ESPN HD Satellite Location?

[Inclined Orbit]

If only the word "warranted" meant that the truck roll would be performed under a warranty on the installation. In this case, it means "justified," and that's going to cost.

In my experience, the argument about using the receiver's meter would be much stronger if it were much more sensitive in the upper range of the scale. As it is, the first 60% or so of the scale is mostly wasted.

In my research degrading from the initial peak to down by 4dB on either side of peak for the dither procedure is ideal. Due to the limited amount of C/N or Eb/No that you can achieve on a Slimline dish, 4dB is about the most you can degrade and keep a stable signal to reliably repeat after tuning back through the peak to the other side. Back when the first Ka/Ku dish was released the receiver signal meters would read out in dB with a number like 97 being 9.7dB C/N or Eb/No or similar and it was easy to use for aligning the dish except for needing a TV monitor on the roof which I've done countless times. I have not played with a modern receiver but its signal meter can still be used to align the dish.

Some of the large uplink dishes used by DirecTV in the 9m to 13m range depending on what service and frequency will peak itself using a similar method and automatically every 15min to 30m by moving in several directions and degrading by maybe 1.5 to 2dB as it maps out where the peak is then it will calculate the center and park the dish there until the next peak cycle. That would be the step track mode and the basis for the dither procedure on the Slimline.

Other uplink dishes at DirecTV use a monopulse mode where the satellite beacon downlink and the beacon receiver on the ground along with other equipment make a continuous closed loop where AZ/EL motors are hot all the time and the dish will respond instantly to any satellite movement or if blown by the wind, etc. BTW, the satellites do move and are pulled by gravity, solar winds, etc, and about every two weeks need to be commanded back to their parking spot where they will slowly move again into a figure 8 type pattern that grows until the next time they are commanded back again. Don't think there were not any discussions at DirecTV on how to make a consumer dish automatically find and peak the satellite. Its possible, just not practical.

 

[raoul5788]

I am. I've watched some of his videos.

And yet you continue to question him. You are WAY over your head here.

 

[harshness]

And yet you continue to question him.

I'm not questioning him so much as reminding him that the typical subscriber doesn't have access to the same instruments that he does.

I am questioning whether an off-the-shelf spectrum analyzer (or any non-AIM 2.0 meter) can effectively be used with an SWM LNB assembly for "dithering" of all three parameters.

Falling back on a truck roll is obviously an option, but one that may take a while and will likely cost a C-note.

 

[raoul5788]

I'm not questioning him so much as reminding him that the typical subscriber doesn't have access to the same instruments that he does.

I am questioning whether an off-the-shelf spectrum analyzer (or any non-AIM 2.0 meter) can effectively be used with an SWM LNB assembly for "dithering" of all three parameters.

Falling back on a truck roll is obviously an option, but one that may take a while and will likely cost a C-note.

CDB

 

[harshness]

CDB

Only if you believe you must address the problem by starting from the very beginning.

 

[Inclined Orbit]

I'm not questioning him so much as reminding him that the typical subscriber doesn't have access to the same instruments that he does.

I am questioning whether an off-the-shelf spectrum analyzer (or any non-AIM 2.0 meter) can effectively be used with an SWM LNB assembly for "dithering" of all three parameters.

Falling back on a truck roll is obviously an option, but one that may take a while and will likely cost a C-note.

Every subscriber has a receiver and that receiver has a signal meter which works great for aligning the dish. The hassle there is getting a receiver and monitor on the roof to have everything at your fingertips. I mentioned before using a consumer receiver for this had have done it countless times in a laboratory setting and on rooftops. For a spectrum analyzer I've used everything from $60k HP/Agilent analyzers down to a $150 handheld TinySA and they all work great as long as they can do 1dB/div. The catch is needing a directional coupler on a coax line to the LNBs or a way to send the correct voltage/tone/DiSEqC to the LNBs and keep DC voltage out of the analyzer. Targeting 4dB for the side to side/up down degradation when counting turns on the dials is a goal.

The AIM meter is a great tool for alignment but it did not come out until a few years after the engineering effort on the initial Ka/Ku and Slimline dish and all alignment research and efforts that produced the procedures and dish manual were done with spectrum analyzers and common satellite installer meters of the day. Personally I prefer a spectrum analyzer but everyone has their pet instrument. I was also invited to participate in the design review meetings for the AIM meter and my only real contribution at that time was to consider newer LiFePO4 batteries for the meter as the NiMH batteries used by the satellite meter mfrs would need frequent replacement where the LiFePO4 would run for many years. The meter went into production with NiMH and I hate replacing my AIM battery every year or two.

I would not recommend your average consumer attempt aligning a Slimline type dish but with any of the meter type options above and some instructions I find most people can do a successful and very accurate alignment with proper training. Don't forget many installers may have worked at a car wash or some other non technical job before hiring on as an installer and in the limited amount of training I've done I can see if their getting it or if I have to modify the training in a way that makes it easier to understand for non technical types. Part of my regular job was training techs and engineers on maintenance and repair procedures on satellite uplink/downlink equipment at broadcast centers and I'm all about the student proving they can perform the task after training.

 

[harshness]

The catch is needing a directional coupler on a coax line to the LNBs or a way to send the correct voltage/tone/DiSEqC to the LNBs and keep DC voltage out of the analyzer.

That's a whale of a catch.

 

[Inclined Orbit]

That's a whale of a catch.

A 6dB directional coupler or a splitter with DC pass on one port is a $10 or less part, not a big deal. The knowledge on how to use it is more important which is why most consumers will not be dragging a receiver and monitor to the roof for alignment. However, all you need these days is a good YouTube video to show how its done and you would be surprised on how many people would then attempt it.

 

[Tom Speer]

That's a whale of a catch.

16 years ago when DirecTV was first able to deliver HD Locals into smaller markets with the Spaceways satellites, I had a "new customer" install of a Slimline dish at one of my homes, and 5 months later paid for a truck roll for an identical satellite setup at my summer home. I move the receivers every 6 months. I have been doing Inclined Orbit's "Dithering Procedure" from time to time ever since. This has been especially important at my Adirondack Mountain home because the tech didn't have the right stuff for a pole mount for the only location with a clear line of sight to the satellite, and he mounted the dish to a poorly anchored 4x4 fence post. (The nearest hardware store for the bag of concrete was 30 minutes away).

I realigned that dish every spring for many years. Back then, the AIM meter wasn't available. I used a DIRECTV ASL-1 splitter, which was designed for that purpose, and a cheap analog "signal finder" (about $10 then). he procedure is in the ASL-1 instructions, and I later watched the video. I still use them today, and have installled multiple slimline dishes with no problem. The ASL-1 is occasionally available on eBay to this day. No spectrum analyzer required.