HD-DVD subsidy by MS

[navychop]

From the Digital Bits:

"...Microsoft

This might seem like a surprise pick, but everywhere we look behind-the-scenes in this high-definition format war, there we find Microsoft's handiwork. Few in the industry will actually come right out and say on the record that Microsoft is subsidizing Toshiba and the HD-DVD format, but off the record even many neutral observers lament it. Remember back in late 2005, when Toshiba and Sony met one last time to try to avoid a format war, but Toshiba broke off the discussions saying that their partners in the HD-DVD camp had already invested too much money in the format to walk away from it? Wanna guess who the chief partner was? And it should be no surprise that Microsoft's HD-DVD Evangelists are quick to report new "exclusives" coming to their format from CBS/Paramount (despite that studio's stated support for both HD formats) like episodes of Star Trek and South Park, given the fact that both series top the list of Xbox Live digital downloads for the 360. Someone on the Melrose lot has made a deal. Bottom line: Microsoft appears to be heavily subsidizing a format war that is good for no one... save perhaps Microsoft. Life was so much easier when you could just dislike them for Windows...."

and

"...As for Universal, you have to either love them or hate them for their tenacity in remaining the only major studio to exclusively support HD-DVD. Weren't they one of the last studios to jump on the DVD bandwagon too back in the day (anyone recall their DIVX support)? Anyway, what drives us most crazy about Universal is how long they've taken to deliver certain classic TV series and DVD special editions, how willing they are to junk up their special editions with features that are special only to a second grader, how often they double and even triple dip their titles, how consistently bad their QC is, and how often their good special editions disappear from store shelves after only a couple weeks... if you could ever even find them at all. Ugh...."

 

[JoeSp]

WoW!! So M$ is the one that really caused the roof to cave in on those negotiations and NOT SONY!! Who would've thunk!?!

 

[ocnier]

I think its more about trying to wrest prower away from Sony.

 

[JoeSp]

What power? The DVD format was Toshiba's. The VHS format wasn't Sony's. So what power? Even the BD format only has Sony as a primary. There are several other primarys along with Sony so Sony might speak for the BD camp but they do not own it as everyone thinks. So I ask again -- what power?

 

[John Kotches]

The DVD format was an 11th hour compromise and there was no 1 big patent winner in the format. Word on the street was that if not for Warren Leiberfarb there would have been a format war with DVD generation technology as well.

As far as subsidies go; I don't know if MS is subsidizing or not. I do know that Blu-ray titles are currently getting a pressing subsidy; but it wouldn't surprise me if both sides have some subsidies.

Cheers,

 

[JohnL]

The DVD format was an 11th hour compromise and there was no 1 big patent winner in the format. Word on the street was that if not for Warren Leiberfarb there would have been a format war with DVD generation technology as well.

As far as subsidies go; I don't know if MS is subsidizing or not. I do know that Blu-ray titles are currently getting a pressing subsidy; but it wouldn't surprise me if both sides have some subsidies.

Cheers,

John,

There was indeed a Format war at the beginning of CD Sized Movie DISC's. Circuit City along with a couple of Studios (Disney was one) had a competing DVD like format called the DIVX Disc.

DVD Players could NOT play DIVX discs. DIVX discs were a Rent to own format that required the player to plugged into a Standard Phone Line. Each DIVX Disc "SOLD" for 5 to 8 bucks but each Disc had a unique serial number. When you loaded a DIXV Disc the DIVX player would call in to authorized the Play period of 24 hours, after that you could no longer play the DIXV Disc unless you paid for another 24 hours or Purchased the permanent rights to the movie. If you didn't want to view the movie ever again you were encouraged to THROW IT OUT.

As I said a number of studios were DIVX only and the rest were DVD only. Consumers pretty much totally rejected DIVX although it hung around for at least a year possibly almost 2 years. This alone slowed DVD growth until DIVX dropped out of the market, even then it took quite a while for DVD to completely take over the VHS Movie Rental business.

John

 

[CochiseGuy]

What power?

The power of the Game Console Market.

M$FT is used to dominating whatever market it it in. The Xbox has been very successful, but hardly dominating the market. The strongest selling point the PS3 has going for it that it currently by far the least expensive way to have Blu-ray player. It costs much more than an Xbox 360, more than double the cost of the Wii, and there's currently very little in exclusive content for the PS3. If Blu-ray fails to win as the dominate next-gen movie format, the PS3 goes down with it, along with Sony's dominance in the game console market.

 

[JoeSp]

Cochise Guy, did you read any of these posts? This particular thread is about M$ pressuring Toshiba to hang the negotiations with Sony out to dry on the BD vs HD-DVD format. M$ did not want a BD format to succeed -- they wanted a format war -- and that has nothing to do with consoles-as you say- but with their internet business period.

M$'s work with VC-1 encoders is directed to provide downloads of HD product over the internet not to improve sales of a HD disc format to replace DVD on the market. In fact, M$ idea is to provide very low bit rates of around 5 to 7 for HD content and for you to be happy with that and no support for new HD audio codecs. Hince their 1/2 a HD-DVD drive for the XBOX360 - HD picture but no HD sound. Only costs $200 and if enough of you buy into this then you will not mind download HD at a reduced bitrate with no HD audio codecs to go along.

I personally will not rent from the internet for download so that I can watch something for 2 or 3 days and then lose the rights. This is one of the reasons I support BD. There is just too much bs coming from the HD-DVD camps: THD discs, Combo discs, 720p w/out HD audio on DVD-9 discs. I want one format, one type of discs w/multiple layers and right now the only one doing that is BD. I think the HD-DVD camp has lost its way.

 

[CochiseGuy]

Cochise Guy, did you read any of these posts? This particular thread is about M$ pressuring Toshiba to hang the negotiations with Sony out to dry on the BD vs HD-DVD format. M$ did not want a BD format to succeed -- they wanted a format war -- and that has nothing to do with consoles-as you say- but with their internet business period.

Um, yes, I have read the entire thread, thank you. Out of a total of 8 posts, yours is the first to say this has to do "with their internet business period". The OP quote from Digital Bits refers to M$FT promoting their "exclusives" for downloading from Xbox Live! That's but one part of it, and I'm sure M$FT would like to dominate in that market as well. But, that's but one part in the grand scheme of things.

I personally will not rent from the internet for download so that I can watch something for 2 or 3 days and then lose the rights.

Me neither. Besides the "temporary ownership" issues, I live in the boonies and satellite internet is my only option for broadband, and 7.5 GB of download per 30 days is all I get. But I can tell you the telco & cable internet companies are going to start kicking & screaming and start enforcing data limits too if downloading 30-50 GB high def movies becomes commonplace.
For the foreseeable future, optical disk formats will continue to dominate for watching movies.

Let me ask this: If it weren't for it's Blu-ray drive and the number movie releases available on Blu-ray, would you have purchased your PS3? Perhaps, but many would not. And that was my point: If Blu-ray format is not successful in dominating the high def optical disk format, how many folks are going to pay such a premium over the Wii and Xbox for so little exclusive features? Xbox & M$FT win again.

 

[JoeSp]

Oh yeah, I am a big DMC , GT, Rachet & Clank fan. If the BD was not in the PS3 then I would not of paid $600 for it period. However, since I have a HDTV and I do support BD then the PS3 was a no brainer for me. The fact that it is one of the better BD players out there and can hook-up to the internet was a very big plus and helped sell the little lady of my house.

 

[tawhite]

I also bought the PS3 for BD but have a big issue with the fact that it does not have an IR reader so it will not respond to my Harmony remote. Wouldn't you think that capability would have been included? Nothing against bluetooth but how many universal remotes have that capability?

 

[navychop]

None, I'll bet. Certainly a drawback for me.

 

[JoeSp]

I agree, IR would have been nice. But I will tell you that the BT remote works flawlessly and the PS3 responds faster with the BT remote then my Denon 3910 does with my Universal Automater.

 

[tawhite]

I'm sure the remote made by Sony for the PS3 made for sony works great but that is not the point. The whole idea is to use a universal remote instead of the 6 or so I would need to run all my components. I will probably pick one up as I hate using the game controller to play movies but still this is a real oversight for a machine that is being touted as a great BD player.

 

[shanewalker]

As to the OT...it's been widely discussed on AVS that Microsoft has 'subsidized' HD-DVD in numerous ways, most of the reason circling around VC-1 and their internet distribution system interests. These 'subsidies' include lots of above-and-beyond (and probably gratis) assistance, in both services and tools, to the production pipelines of HD-camp studios in their tackling of VC-1 encoding/mastering issues...underwriting the disc encoding, in other words. I'm all for robust developer support and have no qualms on priciple--where it bothered me was in the heavily diatribed "HD-DVD is cheaper to produce" comments that were flung about during those heady early months.

As to this later PS3 bluetooth remote thing. I'm disappointed there wasn't IR built in to the base unit as well...but I'd bet that there will be an add-on solution, probably a USB adapter, that will support IR remote control someday (hopefully soon). Whether this is a Sony product or 3rd party I'm not sure, but it'll come...

 

[John Kotches]

John,

I am absolutely not talking about DIVX. My post (going back a few weeks) had nothing to do with DIVX. Here's a decent article on what I was actually talking about.

There was a reason I mentioned Lieberfarb by name as he's the one that was doing most of the deal brokering between Toshiba and Sony/Philips....

John,

There was indeed a Format war at the beginning of CD Sized Movie DISC's. Circuit City along with a couple of Studios (Disney was one) had a competing DVD like format called the DIVX Disc.

DVD Players could NOT play DIVX discs. DIVX discs were a Rent to own format that required the player to plugged into a Standard Phone Line. Each DIVX Disc "SOLD" for 5 to 8 bucks but each Disc had a unique serial number. When you loaded a DIXV Disc the DIVX player would call in to authorized the Play period of 24 hours, after that you could no longer play the DIXV Disc unless you paid for another 24 hours or Purchased the permanent rights to the movie. If you didn't want to view the movie ever again you were encouraged to THROW IT OUT.

As I said a number of studios were DIVX only and the rest were DVD only. Consumers pretty much totally rejected DIVX although it hung around for at least a year possibly almost 2 years. This alone slowed DVD growth until DIVX dropped out of the market, even then it took quite a while for DVD to completely take over the VHS Movie Rental business.

John