For those who would like to Track AMC14
- Thread starter goaliebob99
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I'd be happy with a 'we're going to give this a go' at least, or something that says they're making the attempt. Instead they basically said they think they can do it, not that they would.
We'll wake up some day in the future and either it'll be crashing into the ocean or where it's supposed to be probably.
We'll wake up some day in the future and either it'll be crashing into the ocean or where it's supposed to be probably.
updates on AMC-14
Looks like we should find out more about future of AMC-14 in next 2-3 weeks.
Proton Upper-Stage Failure Creates Tough Choices for Companies
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Proton Upper-Stage Failure Creates Tough Choices for Companies
By Peter B. De Selding, Paris/Simon Saradzhyan, Moscow
A Khrunichev official said the company is aware that Proton's recent performance is raising concerns among customers. He said Khrunichev intends to "sort out things" at KBKhM. The official said that despite the February 2007 government decree that gave Khrunichev full authority over Proton contractors, it was not until this year that the reorganization was completed.
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Looks like we should find out more about future of AMC-14 in next 2-3 weeks.
Proton Upper-Stage Failure Creates Tough Choices for Companies
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Proton Upper-Stage Failure Creates Tough Choices for Companies
By Peter B. De Selding, Paris/Simon Saradzhyan, Moscow
The owners of the AMC-14 telecommunications satellite that was placed into a bad orbit March 15 during the launch of a Proton-M rocket are likely to decide by early April a strategy for getting the spacecraft to its intended orbital slot. The choices include sending the spacecraft around the Moon for a gravity-assist maneuver or raising it directly into its intended slot in geostationary orbit, according to SES of Luxembourg, which owns the satellite, and other industry officials.
In either case, officials said, the satellite will need to use so much of its onboard fuel that its expected 15-year service life is likely to be cut substantially. The satellite is insured for about $192 million, officials said.
SES has leased the entire satellite to U.S. satellite-television provider EchoStar of Littleton, Colo., for the life of the satellite, giving the Lockheed Martin-built satellite an especially important place in SES's future revenue plans.
AMC-14 has been left in an orbit with an apogee of nearly 28,000 kilometers and a perigee of some 6,250 kilometers following the unexplained premature shutdown of the Proton's Breeze-M upper stage during the second of a planned three ignitions. The Russian space agency, Roskosmos, announced following the launch that the Breeze-M stage shut down 32 minutes into its second burn, which is designed to last for 34 minutes and 26 seconds.
For the AMC-14 launch, the Breeze M was supposed to have performed a third burn, to last for six minutes and 10 seconds, before releasing the AMC-14 satellite into its planned orbit with a nearly 36,000-kilometer apogee and a perigee of 6,250 kilometers.
The mishap is the second Breeze-M failure in 25 months and the third overall for the commercial Proton-M rocket, whose sales are managed by International Launch Services (ILS) of McLean, Va. ILS officials had said they expected to perform six or seven commercial launches in 2008, which was expected to reflect the rebound in the commercial-satellite market.
Next up for ILS is the launch of a satellite for mobile satellite services operator Inmarsat of London, which only weeks earlier had canceled a contract for a 2009 Atlas 5 rocket launch with Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services in favor of the earlier Proton-M date. Inmarsat had been counting on a late-April launch.
Inmarsat Chief Executive Andy Sukawaty said March 18 that he remained optimistic that Proton will return to flight in short order, and that the Inmarsat 4 F3 satellite will be in orbit well before the end of the year.
Following a similar Breeze-M failure in February 2006, which placed the Arabsat 4A satellite in a useless orbit, a Russian government commission concluded that the problem was an unidentified foreign object that compromised the Breeze-M's performance. The Arabsat consortium of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, after considering a lunar gravity-assist maneuver to put the satellite where it belonged, ultimately concluded that it was not worth the effort. Arabsat 4A subsequently was guided into the atmosphere and destroyed during re-entry.
Inmarsat Chief Technical Officer Gene Jilg said in a March 17 interview that the company has little choice but to wait for the conclusions of the Russian government commission investigating the failure. Jilg said Inmarsat and its insurers will need to be fully reassured that Proton manufacturers have understood the problem before agreeing to put Inmarsat's satellite on the next commercial Proton flight.
Returning to its original plan of an Atlas 5 launch is no longer an option. That mid-2009 launch slot has since been sold to the U.S. Air Force, Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services President Dave Markham said. The earliest available Atlas 5 date is now 2010, Markham said.
Proton's prime contractor, Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center of Moscow, in 2007 was given full control of Proton's component builders, including the Isayev Design Bureau of Chemical Machine-Building (KBKhM), which builds the Breeze-M motor in question.
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I've read through most all of these posts and I haven't clicked on any of the links yet (I'm so excited). I'll check it out now and let you know the REAL scoop. Oh, and I don't know jack about orbital inclinations or apogees or geosychronistic orbits. But I'll come back with a definitive sounding answer of what is really going on with this poor bird and help set everyone straight. I'll try to say it in a snobby, condescending way too. (not accusing anyone...being switzerland on this one)
I have done my analysis, and here is what I decree on this matter:
The owners of the AMC-14 telecommunications satellite that was placed into a bad orbit March 15 during the launch of a Proton-M rocket are likely to decide by early April a strategy for getting the spacecraft to its intended orbital slot. The choices include sending the spacecraft around the Moon for a gravity-assist maneuver or raising it directly into its intended slot in geostationary orbit, according to SES of Luxembourg, which owns the satellite, and other industry officials.
In either case, officials said, the satellite will need to use so much of its onboard fuel that its expected 15-year service life is likely to be cut substantially. The satellite is insured for about $192 million, officials said.
SES has leased the entire satellite to U.S. satellite-television provider EchoStar of Littleton, Colo., for the life of the satellite, giving the Lockheed Martin-built satellite an especially important place in SES's future revenue plans.
AMC-14 has been left in an orbit with an apogee of nearly 28,000 kilometers and a perigee of some 6,250 kilometers following the unexplained premature shutdown of the Proton's Breeze-M upper stage during the second of a planned three ignitions. The Russian space agency, Roskosmos, announced following the launch that the Breeze-M stage shut down 32 minutes into its second burn, which is designed to last for 34 minutes and 26 seconds.
For the AMC-14 launch, the Breeze M was supposed to have performed a third burn, to last for six minutes and 10 seconds, before releasing the AMC-14 satellite into its planned orbit with a nearly 36,000-kilometer apogee and a perigee of 6,250 kilometers.
The mishap is the second Breeze-M failure in 25 months and the third overall for the commercial Proton-M rocket, whose sales are managed by International Launch Services (ILS) of McLean, Va. ILS officials had said they expected to perform six or seven commercial launches in 2008, which was expected to reflect the rebound in the commercial-satellite market.
Next up for ILS is the launch of a satellite for mobile satellite services operator Inmarsat of London, which only weeks earlier had canceled a contract for a 2009 Atlas 5 rocket launch with Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services in favor of the earlier Proton-M date. Inmarsat had been counting on a late-April launch.
Inmarsat Chief Executive Andy Sukawaty said March 18 that he remained optimistic that Proton will return to flight in short order, and that the Inmarsat 4 F3 satellite will be in orbit well before the end of the year.
Following a similar Breeze-M failure in February 2006, which placed the Arabsat 4A satellite in a useless orbit, a Russian government commission concluded that the problem was an unidentified foreign object that compromised the Breeze-M's performance. The Arabsat consortium of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, after considering a lunar gravity-assist maneuver to put the satellite where it belonged, ultimately concluded that it was not worth the effort. Arabsat 4A subsequently was guided into the atmosphere and destroyed during re-entry.
Inmarsat Chief Technical Officer Gene Jilg said in a March 17 interview that the company has little choice but to wait for the conclusions of the Russian government commission investigating the failure. Jilg said Inmarsat and its insurers will need to be fully reassured that Proton manufacturers have understood the problem before agreeing to put Inmarsat's satellite on the next commercial Proton flight.
Returning to its original plan of an Atlas 5 launch is no longer an option. That mid-2009 launch slot has since been sold to the U.S. Air Force, Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services President Dave Markham said. The earliest available Atlas 5 date is now 2010, Markham said.
Proton's prime contractor, Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center of Moscow, in 2007 was given full control of Proton's component builders, including the Isayev Design Bureau of Chemical Machine-Building (KBKhM), which builds the Breeze-M motor in question.
A Khrunichev official said the company is aware that Proton's recent performance is raising concerns among customers. He said Khrunichev intends to "sort out things" at KBKhM. The official said that despite the February 2007 government decree that gave Khrunichev full authority over Proton contractors, it was not until this year that the reorganization was completed.
I see that Comrad used his mental telepathy and typed down my thoughts before I could. Darn you Comrad.
The owners of the AMC-14 telecommunications satellite that was placed into a bad orbit March 15 during the launch of a Proton-M rocket are likely to decide by early April a strategy for getting the spacecraft to its intended orbital slot. The choices include sending the spacecraft around the Moon for a gravity-assist maneuver or raising it directly into its intended slot in geostationary orbit, according to SES of Luxembourg, which owns the satellite, and other industry officials.
In either case, officials said, the satellite will need to use so much of its onboard fuel that its expected 15-year service life is likely to be cut substantially. The satellite is insured for about $192 million, officials said.
SES has leased the entire satellite to U.S. satellite-television provider EchoStar of Littleton, Colo., for the life of the satellite, giving the Lockheed Martin-built satellite an especially important place in SES's future revenue plans.
AMC-14 has been left in an orbit with an apogee of nearly 28,000 kilometers and a perigee of some 6,250 kilometers following the unexplained premature shutdown of the Proton's Breeze-M upper stage during the second of a planned three ignitions. The Russian space agency, Roskosmos, announced following the launch that the Breeze-M stage shut down 32 minutes into its second burn, which is designed to last for 34 minutes and 26 seconds.
For the AMC-14 launch, the Breeze M was supposed to have performed a third burn, to last for six minutes and 10 seconds, before releasing the AMC-14 satellite into its planned orbit with a nearly 36,000-kilometer apogee and a perigee of 6,250 kilometers.
The mishap is the second Breeze-M failure in 25 months and the third overall for the commercial Proton-M rocket, whose sales are managed by International Launch Services (ILS) of McLean, Va. ILS officials had said they expected to perform six or seven commercial launches in 2008, which was expected to reflect the rebound in the commercial-satellite market.
Next up for ILS is the launch of a satellite for mobile satellite services operator Inmarsat of London, which only weeks earlier had canceled a contract for a 2009 Atlas 5 rocket launch with Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services in favor of the earlier Proton-M date. Inmarsat had been counting on a late-April launch.
Inmarsat Chief Executive Andy Sukawaty said March 18 that he remained optimistic that Proton will return to flight in short order, and that the Inmarsat 4 F3 satellite will be in orbit well before the end of the year.
Following a similar Breeze-M failure in February 2006, which placed the Arabsat 4A satellite in a useless orbit, a Russian government commission concluded that the problem was an unidentified foreign object that compromised the Breeze-M's performance. The Arabsat consortium of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, after considering a lunar gravity-assist maneuver to put the satellite where it belonged, ultimately concluded that it was not worth the effort. Arabsat 4A subsequently was guided into the atmosphere and destroyed during re-entry.
Inmarsat Chief Technical Officer Gene Jilg said in a March 17 interview that the company has little choice but to wait for the conclusions of the Russian government commission investigating the failure. Jilg said Inmarsat and its insurers will need to be fully reassured that Proton manufacturers have understood the problem before agreeing to put Inmarsat's satellite on the next commercial Proton flight.
Returning to its original plan of an Atlas 5 launch is no longer an option. That mid-2009 launch slot has since been sold to the U.S. Air Force, Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services President Dave Markham said. The earliest available Atlas 5 date is now 2010, Markham said.
Proton's prime contractor, Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center of Moscow, in 2007 was given full control of Proton's component builders, including the Isayev Design Bureau of Chemical Machine-Building (KBKhM), which builds the Breeze-M motor in question.
A Khrunichev official said the company is aware that Proton's recent performance is raising concerns among customers. He said Khrunichev intends to "sort out things" at KBKhM. The official said that despite the February 2007 government decree that gave Khrunichev full authority over Proton contractors, it was not until this year that the reorganization was completed.
I see that Comrad used his mental telepathy and typed down my thoughts before I could. Darn you Comrad.
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Interesting that this thread was so active a couple of days ago, then it seemed to stop on a dime. I found many of the exchanges very helpful and instructive, given my total lack of knowledge in the area of earth orbits, until AMC-14 went awry, and the topc sudenly became very interesting to me.
I have one question for anyone who knows the answer, and is willing to share that knowledge - I see that the two line orbit data from which it appears that the orbits are displayed, has not been updated since yesterday morning (Tuesday, 3/25). I assumed at first that this data is updated periodically, perhaps daily, but that apparently isn't the case. Is there any established time frame for the release of the oribt data. and what is the source?
I have one question for anyone who knows the answer, and is willing to share that knowledge - I see that the two line orbit data from which it appears that the orbits are displayed, has not been updated since yesterday morning (Tuesday, 3/25). I assumed at first that this data is updated periodically, perhaps daily, but that apparently isn't the case. Is there any established time frame for the release of the oribt data. and what is the source?
I think Celestrak is a common place for most of us when it comes to getting TLEs. I have no idea how they get them though.
By the sounds of it we won't hear much until this upcoming month.
By the sounds of it we won't hear much until this upcoming month.
"Is there any established time frame for the release of the oribt data. and what is the source?" - nope. We are regular public, not in charge like NORAD or other agencies.
NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) collects the data from various organizations/sources (both Classifed and Unclassified). The TLEs for Unclassifed Satellites are available to the public through Space-Track - Login
Celestrak and other personal websites usually collect them through a daily feed from spacetrack or similar sources. Update rates very...If the satellite is in a stable orbit and they arent doing any maneuvers (ie burning the onboard rockets to change orbits) then the TLEs are good enough for a long time (weeks). The lower the orbit, the more suspectible to atmospheric drag so that can affect things. AMC-14 is in a stable (enough) orbit for TLE's to remain accurate for a long time, until they do the next burn. A TLE can't model a burn (nor during a burn), so you'll have to wait until you see a TLE with completely differerent orbit.
I havent looked at what people are talking about right now, but here's what SpaceTrack has as of right now
AMC-14
1 32708U 08011A 08085.39217513 -.00000146 00000-0 00000+0 0 95
2 32708 048.9813 168.5260 7087733 358.2851 013.7283 02.25662063 253
Celestrak and other personal websites usually collect them through a daily feed from spacetrack or similar sources. Update rates very...If the satellite is in a stable orbit and they arent doing any maneuvers (ie burning the onboard rockets to change orbits) then the TLEs are good enough for a long time (weeks). The lower the orbit, the more suspectible to atmospheric drag so that can affect things. AMC-14 is in a stable (enough) orbit for TLE's to remain accurate for a long time, until they do the next burn. A TLE can't model a burn (nor during a burn), so you'll have to wait until you see a TLE with completely differerent orbit.
I havent looked at what people are talking about right now, but here's what SpaceTrack has as of right now
AMC-14
1 32708U 08011A 08085.39217513 -.00000146 00000-0 00000+0 0 95
2 32708 048.9813 168.5260 7087733 358.2851 013.7283 02.25662063 253
ps...People have also mentioned Heavan's Above as a good website Heavens-Above Home Page
and I'd encourage people that want to "See" a satellite in orbit to enter their location and use the 10 Day Predictions Link on their website to see when some of the "brighter" satellites will be flying above their house at night...Several appear as a bright star cruising across the sky (crosses the sky in 5-10 minutes). The SpaceStation (ISS) is about to fly right over our house in California at Magnitude -2.5 Brightness (because the sun is shining on it, but it's dark here)...pretty bright (- is better) and my kids want to 'wave' at the astronauts in it
and I'd encourage people that want to "See" a satellite in orbit to enter their location and use the 10 Day Predictions Link on their website to see when some of the "brighter" satellites will be flying above their house at night...Several appear as a bright star cruising across the sky (crosses the sky in 5-10 minutes). The SpaceStation (ISS) is about to fly right over our house in California at Magnitude -2.5 Brightness (because the sun is shining on it, but it's dark here)...pretty bright (- is better) and my kids want to 'wave' at the astronauts in it
Thanks for the helpful response. It seems reasonable to conclude that any burn, or other change in the orbit of a given satellite would require an update of the orbit data to NORAD, and that we would see any significant change in orbit of AMC-14 within a day or two via Heavens-Above and others.
ps...People have also mentioned Heavan's Above as a good website Heavens-Above Home Page
and I'd encourage people that want to "See" a satellite in orbit to enter their location and use the 10 Day Predictions Link on their website to see when some of the "brighter" satellites will be flying above their house at night...Several appear as a bright star cruising across the sky (crosses the sky in 5-10 minutes). The SpaceStation (ISS) is about to fly right over our house in California at Magnitude -2.5 Brightness (because the sun is shining on it, but it's dark here)...pretty bright (- is better) and my kids want to 'wave' at the astronauts in it
That's a great suggestion. I have a 7 year old grandson who is already interested in astronomy, with his own telescope. Tracking and watching satellites will be great fun for us.
Come on Rocket Scientist out here.. Get out your slide rules and tell us what is happening with this bird. Somebody somewhere has to have the inside scoop on this. Are they trying to move it. Or is is just drifting aimlessly in that horrible orbit?
It's in a controlled/stable orbit (but obviously not where it's useful as a commsat), and they are just letting it hang out their while they figure out what to do.
They've got to figure out alot of things before they decide to try to salvage part of the original mission or scrap it. Since it's not what you'd call an emergency (either satellite health or critical need), they're not going to rush it and we'll just have to wait and see
They've got to figure out alot of things before they decide to try to salvage part of the original mission or scrap it. Since it's not what you'd call an emergency (either satellite health or critical need), they're not going to rush it and we'll just have to wait and see
Yeah, you can't exactly send the satellite towards the moon for a gravity assist and then change your mind. They need to be very sure of their plans before anything starts to happen.
ps...People have also mentioned Heavan's Above as a good website Heavens-Above Home Page
and I'd encourage people that want to "See" a satellite in orbit to enter their location and use the 10 Day Predictions Link on their website to see when some of the "brighter" satellites will be flying above their house at night...Several appear as a bright star cruising across the sky (crosses the sky in 5-10 minutes). The SpaceStation (ISS) is about to fly right over our house in California at Magnitude -2.5 Brightness (because the sun is shining on it, but it's dark here)...pretty bright (- is better) and my kids want to 'wave' at the astronauts in it
Seconded. And if you're going to be in a remote area sometime (maybe you live in one), without any light pollution, enter that location and print out a list of sightings for that night. You'll be amazed how many satellites you can see in a dark area. When you get the listing for brighter than magnitude 4.5, there's a ton to see.
In a suburban area though, you can't even see all the ones that are under 3.5. At my house, you're lucky to see something with magnitude 3.0.
It's really fascinating if you're into it. If you've never sat outside at night on a reclining chair and watched satellites and "shooting stars", I highly recommend you do sometime.
Man, mega delay on HD coming off this Sat no mater what they do. First a few weeks of decision making, then the actual implementation, then the testing to make sure it worked. And even then, won't E* want to re-negotiate everything involved with the satellite owners since the time of life will have changed? Then even more testing by E* once they are on it. Can't see all that resolving itself anytime soon. Aren't we looking at a end of year time frame at best?
Sorry to sound negative. I'm crossing my fingers. I'm a Dish Network subscriber and have high hopes for this to work.
Sorry to sound negative. I'm crossing my fingers. I'm a Dish Network subscriber and have high hopes for this to work.
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