ehd question

Yeah that is the same thing I get, it will show in the Daily Schedule that it is recording but doesn't show up any where.

Yes and changing channels does not bring up a "Stop Recording ?" dialog.

As has been said before, I could post the exact same screenshots on my 722k.

The only proof I would accept at this point would be a video of the person going through the steps and proving that it does indeed record to EHD.

I think that ZachS is right in his testing, and it's the exact same thing on my 722ks, but I don't believe that there is any such thing as a magical EHD that enables DVR functions on DISH Network receivers that any other standard USB 2.0 EHD could not.
 
Yes and changing channels does not bring up a "Stop Recording ?" dialog.

As has been said before, I could post the exact same screenshots on my 722k.

The only proof I would accept at this point would be a video of the person going through the steps and proving that it does indeed record to EHD.

I think that ZachS is right in his testing, and it's the exact same thing on my 722ks, but I don't believe that there is any such thing as a magical EHD that enables DVR functions on DISH Network receivers that any other standard USB 2.0 EHD could not.
I talked to an engineer yesterday. He said that the ERD timer is sent via coax cable and that a USB connected device would not work.
 
I talked to an engineer yesterday. He said that the ERD timer is sent via coax cable and that a USB connected device would not work.
Ah... There is no tuner on a Pocketdish: PocketDISH::AV700E Technical Specifications. There is definitely an IR blaster in case you are using the Pocketdish itself to capture and digitize video via A/V (RCA) cables.

The FAQ on the pocketdish website also shows a USB transfer that looks remarkably like the EHD transfer... Of course it hasn't been updated since the early days of the PocketDish; the FAQ still states that the USB transfer leaves a copy on the receiver. IIRC, a firmware update took away that copy and made it a transfer, no doubt to enforce the "single copy" rule of the DMCA. :(

Harley: What is the size of your EHD? Maybe it matches exactly the size of the internal disk on the PocketDish.
 
3HaloODST said:
Yes and changing channels does not bring up a "Stop Recording ?" dialog.

As has been said before, I could post the exact same screenshots on my 722k.

The only proof I would accept at this point would be a video of the person going through the steps and proving that it does indeed record to EHD.

I think that ZachS is right in his testing, and it's the exact same thing on my 722ks, but I don't believe that there is any such thing as a magical EHD that enables DVR functions on DISH Network receivers that any other standard USB 2.0 EHD could not.

I enabled ERD on my 722. Scheduled a recording it shows in schedule but nothing recorded at the time. Doesn't work for me...the help screen does say this function is for external recording not storage. The EHD is a storage device not a recording device at least that is the case with my 722

Ross

Sent from my DROIDX using SatelliteGuys
 
If anyone is still not convinced, let me know and I'll snap a picture of the timer screen and post it for you.

What it is going to take is a screen shot showing a recording in progress on the My Media page.
 
I'll see what I can do with another screenshot when I'm home later. The drives are Fantom G-Force 2TB eSATA/USB, which doesn't sound like something the Pocket Dish would have had.
 
I talked to an engineer yesterday. He said that the ERD timer is sent via coax cable and that a USB connected device would not work.

While you were at it, did you suggest that they enable recording to EHD? :D


EDIT: I know that Raymond "Stretch" Gonzales said he'd pass along the suggestion, maybe two suggestions might make a difference? :D
 
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While you were at it, did you suggest that they enable recording to EHD? :D


EDIT: I know that Raymond "Stretch" Gonzales said he'd pass along the suggestion, maybe two suggestions might make a difference? :D
Yeah I passed it on. I think its a great idea. I would love to be able to record stuff I want to keep straight to the EHD and stuff that I want to watch once and delete to the DVR.
 
The drives are Fantom G-Force 2TB eSATA/USB, which doesn't sound like something the Pocket Dish would have had.
Ha ha! Not by a long shot. The biggest PocketDish had an internal 40GB drive.

Yeah I passed it on. I think its a great idea. I would love to be able to record stuff I want to keep straight to the EHD and stuff that I want to watch once and delete to the DVR.
Thanks; that would be a great feature, although recording some stuff to the EHD and some stuff to the internal HDD is an extra complication over recording to one or the other. There is also the complication of skipping duplicate recordings. This doesn't happen (now) if your duplicate is on the EHD.
 
Thanks; that would be a great feature, although recording some stuff to the EHD and some stuff to the internal HDD is an extra complication over recording to one or the other. There is also the complication of skipping duplicate recordings. This doesn't happen (now) if your duplicate is on the EHD.
That is true I didn't think about that.
 
Maybe you can make a suggestion to the DISH engineers to enable that functionality ;) .

There would not be enough bandwidth in USB 2.0 to support the max possible recording and playback sessions supported by a dual receiver, which is why I believe that the DVR functionality was removed from the 222. Would be nice though even if it was limited say to one record and one playback concurrently.

As to the question of the 622 recording to EHD, is it possible, and I have no insight whatsoever that says it is or is not, that the DVR conversion feature that can be sent to the 211 could some how have been sent to his 622s? I would think that this would not be possible as I would assume that a feature not intended for a particular class of receiver could not be applied to one of a different class, but who knows. I know I don't.
 
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There would not be enough bandwidth in USB 2.0 to support the max possible recording and playback sessions supported by a dual receiver, which is why I believe that the DVR functionality was removed from the 222. Would be nice though even if it was limited say to one record and one playback concurrently.

As to the question of the 622 recording to EHD, is it possible, and I have no insight whatsoever that says it is or is not, that the DVR conversion feature that can be sent to the 211 could some how have been sent to his 622s? I would think that this would not be possible as I would assume that a feature not intended for a particular class of receiver could not be applied to one of a different class, but who knows. I know I don't.

On average, USB 2.0 can handle ~20MB/sec half-duplex. This means that you could do 10MB/sec up (recording) and 10MB/sec down (playback) at the same time (OR 15/5, 5/15, 7/13, etc.) DISH HD feeds typically use <1MB/sec. Even with OTA, the most it will use is ~2.4MB/sec. So, with recording 4 shows, 2 OTA, 2 SAT, plus playing back two feeds (lets just say they are OTA feeds,) that's still only ~11.6MB/sec out of ~20MB/sec available.

As for the 622 EHD recording thing, heck anything is possible, but how likely is it for that to have happened? Little to no possibility.
 
You are correct that USB 2.0 is Half Duplex but you are misunderstanding what half duplex is. With half duplex communication can only travel in one direction at a time. So you can send as little or as much traffic as you wish up to some max (not the theoretical max) in one direction at a time. You could not however have in your example 15MB going from the box to the drive while concurrently having another 5MB coming the other direction. Add to that the overhead involved in each conversation, the control and buffering of up to 6 conversations and USB 2.0 just is not going to do it. If and when Dish receivers have support for USB 3.0 which is Full Duplex then it will be viable as the total bandwidth would be split between all active data conversations which can take place both up and downstream concurrently. You can verify this yourself if you care to give it a shot. If you have a USB 2.0 drive that you can attach to your computer first try copying a single file from your computer to the drive and see what your throughput is. Next do two concurrently. Now keep upping the count until you not only are copying 4 to the drive but also 2 from the drive. You'll see that as you add more and more concurrent transfers to the mix your overall performance drops.
 
You are correct that USB 2.0 is Half Duplex but you are misunderstanding what half duplex is. With half duplex communication can only travel in one direction at a time. So you can send as little or as much traffic as you wish up to some max (not the theoretical max) in one direction at a time. You could not however have in your example 15MB going from the box to the drive while concurrently having another 5MB coming the other direction. Add to that the overhead involved in each conversation, the control and buffering of up to 6 conversations and USB 2.0 just is not going to do it. If and when Dish receivers have support for USB 3.0 which is Full Duplex then it will be viable as the total bandwidth would be split between all active data conversations which can take place both up and downstream concurrently. You can verify this yourself if you care to give it a shot. If you have a USB 2.0 drive that you can attach to your computer first try copying a single file from your computer to the drive and see what your throughput is. Next do two concurrently. Now keep upping the count until you not only are copying 4 to the drive but also 2 from the drive. You'll see that as you add more and more concurrent transfers to the mix your overall performance drops.

I am not misunderstanding half-duplex at all. 20MB/sec is 160Mbps, versus the "theoretical" 480Mbps that USB 2.0 can support. The overhead is already taken into account, thus, the reason it is 160Mbps and not 480Mbps. You are right in that in half-duplex, data is only sent one direction at a time. That is the very reason that the 20MB/sec average transfer rate is split between up/down. It's just like Wikipedia states, think of half-duplex as a one-lane highway, with traffic controllers on both ends, only allowing traffic to flow in one direction at a time. What you seem to be leaving out though, is the fact that the USB traffic changes directions in a matter of milliseconds, thus, allowing traffic in both directions, near-simultaneously.

Think of it this way: If the connection is capable of 20MB/sec down, while sending nothing up, then it is spending the full time sending that data downwards. Though, if you are trying to send another 20MB/sec up, while still maintaining 20MB/sec down, well, since it is half-duplex, the time spent sending data up and down is split (half of the time is spent sending, other half is spent receiving,) thus, 10MB/sec up and 10MB/sec down.

Same applies to 15MB/sec going to the drive, and 5MB/sec coming from the drive, less time is spent on data coming from the drive, thus, more time is allocated to sending data to the drive, thus, more bandwidth in that direction.

If it was full-duplex, it could just send the data both ways at full speed regardless, as there are separate "lanes" that are independent of each other.

Ethernet is full-duplex, thus, 100Mbps Ethernet can handle 12MB/sec up and 12MB/sec down (96Mbps up, 96Mbps down, including overhead.)

If anything the real limitation here is most likely the DVR's CPU. When data is being transferred to/from the EHD it is being encrypted/decrypted. Thus, for 4 streams being recorded, and 2 streams being played back, there is a good chance that it is too much for the CPU.
 
Think of it this way: If the connection is capable of 20MB/sec down, while sending nothing up, then it is spending the full time sending that data downwards. Though, if you are trying to send another 20MB/sec up, while still maintaining 20MB/sec down, well, since it is half-duplex, the time spent sending data up and down is split (half of the time is spent sending, other half is spent receiving,) thus, 10MB/sec up and 10MB/sec down.

Same applies to 15MB/sec going to the drive, and 5MB/sec coming from the drive, less time is spent on data coming from the drive, thus, more time is allocated to sending data to the drive, thus, more bandwidth in that direction.

.


What you describe is not 10MB up and 10MB down. At any point in time data is traveling in only one direction up to a max of whatever the link will support. You will never get 15MB one direction while also getting 5MB the other direction. USB, or any other half duplex media for that matter, never says more bandwidth this way and less that way. At any point in time it is all bandwidth in one direction Over the length of the transfers it may appear to average out this way but that is not what is going on. Now take into account that we are dealing with video here. Pausing for any real length of time is not an option either during reads or writes. There is only so much buffer to empty before you miss frames on the write or the video stutters or stops on the reads. Video is also an isochronous data flow so certain reservations are made.

The easiest way to show that this is not a viable option on USB 2.0 would be to do the following. Connect and external USB drive to your computer. Mac, Windows, Linux doesn't matter. Now copy two video files to this drive. Next open those files and let them begin playing. Next drag first one file to the hard drive while the two videos are playing, while that transfer is still going drag another over there, then another until you have 4 transfers going while the two videos are playing. Don't drag all four files at one time or it will stack them and not be doing 4 writes while trying to do 2 reads. Are you videos still playing smoothly if at all?

Now if it were full duplex, like USB 3.0 it should work, since the videos playing from the drive would never have to stop streaming to allow the new recordings time to be written to the drive. In a full duplex environment, then USB 2.0 would likely provide enough bandwidth for this type of operation.
 

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