First foray into FTA

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NotBrad

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Original poster
Jan 19, 2014
31
1
oregon Coast
Hi All,

Decided to get into the FTA thing.

I read through this thread http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads...system-do-you-recommend?p=3403747#post3403747

And checked out the system he mentioned http://satelliteav.com/shop/?ws_pid=1611&ws_cat=413

Couple of questions 1) - is there anything in the system above (or similar) that would be a good upgrade or better choice for a few more bucks (offer DVR, etc...)? Our viewing is mainly Broadcast TV, some sports and FX, AMC, Food Channel, etc... so any insight on that would be appreciated as well.

And 2) - Before I yank down the old Directv dish, is there anything I should know (anything it'd be useful for, etc...)?



Thanks,
Brad
 
Welcome to FTA!! With the right Bracket and Linear LNBF you can use that dish for Ku, for about 80% of channels. Dish really needs to be a little bit bigger but that would get your feet wet. Having said that though it might be a little rough to do that for a newbie. I would take it down and order a proper dish, but save that one for later.
 
Thanks for the response and welcome. Been wanting to do this for years but have always had a cable intnernet connection for business so couldn't really justify it.

That sounds like good advice. I figure that the newbie kit referenced in the other thread would probably be very easy to get going on and then later (like sports and cars and all other hobbies) I can obsess and spend more...
 
The SatelliteAv package is complete Ku** system for one satellite at a time. Later, add a motor to have it automatically swing the dish to others. And/or add a switch and have two 'fixed' dishes aimed at two different satellites. Or 1 on a motor and the other fixed. Can be as simple or as complex as you want.
FTA will not get you FX, AMC, Food Channel, etc... It is not a regular* source for 'cable' channels.
To see what you will get with the package check Mikes English language channel list at http://www.global-cm.net/mpeg2central.html and/or TheList (Top of page) Note: no list is ever 100% up to date.
*although, now and then one may go unscrambled for a period of time. Then there's the 'feeds' to search for also.
**Ku - frequencies between 11700 and 12200 for domestic satellites.
 
This is a fun thing getting into a fun rewarding hobby. It always neat to see what you can watch. I can get about 40 channels to watch overall not bad for free.

Dan rose
 
I'm planning/saving for the SatAV pack...till then, Can I snag a LNB and a Low-Cost 'box' and get the Radio Channels from G-19 on my old 18" DirecTv dish? I think I'd need a bracket of some sort to change the angle of reception. Can I buy one of those too?
 
I'm planning/saving for the SatAV pack...till then, Can I snag a LNB and a Low-Cost 'box' and get the Radio Channels from G-19 on my old 18" DirecTv dish? I think I'd need a bracket of some sort to change the angle of reception. Can I buy one of those too?

I'm not a pro, but I'll go out on a limb here to try and explain and if I'm wrong, I hope someone will correct me. The old 18" pizza dish (not the elliptical one that NotBrad has pictured) is undersized for receiving G-19. I think some expert hobbyists here had luck on stronger transponders on other satellites with that size, but not with G-19. "Radio" is kind of a misnomer. They're not radio signals in the traditional sense (that a portable radio can pick up your local FM station, but a portable TV needs more antenna for that), nor are they what we would call "Satellite Radio" such as Sirius XM (uses different power and entirely different spectrum than both the pay satellite and FTA satellite bands). Basically FTA Radio stations are just "audio only" channels that tell most modern receivers to list them as "Radio" so that you know there is no picture.

Now if someone had a dish that was at least 30 inches in diameter they were giving away or letting go for cheap, you could get the lnbf and cheap-o box and be good to go for G-19.
 
thanks, I'm wanting the 'radio' 'stuff' to re-broadcast on my little part15 FM transmitter...so I thought 'maybe' I could get that done...
 
I'm not a pro, but I'll go out on a limb here to try and explain and if I'm wrong, I hope someone will correct me. The old 18" pizza dish (not the elliptical one that NotBrad has pictured) is undersized for receiving G-19. I think some expert hobbyists here had luck on stronger transponders on other satellites with that size, but not with G-19. "Radio" is kind of a misnomer. They're not radio signals in the traditional sense (that a portable radio can pick up your local FM station, but a portable TV needs more antenna for that), nor are they what we would call "Satellite Radio" such as Sirius XM (uses different power and entirely different spectrum than both the pay satellite and FTA satellite bands). Basically FTA Radio stations are just "audio only" channels that tell most modern receivers to list them as "Radio" so that you know there is no picture.

Now if someone had a dish that was at least 30 inches in diameter they were giving away or letting go for cheap, you could get the lnbf and cheap-o box and be good to go for G-19.

Now I've got a stupid question, in doing some reading I came across something that said the elliptical ones are such that you can stick multiple LNBFs in them and pick up different satellites without needing a motor. Could I use the existing LNBF that's in there (the existing dish in the photo) add another one or two and then route them to an a/b/c box and then into a receiver or will the directv LNBF not work for a regular receiver ( I know it won't pull dtv offerings, the card in the receiver prevents that) but can it be used to receive plain old FTA signals? IOW, is it just a normal LNBF and could be used as such?

Just wondering as it'd let me buy a receiver and kind of try out FTA on the cheap before going whole hog on a dish, motor, running more cable, etc...
 
No such thing as a stupid question here!

The setup you mentioned with multiple LNBFs works well if the satellites you want are not too close together and yet not too far apart. But, I really don't know how it would work on a small elliptical -- no experience here on that! So that's something I cannot address.

However, I do have experience in general with a dish like yours. I failed miserably when I first started in FTA to figure it out. I put it aside and got a real dish. I discovered a stable mount is very important! I learned. I motorized the dish. I learned. I perfected the tracking of the arc by making sure the motor and mast were plumb. I learned! I actually relocated the dish to see more of the arc! I learned. Then I took out the small dish again. Still could not get the darn thing to work. But I also realized how bent out of shape my dish was and that I didn't have a good pole or mount for it in the first place -- so after locating another proper sized FTA dish, I tossed the elliptical. Lots of folks have luck with them. But for some reason, even after years of experience, I couldn't get that particular one to cooperate. You might have better luck, but don't get frustrated if you can't ever get it to work.

Be careful about switches. Satellite boxes actually send electrical current out to the LNBF at the dish, which selects the polarity (or moves the motor before selecting the polarity), then sends the signal back into the receiver. So, you'll want to read up about them in the FAQs and ask questions before doing that :)

The LNBF may or may not "work" with an FTA receiver. That is to say, you might get a receiver that allows you to set the correct parameters for the LNBF, and you will be able to get a reading. I did this. My dad is a subscriber to Dish. I first purchased a cheap-o clone receiver (not intentionally, but it still took three returns for the company to send me a legitimate one). During that frustrating time, I bought a used Traxis receiver that couldn't receive the newer signals, but would work on some of the older style ones. I sat the parameters correctly, had it scan the satellite, and in came the channels. 99% were scrambled. What I mean is, if you look at the channel on the receiver, you see a blank screen with the message "scrambled" on it. There was one or two channels that had the "Welcome to Dish" setup channel playing. That is all that was "FTA" on Dish. I'm not even sure DirecTV uses the same frequencies as Dish. However to answer your question, no. You cannot use the LNBF to receive FTA. From Wikipedia (with my notes thrown in):

[h=3]The Americas[/h]Segments in most of The Americas are represented by ITU Region 2 from 11.7 to 12.2 GHz (Local Oscillator Frequency (LOF) 10.750 to 11.250 GHz), allocated to the FSS (fixed service satellite),--[ Ku-band FTA]. There are more than 22 FSS K[SUB]u[/SUB] band satellites orbiting over North America, each carrying 12 to 48 transponders, 20 to 120 watts per transponder, and requiring a 0.8-m to 1.5-m antenna for clear reception.
The 12.2 to 12.7 GHz (LOF 11.250 to 11.750 GHz) segment is allocated to the BSS (broadcasting satellite service). BSS (DBS direct broadcast satellites) normally carry 16 to 32 transponders of 27 MHz bandwidth running at 100 to 240 watts of power, allowing the use of receiver antennas as small as 18 inches (450 mm). -- [this is your Dish Network, DirecTV, and Bell pay satellite services].

The reason I've gone into excruciating detail is that I went the route you're headed down and enjoyed it! But I also paid a lot more than was necessary. The OpenBox was the best at the time, but I didn't realize how many clones were out there. I only had an elliptical, not a proper FTA dish, and couldn't get it to work properly -- but I didn't know if I needed to point it elsewhere, if the angle was off, if the LNBF was good or bad, if it was the right LNBF, if my Openbox was even working properly, etc. So, I bought the Traxis. Great, it got a signal -- so it was partly the OpenBox fault. I gave up on the elliptical. I found a Ku-band dish on the cheap (lucky me!), but was afraid to mount it because I didn't know what I was doing. I bought a proper LNBF. I moved the dish this way and that. I tried both satellite boxes. Nothing! Waited half a year. Bought a compass and satellite meter. Asked for help in building a proper base for the mount and dish. Done. Still nothing. Tried the next day, adjusting angles, going up and down, left and right, and taking the advice from members here to move extremely slowly and wait. Finally!!! G-19 came in! I couldn't believe it! I found it! Exactly the satellite I was looking for, too! I bought more coax, connectors, etc. to run it into my room to watch. Later bought a motor that fried within a year. Purchased a higher quality motor.... bought some more coax, tools, etc.

I also recommend the package because at $199 shipped (and even if you put down another $100 for a motor later), it is a big savings. But if you want to go my route anyway, then I suggest you look for the dish first and mount that sucker appropriately once you get it :)

 
thanks, I'm wanting the 'radio' 'stuff' to re-broadcast on my little part15 FM transmitter...so I thought 'maybe' I could get that done...

If I were you, I'd just be patient a little longer and get the package -- best deal for all new and modern stuff and you won't regret it! You can read my other response to hear about my experiences with little dishes, and that was with a proper elliptical. With an 18" dish, you may find yourself in tears just to get a blip of anything FTA. But, check on Craigslist. Every now and then, some new homeowner (or maybe a new wife??) is horrified to find this crazy satellite stuff around the place and tries to get rid of it or sell it really cheap. That's how I got my brother's FTA system last year.
 
Many thanks for the detailed and informative post. Yeah, I'll most likely just get the starter kit one and a good motor. Thanks fully the existing dish is mounted on a good solid pipe sunk in the ground well (I live on the Oregon coast and to say we get high winds is severe understatement). After reading some of the comments I was thinking "well maybe I can just get a recv'r and hook it up to the DTV LBNF and get some FTA without having to go whole hog"... Oh well, it was worth wondering about.

Thanks again for the super informative post, it was greatly appreciated.
 
I'm planning/saving for the SatAV pack...till then, Can I snag a LNB and a Low-Cost 'box' and get the Radio Channels from G-19 on my old 18" DirecTv dish? I think I'd need a bracket of some sort to change the angle of reception. Can I buy one of those too?

About the only thing good for a 18" dish is CCTV on 95w. There might be some other strong feeds it will get but I consider it a waste of time. I have a modified Dish 500 which is two inches bigger and it will get some channels on Galaxy 19 but 24" is really the bare minimum on that satellite. Ask on Freecycle or check Craigslist for free dishes or near free and you should find one bigger than that 18" one.

You can use a bracket like this to replace the LNB on a Directv or Dish Network dish but you will have to take measurements from the old one to determine mounting distance from the face of the dish.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Univers...441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c75f9dd69

Add $6 for cheap LNB plus $20 to $30 for standard def receiver and you could get started for under $40
 
Many thanks for the detailed and informative post. Yeah, I'll most likely just get the starter kit one and a good motor. Thanks fully the existing dish is mounted on a good solid pipe sunk in the ground well (I live on the Oregon coast and to say we get high winds is severe understatement). After reading some of the comments I was thinking "well maybe I can just get a recv'r and hook it up to the DTV LBNF and get some FTA without having to go whole hog"... Oh well, it was worth wondering about.

Thanks again for the super informative post, it was greatly appreciated.
Welcome to SatGuys. We live in the Columbia Gorge.... WINDS? Only 47 MPH yesterday. Still below 30MPH today. We are 1700 feet ABOVE the John Day Dam. I have one dish I might let go... Where are you on the coast? And do you come inland often? PM me if you like. POP
 
Welcome to SatGuys. We live in the Columbia Gorge.... WINDS? Only 47 MPH yesterday. Still below 30MPH today. We are 1700 feet ABOVE the John Day Dam. I have one dish I might let go... Where are you on the coast? And do you come inland often? PM me if you like. POP

Thanks for the offer Pop! We're in Gold Beach, we don't get 'em that bad except during storms. Fortunately Port Orford and Cape Blanco shave a few MPH off of the winds before they get to us. The Gorge is a beautiful area, at that height you've got to have some incredible views. Bout the only time I get inlands is going to Medford to play in old fart (50+) softball tournaments, but the wife and I are planning on doing some fairly serious traveling this summer, will definitely give you a shout if/when we hit that area.
 
O know where Gold Beach is... A strong earthquake and a strong wind could put you in Calif.. ( not quite!) Is that not where Turtle Rock RV Park is?

LOL. Hopefully not, that's why I moved here, to get away from Cali. We're actually in Ophir, about 9 miles north of GB.

Turtle Rock is on the south edge of town (slightly out of town I think). It's right by Arch Rock Brewery which is a great little local brewery. Highly suggest picking up a growler anytime you're close by.
 
Growler? Here's what I thought of when I read 'growler', hehe:
 

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