Ebay

[TheKrell]

What is the matter with you jokers? Theft of services is theft of services. And with the DMCA (which I abhor) it's also illegal to break the encryption for the purpose of stealing services. People have even been prosecuted for putting up links to software that can break the encryption.

As for these old receivers and smart cards, some are easier to hack than others. So, if you happen to be selling the easier-to-hack version, hackers will pay you more. Simple as that. This puts us in an ethical dilemma. Do we go for the bucks, even though we know darn well what the purpose of the buyer will be? Or do we sell our old receivers with just the R00 and S00 numbers and hope for the best?

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

What is the matter with you jokers? Theft of services is theft of services. And with the DMCA (which I abhor) it's also illegal to break the encryption for the purpose of stealing services. People have even been prosecuted for putting up links to software that can break the encryption.

As for these old receivers and smart cards, some are easier to hack than others. So, if you happen to be selling the easier-to-hack version, hackers will pay you more. Simple as that. This puts us in an ethical dilemma. Do we go for the bucks, even though we know darn well what the purpose of the buyer will be? Or do we sell our old receivers with just the R00 and S00 numbers and hope for the best?

So you happen to own a muscle car that has a big engine. And you want to sell it. A guy calls to ask you if it has a 454 under the hood. Under your logic you shouldn't tell him because he might break the speed limit if he buys the car? After all, that is the only reason he wants to know what kind of engine it has!!

 

[Mr Tony]

boy shows how ignorant some of you are and how some of you love to grasp at straws. (I guess all that time in the pit makes someone do things like that)

A normal subscriber to Dish doesn't give a rats patoot about that info. They want the R & S #'s to verify with Dish that the equipment doesn't have some absorbent amount of a past due balance on the receiver so they can activate it if there is no balance.

and since someone wants me to "enlighten" him with my response, I will

You mind enlightening us on how the buyer can steal using that info?

By asking those other numbers, they are CLEARLY wanting to know information that they can use to see how "easy" it is to steal Dish programming. That's the only reason they want to know. Kinda like when Dish switched from the blue card to the yellow card, that was the two main questions.
Is it a yellow card and what the Rom was.

 

[Mr Tony]

What is the matter with you jokers? Theft of services is theft of services. And with the DMCA (which I abhor) it's also illegal to break the encryption for the purpose of stealing services. People have even been prosecuted for putting up links to software that can break the encryption.

:up:up

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

Damn Ice, you are starting to sound like those guys at dbstalk scolding people about violating the Dish Terms of Service Agreement for wanting to "Move" so they can get locals in HD or so they can bring their receiver up to their camp house for the weekend!!

The OP is not selling a gun that has the serial number scratched off!

 

[vegassatellite]

What are they stealing? Remember there is a federal law that says we are allowed to receive any signal that is produced and distributed in the US and its protectorates. The only thing that supposed pirates can be charged with is copyright infringement. Just because somebody says it’s stealing, doesn’t mean it actually is...

The "signal" in this case, is an encrypted one. It's not illegal to watch a scrambled feed. However, to modify that "scrambled" signal is illegal because now you are receiving a service that you have not paid for.

You guys can argue all you want, but sharing that information can make the OP complicit in the commission of a crime. If this was DirecTV we were talking about and the buyer was caught by them, DirecTV would most definitely be filing suit against the OP, suggesting that he was selling equipment intended for theft of service. I realize that is a stretch, but I'm sure it would be one that they would try. I doubt the OP would want to go through the trouble of defending themselves in a lawsuit. Remember, DirecTV was suing people who were selling card readers, etc. for lawful purposes such as employee access, etc. Now, we are talking about DISH, who seems to be less aggressive in the pursuit of thieves, but the possibility can't entirely be ruled out.

 

[Smith P.]

Oh man ! You sound like a guys from signal integrity department. Have comissions from them ?
Overstretching, way off.

If this was DirecTV we were talking about and the buyer was caught by them, DirecTV would most definitely be filing suit against the OP, suggesting that he was selling equipment intended for theft of service.

 

[vegassatellite]

Oh man ! You sound like a guys from signal integrity department. Have comissions from them ?
Overstretching, way off.

DirecTV has, in the past, filed suit against people who bought equipment with no intent to steal satellite whatsoever. So, historical data proves this to be no stretch. The question is, would the OP be in a position to defend himself in a lawsuit if DISH tried to allege he was complicit in theft of service?

Grow up, Psmith. From this and the AMC-14 thing, you sound like a child.

 

[Mr Tony]

Damn Ice, you are starting to sound like those guys at dbstalk scolding people about violating the Dish Terms of Service Agreement for wanting to "Move" so they can get locals in HD or so they can bring their receiver up to their camp house for the weekend!!

couple thoughts
-Don't ever say I am sounding like them vip molesters over there
-We're talking about 2 different things here. I have no issues with people "moving" (since you have a fondness of the other site, you'd see that I have argued that point with the vip receiver molester) and hell, I've "moved" numerous times. In the 7 years I had Dish, I don't think my address on file ever matched where I actually lived
I paid my bill each month as do most "movers"
Modifying the card to override the encryption is illegal and is stealing. You aren't paying Dish for anything

The OP is not selling a gun that has the serial number scratched off!

see my previous post about "grasping at straws"

 

[Mr Tony]

Grow up, Psmith. From this and the AMC-14 thing, you sound like a child.

+1
:up

 

[steve4810]

Grow up, Psmith. From this and the AMC-14 thing, you sound like a child.

+2
:up:up

 

[Smith P.]

DirecTV has, in the past, filed suit against people who bought equipment with no intent to steal satellite whatsoever. So, historical data proves this to be no stretch. The question is, would the OP be in a position to defend himself in a lawsuit if DISH tried to allege he was complicit in theft of service?

Grow up, Psmith. From this and the AMC-14 thing, you sound like a child.

Too late to follow this advise.

Let me go straight with you last argument - DTV filed that dockets by possible misusing devices, but you bring it here and try to stick to a wall for totally different matter - accuse ppl just for reading letter from screen and devices ! Grow up yourself.
If you don't want to see difference, then I would say you're on payroll from JJ or play same scare tactic as JJ.

(Don't bring that AMC-14 here - it's smell bad when you licking someone from rear.)

 

[vegassatellite]

Too late to follow this advise.

Let me go straight with you last argument - DTV filed that dockets by possible misusing devices, but you bring it here and try to stick to a wall for totally different matter - accuse ppl just for reading letter from screen and devices ! Grow up yourself.

Supplying information that can be used to commit a crime is something that DTV has gone after people for, plain and simple. Ignore it if you want, but historically the facts are there.

If you don't want to see difference, then I would say you're on payroll from JJ or play same scare tactic as JJ.

This is a pretty weak accusation. I don't even know who JJ is. This is the first I've heard of him or her. If you're talking about the DBSTalk forum, I'm not even a member there and the only posts I've seen from there are whatever turns up in a google search. From the sounds of things, I don't think I would even want to be a member there.

(Don't bring that AMC-14 here - it's smell bad when you licking someone from rear.)

In the matter of calling you childish, I rest my case on this last comment of yours. You got owned on the AMC-14 issue, and you're getting owned here. I also see that I'm not alone in my assessment of you.

 

[Claude Greiner]

You guys might beat me up on this issue, but if it takes the card and software revision to sell a receiver to make a decent profit then by all means give it out.

I hate to think of what people do with the stuff once they buy it, but if they don't buy it from you they will buy from someone else and pay top dollar.

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

couple thoughts
-Don't ever say I am sounding like them vip molesters over there
-We're talking about 2 different things here. I have no issues with people "moving" (since you have a fondness of the other site, you'd see that I have argued that point with the vip receiver molester) and hell, I've "moved" numerous times. In the 7 years I had Dish, I don't think my address on file ever matched where I actually lived
I paid my bill each month as do most "movers"
Modifying the card to override the encryption is illegal and is stealing. You aren't paying Dish for anything


see my previous post about "grasping at straws"

Damn, I struck a nerve there!!

I am very aware that modifying the card is illegal. But the OP is not doing that nor is he planning on doing it. He is selling a legal product in a legal way on a legal website. There is nothing wrong with answering a few questions from a buyer. If that maximizes his profit, so be it.

And I am not "grasping at straws". I have no need to. You seem to be the one grasping at straws.

 

[Claude Greiner]

What are they stealing? Remember there is a federal law that says we are allowed to receive any signal that is produced and distributed in the US and its protectorates. The only thing that supposed pirates can be charged with is copyright infringement. Just because somebody says it’s stealing, doesn’t mean it actually is...

I have heard that one a thousand times

 

[AllieVi]

So you happen to own a muscle car that has a big engine. And you want to sell it. A guy calls to ask you if it has a 454 under the hood. Under your logic you shouldn't tell him because he might break the speed limit if he buys the car? After all, that is the only reason he wants to know what kind of engine it has!!

Excellent analogy.

The seller has no responsibility to help the satellite company protect its revenue stream and shouldn’t be concerned about the company’s enforcement problems. If I had the device, I’d provide the information and sell to the highest bidder.

 

[Mr Tony]

And I am not "grasping at straws". I have no need to. You seem to be the one grasping at straws.

I'm not grasping at straws. I've said pretty much the same thing each time. You keep using these off the wall comparisons

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

I'm not grasping at straws. I've said pretty much the same thing each time. You keep using these off the wall comparisons

I am not using off the wall comparisons. I am using different analogies and hoping there is one you can actually comprehend. I am trying to show you the error of your ways grasshopper!

 

[pabeader]

Whos service is being stolen? I understand that if I put my garbage in my neighbors trash bin, he has less space for his garbage. That is what is meant by "theft of service" I am stealing his ability to use the service he has paid for. If I am very smart and figure out a way to view a scrambled up signal, any scrambled signal, including one scrambled by multi-path, whos trash bin would I be messing with?