Fcc Approves Transfer Of Voom Satellite!

[David_Levin]

Since D* is starting their rollout of MPEG 4 pm the 16th E* better have their MPEG4 receiver ready. If not they are going to lose a boat load of customers!!

MPEG 4 is not directly the issue. D* is going to be pusing the new local HD offerings. Without the Phased-Array Sats E* is not going to be able to touch Direct in this area. E* will pick up VERY top markets and then will have to market themselves as the cost leader with the most national HD offereings (fine for us that can receive OTA).

From my perspective, MPEG 4 is not ready until a PVR is available. This will not be until mid next year for both D & E.

With 61.5 and 129 E* has some room to fill the gap with MPEG 2.

 

[specsmaker]

Any token MPEG2 HD offerings will depend on whether the MPEG4 receivers are ready in a warehouse somewhere, and the quantity of them. If E* can roll out MPEG4 with any significant impact, don't count on any token offerings. If the rollout is mostly lipservice then a token offering may be the answer to quiet down us geeks.

 

[stevelite]

Folks,

Will I be able to receive/subscribe to VOOM channels via dishnetwork with VOOM receiver? Currently I am only using Motorola VOOM receiver for OTA.. or do I need to get Dishpro receiver to get VOOM channels. I also have Dishpro 311. Thanks

 

[RandallA]

You need an E* receiver, 811, 921, 942 or 6000 with a dish pointed at either 61.5 or 129.

 

[JoeSp]

MPEG 4 is not directly the issue. D* is going to be pusing the new local HD offerings. Without the Phased-Array Sats E* is not going to be able to touch Direct in this area. E* will pick up VERY top markets and then will have to market themselves as the cost leader with the most national HD offereings (fine for us that can receive OTA).

From my perspective, MPEG 4 is not ready until a PVR is available. This will not be until mid next year for both D & E.

With 61.5 and 129 E* has some room to fill the gap with MPEG 2.

Phased-Array Sats are not what is going to push HD. MPEG4 is -- that is how D* will be offering HD-LIL and that is how E* will be offering HD-LIL. That is how HD-DVD is coming to the market -- heck lets face it -- those who want a MPEG4 DVR are going to wait till summer of 06 to get one the rest of us will be watching the new HD channels and the new HD-LIL offerings as soon as they become available to their area. Somehow everyone thinks that D*'s new sats are the bomb.

Here is a newsworthy note to you D-Boys -- with the approval by the FCC of the Rainbow sale E* can cover every major tv market on the East Coast with MPEG4 and they still will have two new sats up there not being used right now with a new one going up in a few weeks. Lets see, that is 4 Sats to what - ahh - one? It is the spot beams baby with MPEG4 that will drive HD LIL and E* has that covered. As for the MPEG 4 rollout -- both companies will be going slow-- those paying for HD channels now and in the near future will be the first converts -- the rest (about 95 % of all customers for both companies) will be last. I figure the who thing will take about 3 years.

 

[stevelite]

You need an E* receiver, 811, 921, 942 or 6000 with a dish pointed at either 61.5 or 129.

Bummer

 

[David_Levin]

Phased-Array Sats are not what is going to push HD. MPEG4 is -- that is how D* will be offering HD-LIL and that is how E* will be offering HD-LIL....

It is the spot beams baby with MPEG4 that will drive HD LIL and E* has that covered.

Well, your partially right. It's the Spot Beams. Mpeg 4 gives at best a 2x increase in capacity.

D* new Phased Array sats (4 of them) can do 100's of spot beams compared to 10's from the E* birds. That's where 1500 HD local channels comes from. And why E* can't do it with the sats they have (now or upcoming).

Now this is a very new use of this technology (Phased Array antennas have been around for a while). Hopefully it'll all work as expected.

 

[JoeSp]

Well, your partially right. It's the Spot Beams. Mpeg 4 gives at best a 2x increase in capacity.

D* new Phased Array sats (4 of them) can do 100's of spot beams compared to 10's from the E* birds. That's where 1500 HD local channels comes from. And why E* can't do it with the sats they have (now or upcoming).

Now this is a very new use of this technology (Phased Array antennas have been around for a while). Hopefully it'll all work as expected.

Somebody help me out here but I am not sure you can get 1500 hd channels on those 4 sats. Besides, with the second one going up shortly (or has it already lifted off) the next two are not due till 2007/2008. D* will not have complete use of all 4 sats untill the end of 2008. I think that D* is fudging with the 1500 hd channels (I believe that they are adding the OTA HD channels that their receivers can receive).

In any instance D* will have 2 new sats up there and E* will have 4(and we are not including the one at 148? that is not being used much and has spot beam capability and can cover the West Coast. Right now Charlie is in pretty good shape. We are just waiting for him to drop the hammer down!!

 

[GregN]

The big pipes are due to the KA Band Vs KU Band.

KU band transponder = garden hose
KA Band transponder = 12" pipe + spot

 

[rocatman]

A couple of clarifications related to satellite capacity/capability. First, the Rainbow-1 satellite has 130 spotbeam TPs. Using MPEG-4 this would give Dish the capacity to provide 780 HD LILs channels at 6 HD channels/TP. The 6 HD channels/TP with MPEG-4 may in fact be conservative. Dish may not be able to use all 130 from 61.5 W since some of the spotbeams are for the west coast and have poor look angles but even if they could only use 100, this is still 600 HD LILs channels. There has been some rumors that Dish may be able to move Rainbow-1 to another location such as 110 W or 129 W and still use the spotbeam capabilities but again this is only a rumor and I believe highly unlikely.

Dish plans to launch the Echostar-10 (E-10) satellite in early 2006 supposedly to 110 W. E-10 is a spotbeam/CONUS satellite and it has been speculated that it has similar spotbeam capacity as Rainbow-1. If E-10 goes to 110 W, this may free up both E-6 and E-8 to be moved to other DBS slots.

A couple of other things. Dish does not have a satellite at 148 W with spotbeam capability. Dish has applied to the FCC to move AMC-16 to 118.7 W for use of Ku band. Dish has a lease agreement with TeleSat for the Anik F3 satellite at 118.7 W but that satellite won't be launched until the 3rd quarter of 2006 at the earliest. By the way, I believe a modified Superdish could be used to receive 110, 119, 118.7 (or 121) and 129. AMC-16 is suppose to go back to 85 W after the Anik F3 satellite is launched. Dish has licenses for Ka band at some other slots including 117 W and 113 W so Dish may want to request to have AMC-16 moved to one of these locations since it has Ka band spotbeam capability as does AMC-15 at 105 W and E-9 at 121 W. In addition, Dish has license to extended Ku band at 109 W and AMC-16 might be able to provide some extended Ku band similar to AMC-6 that SES Americom is trying to get FCC approval to use.

I mentioned Superdish above because the DirecTV dish that will be required to receive HD LILs from the Speceway/Ka band satellites appears to be a bit larger than a Superdish so Dish can use some of their regular Ku band capability for HD LILs and still compete with DirecTV related to dish size.

Dish also is scheduled to launch E-11 in early 2007 although no details regarding its capabilities has been published. In addition, Dish also has a lease agreement with SES Americom for AMC-14 another DBS satellite (no spotbeams). AMC-14 was scheduled to be launched in early 2006 to 105.5 W, a DBS tweener slot but the FCC has not approved DBS tweener slots. There is the possiblity that Dish may have use of this satellite for other licensed slots if the 105.5 W slot is not approved. One location would be the 77 W slot that Dish has applied for use in the U.S.

To state that Dish will not be able to compete with DirecTV in the next year or two because of the lack of satellite capacity is completely false. One of the things that Dish has done exceptionally well over the past year and a half is to acquire access to satellite capacity.

 

[navychop]

KA - weaker signal, subject to more rain fade. IIRC satellites are usually 2 degrees apart.
KU - stronger signal, less rain fade. IIRC satellites are usually 9 degrees apart.

 

[rocatman]

KA - weaker signal, subject to more rain fade. IIRC satellites are usually 2 degrees apart.
KU - stronger signal, less rain fade. IIRC satellites are usually 9 degrees apart.

Almost right. DBS is part of the Ku band and is different from "regular" Ku band in that it is typically allowed to be at a higher power and less susceptible to rain fade than either Ka band or regular Ku band. I am not sure about any power differences between Ka and Ku band but Ka band is more susceptible to rain fade because of the frequency of the signal.

DBS is usually at least 9 degrees apart although there are exceptions related to use in countries separated by other countries. For example there are Canadian DBS slots at 72.5 W and 82 W with a Mexican slot at 77 W. DirecTV has use of the 72.5 W slot in the U.S. while Dish is trying to get approval for use of the 77 W slot in the U.S. The 82 W slot is used in Canada.

As a side note if Dish gets approval for use of 77 W, it will not be CONUS and limited to the southern parts of the U.S. to avoid interference with the 82 W slot in Canada. The big conflict might be with DirecTV's 72.5 W Canadian slot which is used to provide locals to some southern U.S. cities.

 

[navychop]

Thank you. And so FSS signals are just set at lower power levels by regulation? And are KA band transmissions all FSS and no DBS (which would accommodate closer spacing)?

 

[rocatman]

Thank you. And so FSS signals are just set at lower power levels by regulation? And are KA band transmissions all FSS and no DBS (which would accommodate closer spacing)?

I believe the answer to both your questions is Yes.

 

[datwell]

Allright!! Since we are wrestling with questions - Just what is E* going to do with Rainbow I and when and from which bird will I get the Washington, DC HD LILs?

---Doug

 

[BFG]

From an antenna that you plug into the 8VSB port of your receiver

 

[JoeSp]

Thanks rocatman for the info. I stand corrected on the spotbeams at 148 but can that sat still cover the west coast? You are only talking about 15 major tv markets on the west coast - I believe it is 15. Also, I have read that E* will have to build new uplink centers for HD-LIL. Can they not use the ones they have and install MPEG4 equpment and keep going?

 

[riffjim4069]

I thought the Black Hawk, SD uplink facility they purchased from Rainbow DBS had all the equipment and encoders in place to support HD-LIL, etc. BTW, since it hasn't been address for quite some time, can someone please provide us with more detail about the Black Hawk facility (i.e. equipment, operational, etc.)?

 

[navychop]

My HD LiLs come in just fine. OTA.
E* has not announced when they will provide HD LiLs, so no one can answer that. Maybe we'll know more first quarter 2006.

 

[rocatman]

Thanks rocatman for the info. I stand corrected on the spotbeams at 148 but can that sat still cover the west coast? You are only talking about 15 major tv markets on the west coast - I believe it is 15. Also, I have read that E* will have to build new uplink centers for HD-LIL. Can they not use the ones they have and install MPEG4 equpment and keep going?

There are actually two Dish satellites at 148 W, E-1 and E-2 and each of these is only able to provide half of the 32 DBS frequencies from there. Certainly the west coast markets can see the 148 W slot but unless programming is moved from there, I don't think there is enough room to provide HD LILs to all of these markets. Dish of course could use some of the capacity at 129 W for HD LILs which would allow a single dish solution using a D1000 dish. Dish also has licenses for 29 frequencies at 157 W but no satellite there but I believe most of the major markets on the west coast can see that slot as well. As noted in my previous post E-6 and/or E-8 may be available for use at other slots once E-10 is launched.

In terms of uplink centers, I believe Dish is building a new one in Washington state. They have also been expanding there uplink centers in Arizona and Wyoming. I do not have any detailed information on the Black Hawk facility acquired in the Rainbow sale but at the time the purchase was announced back in January, others had posted that the facility was just about ready for operations including providing HD LILs. I don't know whether it was ready to use MPEG-4.