genie and internet connection questions

[dlleno]

DTV is upgrading me to Genie/WH. can anyone tell me what to expect for my install/upgrade coming up and if there are important choices to make, esp regarding the (new) internet connection, existing OTA set-up, and geniego?

I currently have two HR-24/500s and one HR-24/200. all have AM21s. All are standalone/no whole home. standard two-wire install, 6x8 multi-switch outside (mounted on the side of the house). Slimline 5. The OTA signal is split three ways to feed each of the AM 21s directly.

DTV is installing whole home, replacing one of the 24s with whatever Genie they have, and connecting the system to my network, which consists of a 20mb/s DSL modem plus a Netgear wireless router. here are my questions;

1. will the genie play well with the AM21s or will I have to give up the AM21 on that room? the AM21s bring in a couple of local channels that are otherwise not available.

2. I realize the 24/500 and 24/200 are functionally the same box from different mfg. but which one would you give up (the 200 or one of the 500s) for the Genie?

3. The internet connection puzzles me -- old school says to have them run coax to the location of my network equipment, and plug a powered DECA into an unused port on my wireless router. Is that still the better approach? I'm hearing of new Genie boxes with integrated WiFi, outboard WiFi radios (CCK), and that installers are loathe to run new wire, preferring the wireless install instead. Conversely, I am old school and loathe to rely on a wireless radio or a DTV receiver as a single point of failure. Thus, the coax/powered DECA still seems like a much better "single point of failure" to me. On that note, the genie itself will be in a room closest to my router - will the coax run from genie to the router, or from switch to router?

4. If I go with the wired DECA integration to my DSL network, can this be disconnected without disrupting WH operation?

5. I assume GenieGo's connection is coax, and thus it lives on the DTV network, correct? or is it Wireless? I ask because I don't want streaming traffic going across my router. I guess if I am outside of my home network and want to stream, then GenieGo has to stream across my router, and in this case, streaming rate depends on upload speed, not download speed, of my DSL system right?

6. a genie and two DVRs means 9 tuners (nice), which I assume means a SWM 16 switch. where will DTV install this (inside or outside) and what will become of the two coax cables that are now routed to each room from the existing 6x8 switch? whats behind my question is that if the single wire coax bandwidth is limited to 8 channels, then the implication is that more than one coax line has to go to each room? I'd really like to see a diagram of a 9 tuner setup -- from dish to switch to receivers to internet. anyone have such a thing?

 

[texasbrit]

Just FYI, the Geniego is an extra piece of hardware, are you sure it is on your work order?

 

[raoul5788]

Holy cow dlleno, you have been here over five years and this is your first post? Well then, to Satelliteguys!

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

DTV is upgrading me to Genie/WH. can anyone tell me what to expect for my install/upgrade coming up and if there are important choices to make, esp regarding the (new) internet connection, existing OTA set-up, and geniego?

I currently have two HR-24/500s and one HR-24/200. all have AM21s. All are standalone/no whole home. standard two-wire install, 6x8 multi-switch outside (mounted on the side of the house). Slimline 5. The OTA signal is split three ways to feed each of the AM 21s directly.

DTV is installing whole home, replacing one of the 24s with whatever Genie they have, and connecting the system to my network, which consists of a 20mb/s DSL modem plus a Netgear wireless router. here are my questions;

1. will the genie play well with the AM21s or will I have to give up the AM21 on that room? the AM21s bring in a couple of local channels that are otherwise not available.

2. I realize the 24/500 and 24/200 are functionally the same box from different mfg. but which one would you give up (the 200 or one of the 500s) for the Genie?

3. The internet connection puzzles me -- old school says to have them run coax to the location of my network equipment, and plug a powered DECA into an unused port on my wireless router. Is that still the better approach? I'm hearing of new Genie boxes with integrated WiFi, outboard WiFi radios (CCK), and that installers are loathe to run new wire, preferring the wireless install instead. Conversely, I am old school and loathe to rely on a wireless radio or a DTV receiver as a single point of failure. Thus, the coax/powered DECA still seems like a much better "single point of failure" to me. On that note, the genie itself will be in a room closest to my router - will the coax run from genie to the router, or from switch to router?

4. If I go with the wired DECA integration to my DSL network, can this be disconnected without disrupting WH operation?

5. I assume GenieGo's connection is coax, and thus it lives on the DTV network, correct? or is it Wireless? I ask because I don't want streaming traffic going across my router. I guess if I am outside of my home network and want to stream, then GenieGo has to stream across my router, and in this case, streaming rate depends on upload speed, not download speed, of my DSL system right?

6. a genie and two DVRs means 9 tuners (nice), which I assume means a SWM 16 switch. where will DTV install this (inside or outside) and what will become of the two coax cables that are now routed to each room from the existing 6x8 switch? whats behind my question is that if the single wire coax bandwidth is limited to 8 channels, then the implication is that more than one coax line has to go to each room? I'd really like to see a diagram of a 9 tuner setup -- from dish to switch to receivers to internet. anyone have such a thing?

Arite let me try to break this down...

0. Are you sure they are bringing out 1 genie to swap replace 1 hddvr combo, and not 1 genie and 2 clients? If so this will require a swm16 to be on the order which shouldnt be much of a problem to install since you have a 6x8 now, but Its important to know your order is correct before getting started with this.

1. While I do not have an AM21, I can tell you that you will be lucky if the tech even knows what that is. Outside of forums, while in the field, I can count the amount of am21s I have seen in 7years one one hand. Most people that get them are do it yourselfers. But to answer your question, Yes it does work with the genie. It no longer scans the antenna, but your current 24s didnt do that anyhow. There are several threads on the genie +21 on here, feel free to look around any or all of them with additional questions. The short answer is it will work fine.

2. Give up a 500, but thats just my personal opinion. I like the 100s the best, but again, its just a matter of opinion. I also think the Pace boxes (700) are top rated.

3. This is the complicated question. Technically internet is optional, the hardwired adapter is most definitely optional. If you are lucky enough to receive a 44, the internal deca is used primarily. which is wireless. So the installer has every right to tell you no if you ask about a hardwired (broadband Deca). Your best bet to get around this is to offer him a tip right up front. You are asking him to go out of his way to do additional labor that he is not required to do. He deserves to be compensated for it. A courtesy line can be billed at 45dollars, but since hardware would be installed on it, it can be comped. I would offer 25$ right off the bat for the line, (assuming it is a simple one to run) remember he has other jobs to complete for the day, and has no idea where his next job will be. While you deserve your own time and education from the installer, he deserves to be compensated for adding time to his day for you. Your next hurdle is hoping he has a broadband deca (hardwired) on his van. I know my HSP seems to not want to give these out since all the 44s have internal decas, and I get about 5 a week and use them about 3days into my week. then anyone at the end of the week is pretty much out of luck, unless I feel nice enough to fudge some serial number and make one out of some parts that "fell off the van".

All this being said, I agree with you, the hardwired version of a deca is most definitely your best and most reliable option for the install.

3b. Either. The coax "should" run from the router to the central splitter, but..... running it to a 2way behind the genie is just fine as well.

4. You are the 3rd custy to bring something like this up this week to me lol, why do you people want to disconnect anything that is installed??? lol, well to answer your question, yes.. it can, and WH will continue to operate fine, all the deca does is insert and internet signal into the coax network, and the receivers decode this. BUT, if you disconnect the internet you will need to set it up all over again later and repeat the network setup of each box, and wait the initial 24hours all over again for the internet feature to redownload to the boxes. Not to mention your kinda screwing the installer over by disconnecting it, since it will count against is returnpath matrix. Were not supposed to hook up any internet hardware unless there is an available internet connection on site. DTV Pings the boxes to make sure they respond, and if they dont, but our order says a deca was installed, then we get in trouble, and the 25$ tip you just gave your tech is probably going to make up the difference in the back charge your going to cause him by disconnecting his work. Im very sorry for my rant here, but sometimes a customer just needs to know that certain things really need to stay connected. Personally, and this may be mean, but if you told me you had intentions to occasionally disconnect your deca, and I was your installer onsite, I would refuse to install one for you, and educate you to use the internal deca of the genie yourself. Because you would be affecting my quarterly scorecard, and eventually my pay rate. I had a customer just the other day that usually shut down the surge protector his computer was plugged into and killed power to the router and modem, and my power inserter and deca all at the same time. Hes like ohhh I didnt know, I always like to shut everything off, I thought leaving it on could hurt it. .... Anyhow.....

5. Incorrect.... the Genie go is connected to your network via ethernet, then you install the software on your computer. This is usually a dropshipped order, and most techs dont install them. Ive worked with them, but never installed one out in the field. It will include all the instructions in a nice retail box to get you going.

6. Just noticed 6 was here. Which kinda answers my 0. The swm16 will replace your 6x8, and be installed in the same location wherever that is. As for the additional 3 lines, well they just kinda stay there unutilized. They dont get hooked up or anything. Im sure there are plenty of diagrams. In fact a google image search of "swm16 wiring diagram" brings up a great many. Here is a good one. http://i56.tinypic.com/s0zyb8.jpg. Your understanding is close but not quite accurate. The swm16 outputs two seperate swm ports, labeled swm1 and swm2. Each of these is what is limited to 8 channels. So.. your genie would hook up directly to swm1, the second line that is currently in the location of the genie (or any other second line for that matter) would become the dedicated power line (the power inserter will be installed here) and then only one of the two lines run to the other receivers will be connected to a 4way that is fed from swm2. Your Broadband deca would attach to this 4way as well, as internet and MRV frequencies are passed between swm1 and swm2 on the swm16 switch. If one of the second lines to a dvr that will not be in use can be rerouted towards your router.. that is the approach I would take.


I think this answers all of your questions, repost with whatever else you may need to know.

 

[dlleno]

Holy cow dlleno, you have been here over five years and this is your first post? Well then, to Satelliteguys!

thanks! yes I've spent a lot of time searching and reading over the last five years, and very little posting . my bad -- I should have introduced myself first lol.

 

[raoul5788]

Hey, no problem!

 

[dlleno]

Just FYI, the Geniego is an extra piece of hardware, are you sure it is on your work order?

its not on the work order, but they are sending it out separately; should be here this week. Good catch though--I had to call back to initiate that because otherwise that promise fell through the cracks...

 

[dlleno]

Arite let me try to break this down...

0. Are you sure they are bringing out 1 genie to swap replace 1 hddvr combo, and not 1 genie and 2 clients? If so this will require a swm16 to be on the order which shouldnt be much of a problem to install since you have a 6x8 now, but Its important to know your order is correct before getting started with this.

yes. good catch in fact that was their first offer to me (replace all HR24s with a genie and two clients). then I called up CR (retention) and got it straightened out. so yes, final config will be 1 genie, 2 HR-24s, and yes a swm16 is on the order I did check that.

1. While I do not have an AM21, I can tell you that you will be lucky if the tech even knows what that is. Outside of forums, while in the field, I can count the amount of am21s I have seen in 7years one one hand. Most people that get them are do it yourselfers. But to answer your question, Yes it does work with the genie. It no longer scans the antenna, but your current 24s didnt do that anyhow. There are several threads on the genie +21 on here, feel free to look around any or all of them with additional questions. The short answer is it will work fine.

good. so the only issue for me will be what to do with that extra power cord permanently attached to the AM21 that used to supply power to the receiver to which it was married. I guess that cord just becomes a safety hazard, as its live.

2. Give up a 500, but thats just my personal opinion. I like the 100s the best, but again, its just a matter of opinion. I also think the Pace boxes (700) are top rated.

good/thanks -- I've also read elsewhere that the 500s are more prone to issues streaming content via GenieGo, so I'll give up one of my 500s.

3. This is the complicated question. Technically internet is optional, the hardwired adapter is most definitely optional. If you are lucky enough to receive a 44, the internal deca is used primarily. which is wireless. So the installer has every right to tell you no if you ask about a hardwired (broadband Deca). Your best bet to get around this is to offer him a tip right up front. You are asking him to go out of his way to do additional labor that he is not required to do. He deserves to be compensated for it. A courtesy line can be billed at 45dollars, but since hardware would be installed on it, it can be comped. I would offer 25$ right off the bat for the line, (assuming it is a simple one to run) remember he has other jobs to complete for the day, and has no idea where his next job will be. While you deserve your own time and education from the installer, he deserves to be compensated for adding time to his day for you. Your next hurdle is hoping he has a broadband deca (hardwired) on his van. I know my HSP seems to not want to give these out since all the 44s have internal decas, and I get about 5 a week and use them about 3days into my week. then anyone at the end of the week is pretty much out of luck, unless I feel nice enough to fudge some serial number and make one out of some parts that "fell off the van".

All this being said, I agree with you, the hardwired version of a deca is most definitely your best and most reliable option for the install.

good to know. since my existing install is std two-wire dual tuner configs in three rooms, why not put the DECA in one of the rooms and run CAT5 from DECA to router? The RG6 is already there, so the install will be easy -- the only issue could be that a permanent CAT5 cable won't be there -- I'll have to string that up into the attic and back down to the router. for what its worth I have a Monday install

4. ...rant about disconnecting internet...

no worries; rant understood! my motivation here is to confirm that WH will work if the internet goes down for whatever reason, i.e. I change cables, DSL service is interrupted, I change ISPs, power goes out for an afternoon or longer, etc. I have no intention of disconnecting the internet connection -- after all I will have GenieGo hooked up too.

5. Incorrect.... the Genie go is connected to your network via ethernet, then you install the software on your computer. This is usually a dropshipped order, and most techs dont install them. Ive worked with them, but never installed one out in the field. It will include all the instructions in a nice retail box to get you going.

ok yes I confirmed that my GenieGo is being drop shipped. so GenieGo not live on the DTV RG6 network at all it lives on the eithernet portion. This means GenieGo and DECA should be plugged into separate ports on the same router, correct?

<very helpful explanation removed so that my reply is approved>

ah thanks now it makes sense. it looks like the 4way has to go out on the wall beside the sw16. So would this config work:

1. room 1: Genie via RG6#1 --> swm16 (swm1). DECA via RG6#2 --> 4way --> swm 16 (swm2)
2. room 2: HR-24 via RG#1 -->4way--> swm16 (swm2). power inserter via RG6#2 -->swm16 power
3. room 3: HR-24 via RG6#1 -->4way -->swm16 (swm2). RG6#2 unused.

primary motivations for the above are:

1. I'm already long on RG6 runs. my dish to switch is already close to 90 feet, and the furthest receiver is another 40. In order to get to the router I have to run yet another 40 feet from room 1. wouldn't it be best for such a run to be CAT5 instead of RG6?

2. The install would be much easier without running any additional RG6. question though: for the install I will have to run a CAT5 cable from router on the floor to room 1 where the DECA will be. is the installer likely to trust me that I will put permanent CAT5 cable through the attic, at a later date, to replace the temporary cable used for system test/setup?