Fix Social Security?

How should we "fix" Social Security?

  • Self directed investments of all or part of SS “contributions”

    Votes: 11 57.9%
  • Institute "means testing" to reduce the # of people receiving benefits

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Increase the Normal Retirement Age, and perhaps the early retirement age

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Increase population thru births & immigration.

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Increase FICA/OASDI taxes significantly.

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Tax the rich more and make them pay.

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Some combination of the above.

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Do nothing and hope the problem goes away.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19
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navychop

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Jul 20, 2005
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THE PROBLEM:

We have more people retiring with fewer workers to support them. The current Normal Retirement Age is 65, moving up to 67. Early retirement remains 62 (ages referring to SS eligibility). A much smaller percentage of the population was on SS in 1940 than today. Unless something changes, we simply cannot afford to pay SS benefits in the future as we have in the past. And keep in mind, officially, SS benefits are a Supplement, and are not supposed to be your sole source of retirement income. SS has enabled people to retire much earlier than they used to, but at a cost to the federal and state budgets.


From this link we get:
"In the 1930s average life expectancy in the U.S. was 57 years. Setting the age for retirement benefits at 65 years meant the majority of people would die before becoming eligible to collect. Today, the average life expectancy is 76 years. By the middle of this century, the average American will live to be 82.

A system that was financially feasible when only a minority survived to collect benefits is infeasible when a majority is expected to live a decade or more collecting benefits.

Because Social Security cannot continue as currently structured, we must choose which type of change is most palatable. The approaches fit into the following categories: (1) personal accounts, (2) means testing, (3) increasing the retirement age, (4) increasing population growth, or (5) raising taxes."


And from the CBO we get:

"- Once the baby-boom generation retires, the portion of the nation's output that the federal government will spend on Social Security will increase by more than 50 percent--from 4.2 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in fiscal year 2001 to an estimated 6.5 percent in 2030.

- Addressing the growing cost of Social Security would not by itself relieve the economic and budgetary pressure caused by the aging of the U.S. population. The rapidly escalating costs of the government's health care programs are a major source of that pressure. CBO projects that federal spending for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid combined will account for roughly 15 percent of GDP in 2030--double the current share.

- Although policymakers have many goals, if they want to limit the growth of spending on the elderly as a share of GDP, they have only two options: slow the growth of total payments to the elderly or increase the growth of the economy."

And:

"[Medicare and Medicaid] together with Social Security, already [in 2001] account for nearly half of all federal spending, excluding interest payments on federal debt. If the programs are not changed, by 2030 they could consume two-thirds of the federal budget."


Also, see the life expectancy table here.


So- What should we do?

1. Let people invest some or all of their own money withing the SS system, and live with the results, good or bad. Keep in mind the current sad state of the stock market and economy.

2. Institute "means testing," so while everybody pays in to the system, only those officially declared "in need" will receive benefits, and those benefits will be on a sliding scale. From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs. As determined by the government. Keep in mind, this is done in parts of Europe (or so I hear) with the net result very little is saved for retirement, because people feel it's better to enjoy it now and let the government take care of you later. Why save when it will mean you won't get benefits later, and end up with less overall?

3. Increase the Normal Retirement Age, and perhaps the early retirement age as well, to where the ratio of workers to retirees is closer to what it was in 1940 or some other date when SS was viewed as more affordable to the nation. Adjust it periodically and give folks say, a 4 or 5 year advance notice as to when they can count on being eligible for SS retirement benefits. This might mean retirement at 70 or 72, up from 67, for folks born after some point in the 1950s.

4. Increase the young end of the population thru birth incentives and significantly increased immigration of young people. Might be a little late for the former, have to concentrate on the latter and ensure they're almost all productive workers.

5. Increase taxes significantly, in an attempt to just cover the bill. That means your FICA/OASDI will then go up, which is a %age of income. Harder on lower income people.

6. Tax the rich more and make them pay. Might encourage more tax evasion, as it has in Europe.

7. Some combination of the above.
 
Die young, okay joking aside with SS in trouble, collapsing economy demolishing retirement accounts and the need for an overhaul of our health system it's depressing being a very small business owner in my mid fifties.
 
OK- should have put in option 9: Die young. ;)

And some tax proposals and health care proposals will fall heavily on small businesses. Just adding equal treatment of mental and physical problems alone is expected to increase our health insurance costs by at least 30%. We might have to move to catastrophic coverage only, or none. I'm sure the more onerous burdens discussed will not pass, but it is frightening how easily government missteps can put a small business under.
 
The only way to fix it, is to Restore it to it's original form. Where it was a separate Fund, into itself. Congress could not touch it, or manipulate it. It worked just fine, until Congress took it and placed it in with the General Fund, so they could spend the money. Now all the money is gone, only worthless paper left....????
 
Can anyone speak to what percentage of social security payments are paid out to SSDI recipients? That seems to be the biggest scam going.

One of my guilty pleasures is watching Judy Judy. (She should run for office!). Anyway... seems like every trailer trash moron that passes through the court is either directly collection or has a gaggle of kids collecting SSDI payments, for some clearly trumped up reasons.
 
2. Institute "means testing," so while everybody pays in to the system, only those officially declared "in need" will receive benefits, and those benefits will be on a sliding scale. From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs. As determined by the government. Keep in mind, this is done in parts of Europe (or so I hear) with the net result very little is saved for retirement, because people feel it's better to enjoy it now and let the government take care of you later. Why save when it will mean you won't get benefits later, and end up with less overall?

I certainly understand that position. Why should I have to essentially save money for my own retirement while also paying taxes to finance someone else's retirement, who didn't, for whatever reason, save for their own?

It certainly doesn't seem fair. I believe there should be a safety net for widows and the fatherless and the infirm... but there are just too damn many people in this country who won't do a dang thing and expect the government to take care of them, on my dime.
 
There are a number of considerations but I believe the "self directed investments" point is the most important so I chose it. Folks should have some say over at least some portion of what they "invest" in ithe SSA based on whatever instrument is most suitable to them, with risks considered, and live with the outcome. I read somewhere that on average a benefactor now only receives something like a 4% ROI in the current system invested in US Treasury securities and that stinks. To be sure everyone should still be required to invest in his SSI, but he should have more say in how those investments perform.

And for the most part one's investment can't be transferred to others on his death. (Benefits continue for widow(er)s and dependent children but the core investment is often lost to everyone.) The taxpayer-controlled portion should have a lump-sum payout option if that is large enough to exceed the expected benefits pay-out over the eligibility period of the surviving benefactors.

I also like options 2 and 3. I do not favor increasing what anyone (rich or otherwise) have to pay in unless their benefits increase as well. Anything else is just another form of income redisribution. I also don't favor raising the eligibility ages (probably since I am closer than many to them!) but there could be high tiers added, i.e. even higher pay-outs for delaying receiving benefits even more. And I don't favor "means testing" beyond the usual (legal resident, paid-in, etc.) Anyone who paid in should get their share back out, and IMHO that should be at least equal to what they paid in.

And something hinted at in posts above: in order to avoid dependence on SSI everyone should be receiving an education on basic economics before they have to learn it in the "SOHK" (school of hard knocks), about the importance of SAVING for future needs and the foibles of depending on someone else ESPECIALLY the gov't for their future needs...!
 
I have an aunt who is 70 and is still working as a nurse practioner. She planned on retiring this year, but 2 years ago when the U.S. Budget was showing signs of trouble, no "early retirement". She joked with me the other day she hopes she can hold out retirement until 75.
 
Theres no fixing it, once the goverment got a taste of income taxes to pay for war that was it. For the feds money is like a heroine addiction that they wont be able to kick till they die or the people vote out democracy and go with a diferent form of goverment.
 
I'm really surprised that there is still so much support for self-directed. Especially considering where the Dow is today. And forecasts of bad times ranging from 2 to 10 years.
 
I dont support self directed just for that reason, the markets at the mercy of speculators and blind judgement makers wich is why my mothers 401k has lost $20k over the last month or so.
 
The only way to fix it, is to Restore it to it's original form. Where it was a separate Fund, into itself. Congress could not touch it, or manipulate it. It worked just fine, until Congress took it and placed it in with the General Fund, so they could spend the money. Now all the money is gone, only worthless paper left....????
Do this and take the missing money from those that took it... ie, the Congress that stole it in the first place ;) No soup for you for them!
 
My solution is not on the poll. In short, get rid of the thing. It's nothing but a Ponzi scheme and if attempted by anybody other than the all-powerful federal government would be completely illegal and the perpetrator would be jailed and his assets seized to pay back the victims.

- nobody pays FICA anymore.
- anyone who has never paid FICA will never collect any benefits.
- payment to current and future beneficiaries from the general fund.
- those who have paid in up to now would be eligible for a prorated benefit at retirement based on how long they have been in the system and how much they paid to date when FICA tax was abolished.

It hurts for a while but then it's gone. Once all the people alive and paying FICA when this starts have died, it's done. Everyone responsible for their own retirement after that.
 
What about us who are actually disabled, (my case: bad back and bad nerves physically & psycological), hmm? If the gov cuts off or reduce SSI payments to those who actually need help finacially and can't work... all you-know-what's gonna break loose!

When my little SSI check comes through each month, after all the bills are paid, I'm lucky if I have $300 bucks left to spend the rest of the month along with $80 in Food Stamps and a $64 monthly payment. And I've noticed over the past year price increases on everyday items, especially on groceries.

I don't drive, don't have a car, use a public transportation service that operates 1 or 2 times a week. So, I try to get as many groceries and necessities as I can, depending on the amount of people on the bus.

Most of the money in one month I've noticed goes for groceries.

For example, I used to get 3-12 packs of Coke products for $10, Pepsi: 3-12pks. $10.
Now 2-12 Coke packs: $8, Pepsi: 3-12pks. $11

1 gal. Skim Milk - $3.49

1 loaf white bread - $1.89

1 dz. extra large eggs - $1.89


That's just sample of my grocery list for a week.
 
Exactly.

We've already made the decision to take on publicly at least part of the burden of retirement - at age, disability, etc. Fund and do it right. We've already learned that leaving people to their own devices does not work. For society as a whole, we have some safety nets.
 
Read again... nowhere did I mention reducing benefits to those already receiving them.
 
We should continue some public retirement support because many people won't do it themselves. And we'd be better off ensuring they get something. Yes, not just current and previous recipients, but future ones also.

This is awkward for me, I consider myself conservative!
 
Agreed on all accounts! I was talking about a hybrid that still forced folks to put away something for retirement. But that has to be coupled with the means, motivation, and savvy for all to do better than what SSI can provide in its present form. All too many folks still think that's all they're going to need in their retirement years. We're looking for long-term solutions here, so the 2-10 year current market debacle will be history long before young folks entering their careers are needing the money. And the sooner we can encourage more investment in the private sector the quicker the market will stabilize and turn around...
 
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