I ghuess I need to vote and comment since I have had a replacement. I saw now improvement in PQ, either HD or SD. I saw no difference in the Darn Picture bud in SD from S-video. I can not lock any station that I couldn't lock before. But a couple of stations that I sometimes had to stand on one leg while pressing the View button with my nose then hit info with ,,, Well they now lock almost immediately, almost all the time. The other stations do lock a bit faster. That is the only difference that I see.
Does swapping the 811 out make A difference?
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GaryPen said:
Nope - what I meant was the whole reason for the poll in the first place was that a bunch of people whined about their 811's, some swapped them, and some saw benefit - But the lions' share of people don't even qualify for this poll, as they haven't bothered swapping *yet*
hancox said:
And this was the purpose of the poll. To get a pulse and opinions of the people who have taking a leap and tried a swap. That is was I was surprised to find that most did not get a positive effect.
Thought it might give some idea if it is worth going through the hassle. For me, my 811 is working good but others are feeling pain. From the poll, It seems that there is a small chance of improvement and you might even feel you are worse off. My guess on the worse off votes might be a result of raised expectations on the replacement followed by disappointment of not improvement.
My 811 isn't even hooked up to the Dish right now. For the past week, I've needed both feeds for the new 721. I'll get around to running that 3rd line at some point. But, even then, the 811 is still gonna sit on the back burner, just used for special HD events and such.
It'll be nice if they ever get it working coreectly, so it doesn't take 5 minutes or more just to get it running when I use it.
It'll be nice if they ever get it working coreectly, so it doesn't take 5 minutes or more just to get it running when I use it.
I think that there needs to be a qualifier. Such as --'If you have exchanged your 811 since June 1st,2004 (natch) please take the following survey.'
My reasoning is as follows, I am on my second replacement. The first I received within two weeks of my first 811. It worked the exact same way as the first. I believe that after the second download is when most of the problems started cropping up.
As for my third 811, the first selection in your survey applies. Everything has been improved. OTA, Menu (without the tedious sat. finds and menu downloads) and the picture seems to have more definition in the dark areas.
Something else to report, I will occasionally disconnect my OTA antenna if there is going to be a thunderstorm in my area. I did that one day before work and when I came home I pressed an OTA digital channel and the channel came up with no strenth. I then pressed the menu and the usually stuff (sat. find and menu download) came up. I then realized that the antenna was not plugged in and so I did that and then pressed the menu and guess what? It worked like it is supposed to. Punched in an OTA digital channel that I knew was off the air and of course no strength but when I pressed the Menu the Menu came up with no problems. Seems the new 811's are handling the OTA signals differantly. That's my observation.
My reasoning is as follows, I am on my second replacement. The first I received within two weeks of my first 811. It worked the exact same way as the first. I believe that after the second download is when most of the problems started cropping up.
As for my third 811, the first selection in your survey applies. Everything has been improved. OTA, Menu (without the tedious sat. finds and menu downloads) and the picture seems to have more definition in the dark areas.
Something else to report, I will occasionally disconnect my OTA antenna if there is going to be a thunderstorm in my area. I did that one day before work and when I came home I pressed an OTA digital channel and the channel came up with no strenth. I then pressed the menu and the usually stuff (sat. find and menu download) came up. I then realized that the antenna was not plugged in and so I did that and then pressed the menu and guess what? It worked like it is supposed to. Punched in an OTA digital channel that I knew was off the air and of course no strength but when I pressed the Menu the Menu came up with no problems. Seems the new 811's are handling the OTA signals differantly. That's my observation.
Without an understanding as to what previous version of software and boot
strap one previously had with their old 811, and the versions of their replacement
811 boxes; it will be hard to determine whether replacements did in fact work.
“E” could as just sent you somebody’s else’s box without even checking it out,
just to appease everyone, and in fact sent you the same versions of software you
had previously.
It does seem that the upgrades to both software and boot strap versions might
be the ticket to resolving “some” of the 811’s issues.
My understanding is that folks who had the following changes noticed an
improvement:
Software Version: P267 LABD-N to P267 LADD-N.
Boot Strap Version: 1010 LABD to 1010 LADD
In addition, the new receiver had the DishPro logo on it, which might indicate
a hardware upgrade.
I think that the 811’s has both hardware and software problems. I might
be mistaken but I do not think that “E” would want to swap out everyone’s box
voluntarily.
Everyone would probably have to push the issue to have their 811s
replaced with the newer software and hardware updates 811s, before their warranty expires.
strap one previously had with their old 811, and the versions of their replacement
811 boxes; it will be hard to determine whether replacements did in fact work.
“E” could as just sent you somebody’s else’s box without even checking it out,
just to appease everyone, and in fact sent you the same versions of software you
had previously.
It does seem that the upgrades to both software and boot strap versions might
be the ticket to resolving “some” of the 811’s issues.
My understanding is that folks who had the following changes noticed an
improvement:
Software Version: P267 LABD-N to P267 LADD-N.
Boot Strap Version: 1010 LABD to 1010 LADD
In addition, the new receiver had the DishPro logo on it, which might indicate
a hardware upgrade.
I think that the 811’s has both hardware and software problems. I might
be mistaken but I do not think that “E” would want to swap out everyone’s box
voluntarily.
Everyone would probably have to push the issue to have their 811s
replaced with the newer software and hardware updates 811s, before their warranty expires.
I switched to using a 6000 (borrowed from a friend who recently got a 921) and the 811 is now a doorstop. If P268 doesn't fix the crushed blacks the 811 will be off to ebay or maybe Dish will do the honorable thing and make amends for selling a defective product. In the meantime, the 6000 is great! No more crushed blacks, and reliable digital OTA with the 8vsb module. No lock ups - ever. I am using a Barco Graphics 800 projector which is analog, so the lack of DVI on the 6000 is a don't care.
Dish did agree to swap out my 811, but I held back because I couldn't be sure to get the "new" 811 hardware revision, if it even exists. We need for Dish to acknowledge there is a hardware problem. I haven't got any farther with Dish than "the next software rev will fix everything". Not likely, and how long will the charade be perpetuated? Until just after the warranty expires? Overly cynical perhaps, but I judge by actions and not words. In the last 6 months, the problem has not been fixed. Maybe the next 6 months will be better, but I have no reason for optimism.
In the meantime, I am watching the 6000 and enjoying myself. My wife is happy, my kids are happy, and the 811 is but a bad memory.
Keith.
Dish did agree to swap out my 811, but I held back because I couldn't be sure to get the "new" 811 hardware revision, if it even exists. We need for Dish to acknowledge there is a hardware problem. I haven't got any farther with Dish than "the next software rev will fix everything". Not likely, and how long will the charade be perpetuated? Until just after the warranty expires? Overly cynical perhaps, but I judge by actions and not words. In the last 6 months, the problem has not been fixed. Maybe the next 6 months will be better, but I have no reason for optimism.
In the meantime, I am watching the 6000 and enjoying myself. My wife is happy, my kids are happy, and the 811 is but a bad memory.
Keith.
Bulldog said:
Good point Bulldog. This would definitely make the poll more percise and give a lot more info. As for the two verison, I doubt the the boot strap version would have anything to do with the problems we are seeing. From my experience it does not come into play on a running box. I am rather confused by the two LABD-N/LABD after the version numbers. One if this indicates some common code used between the bootstrap and actually receiver application code.
The DishLogo point I believe is a red harring. My guess is that there was some new art work added. Does not mean anything inside the box has changed. Maybe it has, but new art work does not point to a hardware change from my experience.
Well I wonder how many people that participated in the poll saw an improvement with a LABD to LADD and how many did not. Wonder if a lot of people noted this change. I will have to check my box since I don't have a clue if it is a LABD or LADD. At one time, people thought this was the magic bullet, but from what i read later on that people got a LABD to LADD swap and did not see any improvement.
At this point, I don't think the magic bullet is known. Looks like the poll is at 50/50 right know. As for it being both hardward and software that is possible. At this point in the game I am not sure.....
I just got off the phone with Dish; a replacement for the 811 that's been sitting in my closet for the last 6 months awaiting a dark video fix is on its way.
The new unit will arrive on Thursday; I'll post my impressions (and unit info) here when it arrives.
Thanks for starting the poll, WeeJavaDude -- it's good to know there's a *chance* the swap could help.
The new unit will arrive on Thursday; I'll post my impressions (and unit info) here when it arrives.
Thanks for starting the poll, WeeJavaDude -- it's good to know there's a *chance* the swap could help.
WeeJavaDude said:
I agree WeeJavaDude that at this point in the game we are not sure.
I think that "E" has the answers and would not come clean with us.
As you know the clock is ticking on our warranties. I got my in December
and I am hoping that if it does require a hardware update, that it gets done
before my machine turns into a real lemon.
One individual characterizes some as "whiners" but this isn't the case. Whiners we are not. What we are are extremely dissatisfied 811 owners with real and serious hardware/software problems. I HAVE swapped and the hardware is still flawed. I have contacted Dish but have not heard back from the "ceo" regarding the matter. I like Dishnetwork a bunch but don't need to be saddled with equipment that doesn't work that I payed good money for that I can't even return. It's outrageous. This forum is to present information and learn from each other. Let's try and get what we payed for, equipment billed to produce stunning HD that unfortunately for many produces only questional images that fall into a black abyss.
Respectfully,
Spankle
Respectfully,
Spankle
Spankle said:
Now there you go, whining again
Some folks just don't get it. The 811 that I have is horrible, and apparently I am in good company. Dish know it is horrible, but claim there is a magic bullet software fix coming. Maybe I am overly skeptical, but after 7 months of waiting for the crushed black software fix (P264, P265, P266, P267), it is reasonable to assume it isn't going to happen in P268. No matter what, the whole escapade has left a bad taste.
If I can find the time, I will get out my still camera and take some screen shots of my 811 images next to the same from a 6000.
Keith.
keith said:Now there you go, whining again
Some folks just don't get it. The 811 that I have is horrible, and apparently I am in good company. Dish know it is horrible, but claim there is a magic bullet software fix coming. Maybe I am overly skeptical, but after 7 months of waiting for the crushed black software fix (P264, P265, P266, P267), it is reasonable to assume it isn't going to happen in P268. No matter what, the whole escapade has left a bad taste.
If I can find the time, I will get out my still camera and take some screen shots of my 811 images next to the same from a 6000.
Keith.
I don't think it is that some people don't get it. I believe that what you are seeing is your experience and you are being honest and upfront about it. On the other hand the people describing positive 811 experiences are also being upfront and honest about theirs. Just two camps with different experiences. I for one am very interested in what other people are running into and how their configurations are doing. I don't think it is a fact that people don't get it.. it is just that they have different experiences and they offer them up.. But that is my opinion.
Everyone one on here has different configurations, different expectations, and different use cases. Under your conditions and configuration and environment you are having bad experience. Under mine, I am not. It is as simple as that.
Your suggestion on the digital pics would be a very interesting data point.. In the past however, I found digital pictures not showing the problem that the person sees with their eyes. If it does show what you see, great!! I would love to see them. I would suggest using the same inputs if possible so you keep it as close to Apples/Apples as possible.
WeeJavaDude said:
What disturbs me is that I believe there are hardware differences between older and newer 811's, but Dish are still sticking to the "next software rev will fix it" defense. It's great that there are happy 811 users, and I am happy now using a borrowed 6000.
WeeJavaDude said:
I did try once already and was disappointed in the results. The digital camera was set manually (exposure and aperture and all parameters) but what appear as large differences to my eyes were barely discernable in the camera images. Perhaps a digital camera doesn't have enough contrast range.
Keith.
I think there are people that are just not as critical in regard to picture quality. They just don't see any issues, or do but don't care.
And, there are people that don't care about bugs, glitches, or having to jump through hoops to get something to work, as long as they perceive it as "cutting edge". Or, they just enjoy the technical nitty gritty of things.
There are also people that have an emotional attachment or loyalty to Dish, and that clouds their judgment or at least makes them more tolerant. (I never understood that one.)
Of course, there are probably nitpickers as well, who are unhappy with anything. But, it seems the majority of those voicing concerns with the 811 (or 921, 522, DP, Dish CSR's, Over-compression, etc) are happy with other Dish receivers, or were happy with Dish in general at some point. So, they don't generally appear to be nitpickers, grumblers, whiners, or generally unhappy people. They are just voicing valid complaints about a faulty product release, which seems to be business as usual for Dish equipment rollouts, nowadays.
And, there are people that don't care about bugs, glitches, or having to jump through hoops to get something to work, as long as they perceive it as "cutting edge". Or, they just enjoy the technical nitty gritty of things.
There are also people that have an emotional attachment or loyalty to Dish, and that clouds their judgment or at least makes them more tolerant. (I never understood that one.)
Of course, there are probably nitpickers as well, who are unhappy with anything. But, it seems the majority of those voicing concerns with the 811 (or 921, 522, DP, Dish CSR's, Over-compression, etc) are happy with other Dish receivers, or were happy with Dish in general at some point. So, they don't generally appear to be nitpickers, grumblers, whiners, or generally unhappy people. They are just voicing valid complaints about a faulty product release, which seems to be business as usual for Dish equipment rollouts, nowadays.
I fully understand your point and I have been there before on a few consumer products (Non Dish releated). As for their being hardware differences between the old an new 811s? I am not sure if this is the case, I have not seen any evidence other than the fact that a box swap sometimes helps. This might be caused by an inline hardware change, but also could be caused by chip variations, quality variations, and a number of other things. For the people that are having PQ issues, I hope that they do fix it. If it is hardware or software, hopefully dish get their hands around the issue and fix it. The 811 is a nice piece of hardward and hopefully they will iron these issue out before Warrenties become an issue.keith said:
I have also been on the other side of the coin where it is a known hardware issue and no matter what software fixes are put in place we could not get what I considered an acceptable fix. This then becomes a businees issue and not a technical one.
I hope this is not the case, because those type of problems are very costly in
terms of company costs and results in a company not doing the right thing.
keith said:
Yeap.. Does not suprise me. Cameras just don't capture what the eye sees.
WeeJavaDude said:
If my 811 had the image quality of my 6000, I would be using it. I also tried a 301 box, and that had "normal" blacks too.
If the 811 worked for me, it would indeed be a terrific box and at a bargain price. My disappointment in the 811 had me thinking of ditching Dish and looking at DirectTV or cable. The 6000 will tide me over until this situation is resolved, or not, with P268. My gut and past history tells me that it won't be. I will be sticking with Dish and continuing to fight Dish to fix my 811.
Keith.
As has been stated, people have legitimate gripes with their 811. I too, would complain if mine didnt' work as it should, but personally, I have had no problems with my 811 which I have had since March. I don't have to reboot, the PK is great on HD and extremely good on SD. My locals one Dish are much better than they were on Cox Cable.
I don't have the OTA issues as I can't get them being too far from the tower; That is why I have the locals on Dish.
I am very particular so I am not one of those that have extreme loyalty, as I have had both Direct TV and now have had Dish for about 5 years.
So, I guess I am one of the lucky ones in that I have had basically no issues with mine and am happy that I have been so lucky.
I hope 268 solves all of the issues that others are having and that they will then be as happy with the 811 as I.
Marlin
I don't have the OTA issues as I can't get them being too far from the tower; That is why I have the locals on Dish.
I am very particular so I am not one of those that have extreme loyalty, as I have had both Direct TV and now have had Dish for about 5 years.
So, I guess I am one of the lucky ones in that I have had basically no issues with mine and am happy that I have been so lucky.
I hope 268 solves all of the issues that others are having and that they will then be as happy with the 811 as I.
Marlin
