Don't Say Goodbye To HD DVD, Yet

vurbano

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Apr 1, 2004
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Don't Say Goodbye To HD DVD, Yet | Tom's Hardware

CES was unkind to HD DVD this year, but don't underestimate the power of the fledgling format. A couple days before the beginning of this month's Consumer Electronics Show, Warner Home Video announced it decided to support Blu-ray exclusively and end its relationship with HD DVD. This gave a tremendous push to Blu-ray's existing lead and dominance with studio support.

"This was a big win for Sony and Blu-ray will certainly increase its share of the market," says Gloria Barczak, an electronics branding expert and marketing professor at Northeastern University.

However, don't forget that the format war is still in its infancy. Neither HD format is even two years old yet. Standard DVD sales still dwarf both high-def format sales combined. There is plenty of time before one of these formats will become the standard.

Also, keep in mind that more than 90% of all Blu-ray hardware sales come in the form of the Playstation 3. A video game console is a solid platform on which to launch a new format medium, but it's hardly enough to sustain the medium for years to come.

We're not exactly looking at new turf here. Sony has doled out countless formats, all of which were technologically superior and impressive on a specification sheet. However, the company has had a pathetic success rate with these formats. I'm talking about Betamax, which was actually better than VHS; the Digital Audio Tape and Minidisc were both the first to explore the field of recordable digital audio but both failed, and Sony's Hi8 video camcorder tape format also sunk.

And of course, looking at the Playstation 3 factor is a must when we are talking about Blu-ray. While it seems good to have such huge support from a device, it seems very difficult to swallow the idea that a game console can determine the result of an entire format war.

The Playstation 2 was considered one of the big pushes for DVD players, but today I'm sure very few people use their PS2 as their main DVD player.

HD DVD has many things going for it. The players are less bulky and less expensive. It is also not as costly for studios to publish their films on HD DVD. Blu-ray is the much more expensive format. Also, HD DVD has always run circles around Blu-ray with regard to bonus material. Over a dozen HD DVD titles now have special material that can be accessed directly through the player's Ethernet connection and downloaded to its internal hard drive.

There are far more Blu-ray titles without HD-exclusive features than is the case for HD DVD. The technology often is considered to be superior and cheaper on the HD DVD side, but Blu-ray just happens to have the PS3 factor. In my opinion, that is really the only thing it has on its side right now, and if that fizzles, we're looking at a completely new ball game.

"Certainly, having one format ends confusion for the consumer but they will still be unwilling to buy if they don't see value in what they're buying," said Barczak.

Think about it. The technology world is filled with powerful comeback stories. Look at Nintendo and its unabashed success with the Wii. Just a few years ago some critics were counting Nintendo out of the console race for good. Or look at Apple, the whole Intel/AMD scenario or HP in the PC arena.

Sure, HD DVD has a long way to go to re-establish itself, but the opportunity is still out there. Looking back at history, movie studios have jumped ship from formats, fads have died off with the snap of a finger, and there's always the chance for a unpredictable surprise that changes the game entirely. It's all happened before, and the fact that this format war is so highly publicized just makes every shift so crucial. It'll be at least another year before we know for sure who has the permanent upper hand.

The battle is still too close to call at this time. My advice: If you aren't part of the early-adopter crowd and you don't want to run the risk of investing into a failing format, remain patient. One year ago, this battle looked completely different and we would be surprised if the HD DVD camp would give up that easily.
 
Keep on fighting the good fight, vurbano. I'm sure your efforts will cause HD DVD to surge to 16% market share next week.
 
Rofl, I bet you would do the same thing if HD-DVD won the war..
 
No, kicking a dead horse, once that horse is buried, then hi-def can start moving main stream. I think the biggest thing holding back hi-def is the confusion of having two hi-def systems, and people not wanting to get burnt on a large investment. I also know people personally who are not buying standard def until this is sorted out because they want to buy the movie in hi-def. The longer this lingers on the more it will hurt everyone. And personally I don't buy that party line about how consumer friendly HD-DVD is and how warm and cuddly Toshiba is compared to the evil Sony, that is nothing but crap. If Toshiba was concerned about the consumer they would be selling a low cost Blu-Ray player and giving up on this war. You guys can pretend HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray all you want, the facts, the ones that are on this plane of existence prove red wrong. Dont count the playstaion, see if anyone cares, playstaion owners are buying discs, Red supporters may not choose to accept it, that is there choice. But you Red guys go ahead and slam Sony and the playstation. Go ahead, complain about all those obsolete Blu-Ray players consumers are getting screwed over on. No mater what Blu-Ray player you have you will still be able to watch the movie, and I bet that is what a majority of consumers want to do with movies, watch them! I feel bad for all you Red adapters who are gonna use all that impressive consumer friendly technology to upconvert standard def DVDs, oh I hope you guys get a lot of use out of all that internet connectivity.....

Ok I am done venting, and ranting, I don't mean to offend anyone, but the Red side seems to have no problem doing it to Smurfs.
 
Id like to say goodbye to these dumbass posts by Vurbano(the same ones he gets pissy about BTW).

Sure, its not over due because the entire population has not been assimilated, regardless of the fact HDDVD has sh!tty studio support. :rolleyes:

But hey, the cheap player sure makes up for lack of HD content :rolleyes:

I cant wait for summer, by then BD will have all major studio support, maybe then people will raise the white flag.

Toms hardware? Come on man. I know HDDVD is screwed if thats the best you can do.
 
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WHat is hilarious is declaring victory with only 2% of the market up for grabs. :rolleyes:

100% of the HD disc market is up for grabs though, and BD seems to be taking it. Just because the HD market has not grown to the size of the DVD market does not mean that the winner cannot be established.
 
:haha

I like how all of the Blu-Ray articles are from Reuters, Wall Street Journal, CNET, etc. and the one pro-red article is from a site called Tom's Hardware :haha

That being said, the article does have a point. With a 85/15 advantage for blu-ray in software sales you can't say goodbye yet...not until it's 100/00...which shouldn't be too long...


...Tom's Hardware...:haha
 
Why do you people get so mad when an HD DVD Supporter/user brings up good and valid points of why HD DVD is still in the game? it's kind of pathetic and a big turnoff on your behalf. you guys have to get over it, the "war" is NOT over, whether you like it or not HD DVD is NOT dead. we are not going to give up until we have to, and there are many people out there who will always think HD DVD is the better choice, so you guys need to really grow up cause what you say and what you do isn't going to change that...
 
:haha

I like how all of the Blu-Ray articles are from Reuters, Wall Street Journal, CNET, etc. and the one pro-red article is from a site called Tom's Hardware :haha

That being said, the article does have a point. With a 85/15 advantage for blu-ray in software sales you can't say goodbye yet...not until it's 100/00...which shouldn't be too long...


...Tom's Hardware...:haha

you must live under a rock if you haven't heard of Tom's hardware.
 
Why do you people get so mad when an HD DVD Supporter/user brings up good and valid points of why HD DVD is still in the game? it's kind of pathetic and a big turnoff on your behalf. you guys have to get over it, the "war" is NOT over, whether you like it or not HD DVD is NOT dead. we are not going to give up until we have to, and there are many people out there who will always think HD DVD is the better choice, so you guys need to really grow up cause what you say and what you do isn't going to change that...

They'll grow up in do time. Remember they are the PS3 demographic.
 
Why do you people get so mad when an HD DVD Supporter/user brings up good and valid points of why HD DVD is still in the game? it's kind of pathetic and a big turnoff on your behalf. you guys have to get over it, the "war" is NOT over, whether you like it or not HD DVD is NOT dead. we are not going to give up until we have to, and there are many people out there who will always think HD DVD is the better choice, so you guys need to really grow up cause what you say and what you do isn't going to change that...

You bring up a fair question LH4 so I'll stop laughing at the OP's post for minute and try to give you a fair answer.

For me, I'm not mad at any pro-red posts. Fed up or tired would be a better description in my case. Here is how I came to feel that way:

My first HDM player was an HD-DVD player. I enjoyed the player and my HD-DVD's for quite a while. At the time I got the HD-DVD player most BD's looked like garbage while most HD-DVD's looked fantastic. Blu-Ray absolutely fell on their face out of the gate in this format war IMHO.

When BD transfers started to improve I purchased a PS3 in order to enjoy movies from all studios. As the format war dragged on the following things began to take shape.

1. Blu-Ray had more players on the market
2. Blu-Ray outsold HD-DVD software for more than 52 straight weeks
3. Nearly every title released on both formats sold more on Blu-Ray

It was at this point that I realized that Blu-Ray was going to win the format war. I have nothing against Toshiba, Microsoft or any other HD-DVD supporting company and I have nothing to gain by promoting any pro-Blu company. But the writing was on the wall IMHO.

As I followed the various forums and websites it was also at this point that HD-DVD fanboys started to become more and more irrational with their arguments. Software sales don't matter, attach rates matter...studio support doesn't matter, cheap hardware matters...it doesn't matter that the PS3 has sold millions of units, no one watches BD's on the PS3. It was arguments like these that were pathetic and a big turnoff.

I think HD-DVD fanboy arguments, "jumped the shark" when they started claiming that the reason HD-DVD software sales had not increased was because all of the HD-DVD hardware sold was sitting under the christmas tree.

So why do I become so amused when I read posts like the OP's in this thread? Because of the absurdity of it. Whether you consider the format war over of not depends on your definition of over. Right now we are in the fourth quarter and Blu-Ray is ahead 85-15 so for all intents and purposes yes, it's over.


"I've often seen these people, these squares at the table, short stack and long odds against them. All their outs gone. One last card in the deck that can help them. I used to wonder how they could let themselves get into such bad shape, and how the hell they thought they could turn it around."
 
You bring up a fair question LH4 so I'll stop laughing at the OP's post for minute and try to give you a fair answer.

For me, I'm not mad at any pro-red posts. Fed up or tired would be a better description in my case. Here is how I came to feel that way:

My first HDM player was an HD-DVD player. I enjoyed the player and my HD-DVD's for quite a while. At the time I got the HD-DVD player most BD's looked like garbage while most HD-DVD's looked fantastic. Blu-Ray absolutely fell on their face out of the gate in this format war IMHO.

When BD transfers started to improve I purchased a PS3 in order to enjoy movies from all studios. As the format war dragged on the following things began to take shape.

1. Blu-Ray had more players on the market
2. Blu-Ray outsold HD-DVD software for more than 52 straight weeks
3. Nearly every title released on both formats sold more on Blu-Ray

It was at this point that I realized that Blu-Ray was going to win the format war. I have nothing against Toshiba, Microsoft or any other HD-DVD supporting company and I have nothing to gain by promoting any pro-Blu company. But the writing was on the wall IMHO.

As I followed the various forums and websites it was also at this point that HD-DVD fanboys started to become more and more irrational with their arguments. Software sales don't matter, attach rates matter...studio support doesn't matter, cheap hardware matters...it doesn't matter that the PS3 has sold millions of units, no one watches BD's on the PS3. It was arguments like these that were pathetic and a big turnoff.

I think HD-DVD fanboy arguments, "jumped the shark" when they started claiming that the reason HD-DVD software sales had not increased was because all of the HD-DVD hardware sold was sitting under the christmas tree.

So why do I become so amused when I read posts like the OP's in this thread? Because of the absurdity of it. Whether you consider the format war over of not depends on your definition of over. Right now we are in the fourth quarter and Blu-Ray is ahead 85-15 so for all intents and purposes yes, it's over.


"I've often seen these people, these squares at the table, short stack and long odds against them. All their outs gone. One last card in the deck that can help them. I used to wonder how they could let themselves get into such bad shape, and how the hell they thought they could turn it around."

Fair enough. but it just pisses me off to see how rude and ignorant some people can get, obviously you know what you like, but you have tried both formats and chose the Blu-Ray. but then you get these fan boys who have never even tried the HD DVD Player and say it sucks and its not as good as Blu-Ray. i myself have a HD DVD Player, i have never used a Blu-Ray Player or do not intend on using one in the future unless HD does completely fail and die (which i still disagree with you on about it already being dead) AND Blu ray has an enormous amount of high-def movies that i really want to see... or of course i am given one as a gift or get one for free (even so i may even just exchange it to get a few HD DVD's). anyway even though i am a supporter of HD DVD i do not hate Blu Ray and im not gonna get immature about it and start saying that blu-ray sucks, HD DvD is better, all Blu Ray Owners are rich snobs (as some blu ray owners call HD DVD owners poor and that we cannot afford a blu ray player)... it is a little pathetic whatever way you look at it. of course, since i own an HD DVD player, i want them to win the format war and i don't expect any different from Blu ray owners wanting Blu Ray to win the format war, but come on leave the nasty comments behind...
 
Fair enough. but it just pisses me off to see how rude and ignorant some people can get, obviously you know what you like, but you have tried both formats and chose the Blu-Ray. but then you get these fan boys who have never even tried the HD DVD Player and say it sucks and its not as good as Blu-Ray. i myself have a HD DVD Player, i have never used a Blu-Ray Player or do not intend on using one in the future unless HD does completely fail and die (which i still disagree with you on about it already being dead) AND Blu ray has an enormous amount of high-def movies that i really want to see... or of course i am given one as a gift or get one for free (even so i may even just exchange it to get a few HD DVD's). anyway even though i am a supporter of HD DVD i do not hate Blu Ray and im not gonna get immature about it and start saying that blu-ray sucks, HD DvD is better, all Blu Ray Owners are rich snobs (as some blu ray owners call HD DVD owners poor and that we cannot afford a blu ray player)... it is a little pathetic whatever way you look at it. of course, since i own an HD DVD player, i want them to win the format war and i don't expect any different from Blu ray owners wanting Blu Ray to win the format war, but come on leave the nasty comments behind...

Guess you are just blind when you think the blu-ray people are rude and ignorant.

I don't see how HD-DVD can pull this out, S*** Michael Bay is pushing paramount to move to blu-ray because he wants T2 on BR!

Blu-ray owners are rich snobs? HD-DVD owners are poor snobs?
I've seen both sides, the point still hasn't changed. Those are stupid comments, and if you take personal offense to that, then I don't think you should be participating in the war-zone because you clearly can't handle it.

Now vurbano making this threads is just giving *false* hope to HD-DVD owners, he is just trying to make himself feel good, the poor guy is in denial state along him few more people.

Its not necessarely blu-ray guys making threads bashing HD-DVD, its more like HD-DVD guys making threads and inviting blu-ray people to bash them. That is how I see it, and thats how its always been.

Now, moving on, vurbano how do you think paramount and universal are going to keep up with all the releases by blu-ray?
Look at the lineup, the blu-ray library keeps getting bigger and bigger by the days, and sales are going up fast.
 
Why do you people get so mad when an HD DVD Supporter/user brings up good and valid points of why HD DVD is still in the game? it's kind of pathetic and a big turnoff on your behalf. you guys have to get over it, the "war" is NOT over, whether you like it or not HD DVD is NOT dead. we are not going to give up until we have to, and there are many people out there who will always think HD DVD is the better choice, so you guys need to really grow up cause what you say and what you do isn't going to change that...
because they are blue trolls
 
No, 100% of the market is up for grabs. This is about the next-gen format market.
Actually the entire DVD market is up for grabs if a format could lure them. SO far its not working very well and if HDM doesnt make dramatic progress soon another format may move in. There is too much of the market out there to be had to call the game yet. But beware, say goodbye to advanced audio and pristine video when or if it does explode. The masses will not care about it and our interests will no longer take precedence. Just look at the crap the masses accept as "HD" from TV providers.
 
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HD DVD #1 and #2 selling DVD players at Amazon

Even Sony knows Blu-Ray isn't ready for prime time

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