FLASH: No Name Based Recording on 921, 721, 501, 508, 510

[Stargazer]

This is a good sign and it shows that some attention was well made from here. One thing you can do is help this site grow even more so there will be an even stronger presence here and there is much much much room for additional members to this site. Charlie could also be looking for the quotes to prove that the way that they were stated may indicate not a promise but that it 'may' happen and so forth. If it was something that was promised but was taken back then he might push to get the NBR added and try to see what is preventing it from happening. If this site would cause NBR in itself to be added to those receivers then that in itself would be a great accomplishment for us, and it would be even better if we accomplish other things on the 921 and other things that was stated would be added.

 

[TuxCoder]

Can someone please get me the audio from the July Tech Chat?

Well... if we had firewire connectivity, we could get this to him a lot quicker now, couldn't we?!?

Just had to throw that in.

Anyways, as for myself I think I might still have it on my 522. I'll report back in about 2.5 hours (unless someone else has it) but don't get your hopes up...

 

[shadowman11]

We didn't forget about the 510's.

I am waiting for someone to find the audio from the july chat where they talked about NBR and gave approx release dates for each model.

Hopefully someone can find it and send it to me. That is what Charlie is looking for.

Also a good find from Jason Kraght on DBSTalk its a press release issued by Dish Network on September 5th, 2003.

The line of interest is this one...

Good find Jason.

There is is AGAIN in Black and white.

Can someone please get me the audio from the July Tech Chat?

Scott

Scott,

I'm sure that Dish has the audio and video archived themselves. Seems like you (and the rest of us) are getting the run around while Charlie looks for people to blame and heads to cut, then he can say that the source of the mis-information is no longer an employee :shocked

 

[TuxCoder]

Scott,

I'm sure that Dish has the audio and video archived themselves.

I figured that as well, but it sure doesn't hurt when it's actually us with all the "See?! I told you so!" rather than just "Check your own copy, I'm sure you'll see..."

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

From where I sit, it was going to be brushed under a rug.

According to Echostar spokesperson they do not issues statements when they discontinue something.

It is just like the Firewire fiasco, which we also broke, if it were not for us mentioning it it would never have been mentioned.

I have spoken to a few lawyers who have contacted me, and we do have a very good case here. But honestly I don't want to take the legal route, because all's we are going to get out of that is a few Pay Per View coupons. (Speaking of which I never received my coupons promised for my Dishplayers.)

What would make me happy (Charlie are you listening?) if Charlie used his power as CEO and issue a statement that they have reconsidered the name based recording option and have decided to impliment it and we will have it on ALL Dish DVR by a certain date. And I want that promise and date IN WRITING.

If Charlie did that he would soothe many of the upset customers who feel screwed over by Dish in this matter.

Hey Charlie that would also make a nice Christmas gift.

 

[cbstv]

Is the customer always right anymore???

If we, the customer, are paying $$$ for a specific (or even implied) feature, then why can't we expect to get it? Most other companies don't play games the way Charlie/E* do. This is crazy.

 

[mikew]

Doesn't Charlie have the tapes? My God! The archive should be available to him.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Of course Charlie has tapes.

He wants to see our hand. He's a poker player (and BTW he still owes me a game of poker from the last time we got together)

Im starting to think he thinks its a game. (Why am I hearing Alan Parsons Project playing "Games people play" in my head?)

 

[WeeJavaDude]

Here are some point on my perspective:

1) I am not a big fan of class action lawsuits. LIke someone mentioned earlier, we all know who gets rich when this route is taken. This is usually the first reaction that happens when these boards find out a direction change.

2) My guess is that given that they have some experience with adding NBR and know understand the amount of effort it will take to port it to the 921, 721, and 510 series. The 721 and 921 are based off the same code base by the 5xx series is a different code base. Doing a port into these different OS's and environments will not be an easy task. This is my guess why the decided not to do it. They would rather spend the effort on future receivers.

3) Software direction changes happen and features do get dropped all the time. Like Bob mentioned, this feature never was an advertised feature on the 921, 721, and 5xx. They did plan on adding it to these units as mentioned in the chats, but that does equate to promised features. The dishwire issues is totally different. I was also looking forward to this feature too and am very disappointed, but it does not suprise me given the MPEG4 direction and I could see them wanting to devote as much resources as possible to getting these receivers ready.

From what I can see it is obvious their was a decision of taking resources and devote them to either porting NBR to older receivers or place these resources on new receivers that will support NBR and MPEG4.

I would be willing to let this slide with a commitment that they provide "At no cost to their loyal customers" replacement receivers that support MPEG4 with NBR and to remove the $5 joke VOD fee. I think that would be an acceptable compromise that would allow Dish to concentrate on the future while minimize the concerns that a number of loyal customers have in terms of their investment.

Well that is my take. Hopefully this issue will get resolved with not too much bloodshed.

 

[psycaz]

You know, while I appreciate Mr. Ergen getting involved personally and "looking" at the problem, I have a very uneasy feeling about his requesting someone else to provide the pertinent informtion that he should easily have at hand.
It appears to me that he is seeing what information is available to someone where attorneys can get involved. No "proof" no problem.

I'll never understand why someone will go so far not to do something instead of doing what most would consider the "right" thing.

All this should come down to is his looking at his own tapes and seeing what was said.
If he feels that it was promised, the fulfil it. If it can't be down, say is can't be done and why.

If he doesn't hink it was promised, then come out with what he understands was said and how it wasn't a promise.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I just got an interesting email from Charlie...

But first here is what I wrote him...

From: Scott Greczkowski [mailto:scott@satelliteguys.us]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 1:11 PM
To: Ergen, Charlie
Subject: RE: Greeting from SatelliteGuys


Hi Charlie,

My guys are stilll putting stuff together. But in searching just
found this one from your own companies press release on September 5th,
2003. Which states the following...

"Winner of the Best of Show in the Innovations Design and Engineering
category at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, the DISH
Player-DVR 921 also offers:

-- DISHWire connection for future downloading and storage of content"

There you go once again in black and white.

Thanks again Charlie.

Here is his reply...

Yes, we will do that through the usb port...are you assuming dishwire is
'firewire'..

c

I am stumped on this reply. Any ideas?

 

[cdru]

From what I can see it is obvious their was a decision of taking resources and devote them to either porting NBR to older receivers or place these resources on new receivers that will support NBR and MPEG4.

Your delusional if you think that they will use the resources they "save" by not having to back port NBR to the older receivers and instead use it for newer receivers.

 

[gpflepsen]

Well, reading the line and between the line, it says they plan on using USB connectivity to handle off-loading of content.

That is another breaking news item, right here on Satguys.

 

[TuxCoder]

It could be he is reversing the perspective on the terms 'downloading and storage'. We all see that in conjunction with firewire and think "download to another device and store on the other device". He could be pulling a fast one on us and saying it always (as of now) means "download onto the 921 from another device and store on the 921". This would be like "play mp3s, show digital photos of your dog, etc." which better fits his USB statement.

 

[carload]

All this should come down to is his looking at his own tapes and seeing what was said.
If he feels that it was promised, the fulfil it. If it can't be down, say is can't be done and why.

(shrug) Look at it from his perspective. If somebody insists that Charlie promised every sub a pair of fuzzy dice on his February chat, why should Charlie have an employee spend an hour reviewing the tape to prove he didn't say that? The burden of proof is on the person who initiates the complaint.

I remember that he said something about NBR, and I remember being encouraged by it, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it was.

Finally, I'm still a little cheesed at Microsoft. A couple of years ago, their vendors were selling machines based on two different Pocket PC operating systems. One had an improved version of Reader built it; it could handle purchased books. The older version had an older version of Reader that couldn't be used for such books. Microsoft said it would release an updated Reader for the older systems in a few months. I bought one of those units. About six months later, word got out that MS was not going to release an updated Reader for older units. The press releases that had detailed their (now changed) plans were no longer available on the MS site. So if Dish is dumping on customers by changing its mind, it's not the only one.

Once someone steps forward with a smoking-gun transcript of a chat, I hope Dish will offer to swap disgruntled subs' equipment for new stuff that supports NBR. Sometimes it makes no sense to write software for dead-end hardware, but a promise made is a debt unpaid.

 

[carload]

I am stumped on this reply. Any ideas?

Unless DISHwire is defined somewhere, it can mean anything they want it to. And it sounds like Dish believes it should rhyme with USB.

 

[gpflepsen]

Concerning the USB ports... It would be nice to have a CPU based program controlling the DVRs via an USB port. Imagine the possibilities.

Picture this, install an USB patch cable between your computer and DVR. Download from E* a control program to que any and all recordings. It could seamlessly integrate with a data provider like titantv.com.

Sorry, I'm just trying to figure out how to automate the OTA recording of the 921. Never mind.

 

[NightRyder]

Scott, you need a third part involved to translate to Charlie (like Mark Jackson at E*). While Charlie is certainly an intelligent fellow I've never met a CEO that I would want discussing technical specifics. Most are very BIG picture people (as they should be) and even when you think they are on the same page, they usually aren't. Just my 2 cents.



NightRyder

 

[Grandpa J]

I will note this one more time then stop.

Rather than law suits governmental units have power and departments that handle false or misleading claims by public companies. A call/letter from a Senator or Congressperson also gets a lot of attention too. The Senators/Congresspeople who just passed the SHIVA extention could get E* attention. If people who live in AZ contacted Senator JM and he or his staff made a call I'm sure we would all see real quick action by Dish.

 

[keith]

It appears to me that he is seeing what information is available to someone where attorneys can get involved.

I believe it's called the "discovery" phase.

Let's face it, Dish / Charlie hold all the cards and we might get a few crumbs thrown our way, or not. Are there any promises of NBR in writing? Any promises on Charlie Chat? I don't think you will find any legally binding commitments on Charlie Chat.

921 Dishwire (firewire or USB or however) archiving is another issue, and Dish still have that feature listed on their web site, and it still doesn't work. That is fraud, plain and simple.

The lawyers settlement and $0.50 will get you a bag of chips.

It would be terrific if Dish would make a commitment to have all the features working before they sell a product, and no more "future software update" bait and switch. Even if they are sincere, when things go sour they end up with unhappy customers and that's not smart is it Charlie? I'm still hot over the 811 POS and that emotion would be times 10 if I had spent $1000 on a 921.

Anyway, all this stuff will be obsolete in a few years so it is in Dish's best interests to give us a peek under the tent and let us know how we will be transitioned to mpeg4. By the time you guys get NBR on the 921, they will be turning off mpeg2 HD and you will have a nice 921 boat anchor.