GEOGRAPHY & THE MINI-BUD?

[MikeinBaja]

For the experts:

I'm probably going to do a 1.2M mini BUD experiment this summer and in reading a ton about the experiments of others, 1 casual observation stands out.

It seems that those on the west coast have had better success/results than those in the central or east coast. Could the simple fact that, say the 97 bird, is somewhat "closer" on the west coast with better elevation account for at least some of the difference?

I know there are a ton of variables between all of the experiments - but it would seem that not shooting clear across the country (and through all of the RF interferrence) might make a difference.

Plausible theory or all wet?

 

[1ADAM12]

Interesting observation

I know there are a ton of variables between all of the experiments - but it would seem that not shooting clear across the country (and through all of the RF interferrence) might make a difference.

Plausible theory or all wet?

You may have made a valid observation regarding terrestrial 4/6 Mhz microwave noise.
The terrain in California affords valley reception to be shielded from much point to point scatter. Some of the older commercial C Band (22M) where located in pockets of terrain.

 

[MikeinBaja]

You may have made a valid observation regarding terrestrial 4/6 Mhz microwave noise.
The terrain in California affords valley reception to be shielded from much point to point scatter. Some of the older commercial C Band (22M) where located in pockets of terrain.

Well, I guess we will find out. My LOS is straight over the ocean.

 

[MikeinBaja]

Interesting - I know that most here don't care to promote or endorse the whole mini-BUD concept or experiments, but I'm disappointed that this didn't key discussion on the potential geographic effects of signal issue.

Next time I'll pose my theoretical question like this framed around a 10'er so that maybe the question would be considered worthy for discussion.

 

[rv1pop]

hey, its the Father's Day weekend and the brains have it off!!!!!

 

[MikeinBaja]

Actually Pop, I think the youngsters have not yet discovered that it isn't the size of the stick - but the magic in the wand!

 

[Mr Tony]

Interesting - I know that most here don't care to promote or endorse the whole mini-BUD concept or experiments, but I'm disappointed that this didn't key discussion on the potential geographic effects of signal issue.

Next time I'll pose my theoretical question like this framed around a 10'er so that maybe the question would be considered worthy for discussion.

I dont understand why the hostility in the above. With it starting to get nice her in the northern states (where we have 4 seasons) folks take time off the board and enjoy the outdoors or go camping or to a cabin. Anywho alot of folks gave up on the C-Band on an undersized dish because sure we like to experiment with things. But after spending say 3 hours and all you got was 2 or 3 very strong transponders with programming that you didn't want it gets kinda old. Most folks who had used them upgraded to a C-Band dish of 6 foot or greater. Get way more signals on them

As for an answer it really all depends on the footprint. I've seen folks in the central part of the US get better results than say me here in Minnesota. Some folks will say they get "great" results but they are in the sweet spot of the satellites so they are going to see better results. Also the signal being put out helps greatly. I know when I aimed my dish at 91W I can lock CW, Univision and Word Network with good results. Of course all 3 bury the needle on the 6 footer
But I guess I got tired of trying to lock signals with an undersized dish only to have it either not work or worse lock at a 15-20 quality which isnt enough to keep it stable.

 

[Anole]

I dont understand why the hostility in the above.

Oh, I already gave him the 3rd degree over mini-BUDding in email, and razzed him mercilessly. -
He's probably feelin' a little raw around the edges.

I can't decide if I should drive down there with a bud and dump on his doorstep.
If I find a 6' perf, I'll save it for him!
That shouldn't spoil the view too bad.

Maybe I'll catch him when he comes up to buy a 1.2m from WSI-west, and shove a C2 in his pocket.
That should change his tune! -

 

[Mikhel]

Interesting - I know that most here don't care to promote or endorse the whole mini-BUD concept or experiments, but I'm disappointed that this didn't key discussion on the potential geographic effects of signal issue.

Next time I'll pose my theoretical question like this framed around a 10'er so that maybe the question would be considered worthy for discussion.

Mike, i'm also in baja , and i can tell you in here it's possible to get a lot of the strong transponders even on a 3ft offset dish, altough with a 4ft you get 5-10 extra Q points in those pesky transponders, enough to 'open up' with a 35-40Q those channels with a 'small' FEC (1/2, 2/3, even 3/4), 'bigger' FECs need more Q, at least a 50-60.

Satellites that were a success in baja using a 1.2ft dish were:
91ºW
95ºW
99ºW to some degree (we could get the PR Mux but it freezed a lot)
107ºW
113ºW
116ºW
121ºW <--- No Azteca SD/HD nor STO HD, but could get STO SD, Sorpresa channels and the 3780 transponder
125ºW we could get the religious channels, but i'm not sure about the disney tp since we didn't try it
135ºW Univisión was viewable but during the night experienced a lot of freezing.

Those tests we did at Rosarito, Ensenada (well... Ensenada it's the biggest county in the world so i'm being a bit general LOL = Ensenada City, Maneadero borough, San Quintín, and Eréndira, both 'boroughs' south of the main city, Ensenada).

We didn't try it at Tijuana, Tecate nor Mexicali... altough, in the California Gulf the guy i was helping to do his tests, told me he had almost the same success south of San Felipe.
The guy and his wife usually travel the Baja California peninsula in his motor home, so he wanted to know what he could get with that dish (the biggest one he can carry, so he every now and then he deploys a couple of 4ft motorized ku dishes, one for Ku and one dedicated for C).

As it has been said, i also think the fact that we're surrounded by rocky formations product of volcanic activity (a thing that can be watched when driving from Ensenada to Mexicali via the old highway, the one used for the Baja 1000miles off road race), in the highest parts of this highway you can see the intrusive dikes, and in some parts you can even see the batholith, that big rock that came to form the Baja peninsula traveling all the way south from the Sierra Nevada batholith), caracterized by it's quartz richness... so, in a way, it could help us all the way from the northern regions of California down to the southernmost regions of Baja california, to get satellite signals without the background noise produced by the big cities like LA, San Diego-Tijuana, Mexicali.

I mean... it's just a theory, even if it has been proven right by people from the San Pedro Martir observatory in the Sierra of San Pedro Martir, regarding light interference and electric noise on some of their equipment (a growing concern because the state of Baja California Sur was exchanging the light bulbs on the highway for more powerful ones, in the end i think they decided to use ecologic friendly lights = those that don't scatter light because scares the region's fauna and hurts the flora of the place).

Hope you're having a good father's day!

Mike... also in Baja

P.S.

Actually Pop, I think the youngsters have not yet discovered that it isn't the size of the stick - but the magic in the wand!

It also helps if the wand is bigger and you know how to work the magic... just saying LOL, since i know guys that have not been able to get most of the channels at both SatMex satellites and have the same model and size of the dish as i do and even are in the same region hehehe.

 

[ynnedibanez]

just a thought, has anyone here tried amplifying the signal on a mini-bud?

 

[KiddoMi]

just a thought, has anyone here tried amplifying the signal on a mini-bud?

Can you elaborate more on that issue?

 

[Corrado]

just a thought, has anyone here tried amplifying the signal on a mini-bud?

The most popular method to enhance the signal is the conical scalar.

 

[oldford]

Using a line amp to attempt to increase signal from a too-small dish won't work unless you are also using too-long cable.

GL, Eric

 

[Mikhel]

The most popular method to enhance the signal is the conical scalar.

But we wouldn't be amplifying the signal but merely catching more of the waves off the dish.

Also as oldford stated we can't use a line amplifier due to it's nature, it can only be used to amplify a signal on long runs of cable, but it also amplifies noise so the antidote can result being worse than the poison.

The only way I can think of "amplifying" the signal would be using high end LNBs, but then we would not be amplifying it per-se but using better instruments =P.

All in all, having a C.O.L.D. project it's a fun way of spending a weekend...

By the way, C.O.L.D. it's an acronym given by Joe and some other pretty cool guys who are doing tests on the US with C-Band on a little dish:

Cband
On a
Little
Dish

 

[avenger]

Very Interested

I am very interested on on this thread about using a small dish to obtain C band on a little dish (C.O.L.D). Can someone please enlight me on what exact equipment or hardware do I need to accomplish this. What I gather so far is that a conical scalar is needed, where can I get/buy one... What kind or type of LNB is needed... What is the minimum dish size used for this project or testing, I have a SuperDish and a Satellite AV 36" dish. I live about 30 miles north of New Orleans, Louisiana is either dish worthy of obtaining any signal for this project.

Of the two receivers that I own, a Fortec Lifetime Ultra, and a Viewsat Ultra, which is the best to use for this future project. Well that is enough questions for right now. Thanking You in advance.
avenger.

 

[outbackjack]

try galaxy marketing or sadoun they both have despcrips for mini bud but from my experience dont expect to much. a 6 footer like ICE has or bigger is needed for real c band. skip the conical scaler and design one that has been recommended to me. look up walrus1957 scaler. galaxy and sadoun have a 99cm dish that works well with ku and some c band. a separate ku and c band lnb will work best. the combined isnt much productive. and check the threads for a receiver depending if you want hd or atsc. but make sure it supports usals if you motorize.

 

[Mikhel]

I am very interested on on this thread about using a small dish to obtain C band on a little dish (C.O.L.D). Can someone please enlight me on what exact equipment or hardware do I need to accomplish this. What I gather so far is that a conical scalar is needed, where can I get/buy one... What kind or type of LNB is needed... What is the minimum dish size used for this project or testing, I have a SuperDish and a Satellite AV 36" dish. I live about 30 miles north of New Orleans, Louisiana is either dish worthy of obtaining any signal for this project.

Of the two receivers that I own, a Fortec Lifetime Ultra, and a Viewsat Ultra, which is the best to use for this future project. Well that is enough questions for right now. Thanking You in advance.
avenger.

The minimum would be a 4ft offset dish, altough there's been some limited success using a 3ft dish on strong sats (91ºW, 95ºW, 125ºW and from your location it could even be a few tp from 121ºW and 116ºW).

You'd need:
- A dish (go as big as you can in case you can't put a 6-8-10 ft dish);
- A conical scalar ring;
- A C band LNBF (i recommend using a BSC421 or a BSC422);
- A FTA with blindscan (Pansat, Fortec, Coolsat), viewsats in general are not pretty good;
- Time and a lot of patience, this 'game'/'hobbie' requieres as much patience as you can give.

If you want more info send me a PM so as not hijack Mike's thread =)

 

[Tron]

I am very interested on on this thread about using a small dish to obtain C band on a little dish (C.O.L.D). Can someone please enlight me on what exact equipment or hardware do I need to accomplish this. What I gather so far is that a conical scalar is needed, where can I get/buy one... What kind or type of LNB is needed... What is the minimum dish size used for this project or testing, I have a SuperDish and a Satellite AV 36" dish. I live about 30 miles north of New Orleans, Louisiana is either dish worthy of obtaining any signal for this project.

Of the two receivers that I own, a Fortec Lifetime Ultra, and a Viewsat Ultra, which is the best to use for this future project. Well that is enough questions for right now. Thanking You in advance.
avenger.

I'm in Metairie, and we have a couple of members in Slidell, so there are a few of us around here ...

The Superdish would never work as a MiniBUD, and I doubt you'd get much if anything on the 36". For a MiniBUD, you really want a 1.2 meter dish.

As for a receiver, I'd take the Fortec over a Viewsat any day.

 

[avenger]

I'm in Metairie, and we have a couple of members in Slidell, so there are a few of us around here ...

The Superdish would never work as a MiniBUD, and I doubt you'd get much if anything on the 36". For a MiniBUD, you really want a 1.2 meter dish.

As for a receiver, I'd take the Fortec over a Viewsat any day.

Thanks Mikhel and Tron; for the replies. Tron as you already noticed I am located in Slidell. I have been using the Satellite AV 36" for receiving some KU satellite channels, some of them are in the low 50% to as high as 70% quality signal. I will start looking for a bigger dish and a C band LNBF. Now that I am retired from the Rocket Factory at Michoud, I think that it is time to find a hobby, and this website seems to have alot to offer on what I want to do with some of my free time.
Thanks again to both of you.
avenger

 

[Tron]

Cool, you worked at Michoud Assembly Facility! I hope they find a way to keep it open given the new direction of the space program. That facility in New Orleans East employs a large number of people. It is a shame what's happening to our manned space program, but don't get me started on that ... By the way, NASA-TV (three standard definition channels and an occasional HD feed channel, which can get really interesting) is available on C-Band at 87W (AMC-3). The signal is probably strong enough for a good MiniBUD to receive. I am using a 6 foot prime focus dish and getting very good results recording coverage of the final Space Shuttle missions.