DVR 921 and JVC DH30000U (1 Viewer)

dkjos

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Oct 30, 2003
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It's been reported that the DVR 921s firewire ports won't be functional initially, but may be by Q1 of 2004. For someone wanting the ability to record HD to the DH30000, is this a reason to wait on a 921 purchase, or, will this likely be a simple software upgrade?
There are also reports that E* will be offering about 10 new HD channels soon. Does this mean that there may be 6 or 7 new ones in addition to the Discovery, ESPN, HDNet, and HDMV that just came on line? If so, what might they be?
 

Scott Greczkowski

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Welcome dkjos

The firewire updates will be made via a software download. :)

Yes I hear a few more new HD Channels will be coming soon to the new 105 satellite, you will need a SuperDISH to view them.
 

xgrep

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Oct 8, 2003
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Scott Greczkowski said:
The firewire updates will be made via a software download. :)
You know, Scott, I respect your confidence, and I certainly am grateful for you sharing info from your contacts. And if I had to bet, I'd probably say you're right. But I think you'd have to agree that it's possible that this feature could be postponed indefinitely. It would not be the first time that E* had led consumers to make decisions on information that later turned out to be substantially incorrect (or at the very least incomplete).

Before I plunk down $1200 for a 921 and SuperDish, I'm going to wait to see if this famous firewire feature actually shows up. I will not buy a box (certainly not at that price) that doesn't allow me to archive what's on the disk. I would not do so if the box had a reputation for being absolutely solid, and I don't think anything more needs to be said on that.

Does anyone actually know the facts on why the firewire won't be supported right away? I have a very strong feeling that it's not simply a case of the SW not being ready. I would expect the MPAA to have had a hand in delaying it until its content protection satisfied its needs. It could even be the case that they have not yet given their approval.

x
 

wcswett

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Oct 9, 2003
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xgrep said:
Before I plunk down $1200 for a 921 and SuperDish, I'm going to wait to see if this famous firewire feature actually shows up. I will not buy a box (certainly not at that price) that doesn't allow me to archive what's on the disk.

I, for one, will gladly pay $1000 just to time-shift HD, especially since DISH just gave me a $300 SD DVR. I also plan to take advantage of the free Superdish and, I hope, free switches so I can still get my locals off 61.5.

xgrep said:
Does anyone actually know the facts on why the firewire won't be supported right away? I have a very strong feeling that it's not simply a case of the SW not being ready. I would expect the MPAA to have had a hand in delaying it until its content protection satisfied its needs. It could even be the case that they have not yet given their approval.

I don't think the MPAA has anything to do with it since the copy once/copy never protocols should be supported by the box, if the flags are ever activated. It's my understanding that the linkup with the 30000 doesn't work reliably yet and they won't activate it until it works right every time. If it was the MPAA, I have little doubt they would say so. What the content providers are controlling is whether or not you can hook up a computer by firewire (the answer is "no"). This last was discussed at the last technical chat.

--- WCS
 

dkjos

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Oct 30, 2003
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Is the quality of what's recorded HD on the 921 likely to be identical to that of the original feed? I've found that for SD broadcasts, the video recorded to the JVC DH30000U experiences some quality loss.
 

xgrep

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Oct 8, 2003
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wcswett said:
What the content providers are controlling is whether or not you can hook up a computer by firewire (the answer is "no").
Is preventing a computer connection even possible? I don't know the technical details of the protection on firewire (HDCP? or is that for DVI?), but given that it's relatively easy to program the firewire interface on a computer, I can already imagine hackers spoofing a JVC deck. The industry's track record in this area (security by obscurity) is not stellar, and unless they're using 128-bit encryption, I wonder how they plan to make this secure?

x
 

wcswett

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Oct 9, 2003
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xgrep said:
Is preventing a computer connection even possible? I don't know the technical details of the protection on firewire (HDCP? or is that for DVI?), but given that it's relatively easy to program the firewire interface on a computer, I can already imagine hackers spoofing a JVC deck. The industry's track record in this area (security by obscurity) is not stellar, and unless they're using 128-bit encryption, I wonder how they plan to make this secure?

If you can make the 921 think that your computer is one of the "select" devices DISH will authorize, then you can achieve a link via firewire. Whether that data is useable is a separate question I can't begin to answer. I don't know why I would want to move HD recordings to my computer except to archive them, and tape or HDDVD would seem to be cheaper and easier.

--- WCS
 

Scott Greczkowski

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[quote="xgrepYou know, Scott, I respect your confidence, and I certainly am grateful for you sharing info from your contacts. And if I had to bet, I'd probably say you're right. But I think you'd have to agree that it's possible that this feature could be postponed indefinitely. It would not be the first time that E* had led consumers to make decisions on information that later turned out to be substantially incorrect (or at the very least incomplete).[/quote]

The simple reason from what I understand is I guess they are waiting for someone (FCC, Congress...) to vote on the Copy Protection scheme. Once that is set then I would not expect it to be long before the feature is available.

JVC is working hard with Dish on this and I believe this is what they are waiting for. :)
 

xgrep

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Oct 8, 2003
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wcswett said:
I don't know why I would want to move HD recordings to my computer except to archive them, and tape or HDDVD would seem to be cheaper and easier.
Archiving is exactly my interest, and HD-DVD (e.g., Blu-Ray) would be my preference over tape. Tape is simply not a reliable archival medium in a consumer environment. In order to get it onto an HD-DVD, it's almost indispensable to go through a hard drive somewhere. Of course if you could go directly from the 921 via firewire to an HD-DVD burner staying in MPEG-2 all the way (i.e., no analog, no re-encoding), I would be completely happy with that solution. Being able to edit and author would be better, but is not essential.

x
 

dkjos

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Oct 30, 2003
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Why do you suppose there are two firewire ports on the 921? Is it to accomodate a display that requires firewire input as well as a recording device like the JVC HD recorder?
 

wcswett

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Oct 9, 2003
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xgrep said:
Archiving is exactly my interest, and HD-DVD (e.g., Blu-Ray) would be my preference over tape. Tape is simply not a reliable archival medium in a consumer environment.

I agree with you completely.

xgrep said:
In order to get it onto an HD-DVD, it's almost indispensable to go through a hard drive somewhere. Of course if you could go directly from the 921 via firewire to an HD-DVD burner staying in MPEG-2 all the way (i.e., no analog, no re-encoding), I would be completely happy with that solution. Being able to edit and author would be better, but is not essential.

I currently use a Panasonic DVD burner that has a hard disk built in. I record to the hard disk, edit out the commercials, then burn to DVD. I am assuming the same arrangement will be available when HD-DVD comes out, eliminating the need to go through a computer.

--- WCS
 

wcswett

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Oct 9, 2003
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Scott Greczkowski said:
The simple reason from what I understand is I guess they are waiting for someone (FCC, Congress...) to vote on the Copy Protection scheme. Once that is set then I would not expect it to be long before the feature is available. JVC is working hard with Dish on this and I believe this is what they are waiting for. :)

Scott, I thought the JVC already had HDCP, which it uses with commercial tapes released for it. It was reported on another forum that the problem with the 30000 was control issues between the 921 and the VCR, not encryption. The encryption is already in the machine.

--- WCS
 

wcswett

SatelliteGuys Family
Oct 9, 2003
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dkjos said:
Why do you suppose there are two firewire ports on the 921? Is it to accomodate a display that requires firewire input as well as a recording device like the JVC HD recorder?

The DISH tech team has stated a couple of times that they don't intend to support displays via firewire on the 921, just via the analog and DVI ports. I would expect them to enable one firewire for a VCR/DVD-R machine and the other for additional hard drives, but they haven't said anything beyond supporting JVC HDVCR's. There's supposed to be another receiver that will have firewire video out, but that's being worked between DISH and Mitsubishi.

--- WCS
 

xgrep

SatelliteGuys Family
Oct 8, 2003
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wcswett said:
I currently use a Panasonic DVD burner that has a hard disk built in. I record to the hard disk, edit out the commercials, then burn to DVD. I am assuming the same arrangement will be available when HD-DVD comes out, eliminating the need to go through a computer.
Yes, this would be ideal. I do expect it will be available. In fact, I haven't looked at the specs on Sony's just-about-available Blu-Ray DVD recorded, but it might just do this already. I don't recall what it has for inputs, though.

x
 

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