that providers can sell service without locals. I think satellite already can, but cable is legally (not contractually but an actual federal law) required to provide local channels with every level of service. Unfortunately most in Congress are in the pocket of the NAB, but a great consumer friendly change would be a law that a) MVPDs (meaning both cable and satellite) could offer packages without local channels b) banned contracts that require carriage in all levels of service (even if it's legal, Disney could for example require that locals are offered in every package in return for the right to carry ESPN) and c) required that either individual channels or at least categories of channels are broken out on bills so that people know what they're paying for.

Agreed. I think if people saw their cable bill and thought, "hey why am I paying $15 a month for local channels? I can set up an antenna for those and save money," then the Nets would lose money and prices would come back down

 

[dare2be]

How about a Flex-like pack where each conglomerate's channels are in its own pack, along with their relative cost. So, Viacom pack, Comcast/NBCU pack, Disney/ESPN pack, FOX pack, etc. Then we can really see who the bloodsuckers are. It would also open people's eyes on just how few companies control so many channels.