HD Free For Life (reg $10)

[dvrexpander]

There are still commercials advertising HD FREE FOR LIFE for new customers showing around here. I was thinking the other day I wonder if I should call the # (I'm sure its not dish and it is some retailer) and inform them that they are false advertising or let the local station know that the ad is false advertising and to stop running it.

 

[Tampa8]

The name of the free HD promotion includes the words 'for life'. Though they advertised the no DVR fee back then, I don't recall it being advertised as free 'for life'.

I can't remember DVR's ever being free. PVR's however were free for the life of the unit. And when DISH ended the use of 501/508's they did give a credit for awhile to those people that had to get another receiver.

 

[BBCInc]

What was the excuse when they started charging fees on those 5xx DVRs?

in my case there wasn't a specific excuse given as I recall. Instead as I moved up in equipment (508 to 721, etc.) I had to be diligent to keep my no DVR fee status grandfathered (when they decided to sunset it it became a credit). With the Hopper they added the whole home fee as part of the DVR fee (now $12 total with $7 DVR fee and $5 WH fee). They extended my DVR fee credit for an additional 24 months shortly before it expired last year. When the DVR fee went up $2 this year the increase was to the WHF and the credit remained at $7.

So, in effect, I'm still getting the equivalent of a no-fee 508 even though I haven't had one on my account for years.

 

[david_jr]

No, it is a customer abuse game. Why should the cost go up after 2 years? Your installation and equipment are already in place and you have been paying on them for 2 years? The current characters in the game think it is better to try to steal customers away from other players than to try to hold on to their own. Which really costs them a ton of money since they have to pay for all the marketing and installs over and over again. Dish used to be cheap enough that the deals from Cable/DIRECTV were not that big a deal. $10-$15/month to switch was not really worth the hassle. But, now after years of huge price increases and the deals are $50/month well it is a different story.

Dish gave up on being the low price leader and just joined DIRECTV/Cable in the pricing game.

Is this really customer abuse? The reality is that providing TV has become very expensive. I hate that. Dish is an easy target because they are the one you pay every month, or DirecTv or your cable company. The reality is if they gave everyone $50 off a month forever they would be out of business in a few months if that. The current model of offering great discounts for new customers developed over time because they learned that if they lure someone in with discounts they will usually stay if they like the service. They of course take the chance that the customer will leave after 2 years, but the reality is a majority will stay longer. They are only making $5 per sub, how can they give everyone a $50 a month discount? I would love it, but they couldn't stay in business with that model. There are other ways to get TV, but once Hollywood gets enough people using the alternatives, the price will go up there too. You can count on that. We're all paying more for everything these days, but there are no concessions from Hollywood or the Sports Industry. The alternative is to cut back on what you get or cut the cord and I know you have done many of these things.

 

[dangue]

Is this really customer abuse? The reality is that providing TV has become very expensive. I hate that. Dish is an easy target because they are the one you pay every month, or DirecTv or your cable company. The reality is if they gave everyone $50 off a month forever they would be out of business in a few months if that. The current model of offering great discounts for new customers developed over time because they learned that if they lure someone in with discounts they will usually stay if they like the service. They of course take the chance that the customer will leave after 2 years, but the reality is a majority will stay longer. They are only making $5 per sub, how can they give everyone a $50 a month discount? I would love it, but they couldn't stay in business with that model. There are other ways to get TV, but once Hollywood gets enough people using the alternatives, the price will go up there too. You can count on that. We're all paying more for everything these days, but there are no concessions from Hollywood or the Sports Industry. The alternative is to cut back on what you get or cut the cord and I know you have done many of these things.

Exactly. Mike keeps on talking about Dish greed, but their margins per sub are slim. If they didn't have these fees, they'd be in the red. That's not greed, that's operating a business judiciously.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Exactly. Mike keeps on talking about Dish greed, but their margins per sub are slim. If they didn't have these fees, they'd be in the red. That's not greed, that's operating a business judiciously.

When I talk about greed , I am talking about the FEES that DISH charges and makes up to enhance their revenue. IN relation to the 501/721/921 pvrs they did not charge a dvr fee at all. Now the Vip receivers they did charge a dvr fee. There was no difference in the service provided other than Name based recording feature was introduced. Now some say the name based recording feature was worth the $5.00 dvr fee,then the &6.00 now the &7.00 dvr fee. The hopper does name based recording and prime time live feature, so the $10.00 dvr fee is now $12.00. The name based recording is standard with the Vip and Hopper receivers as well as ptat on the hopper series . Do you think that these features cost DISH more so they are justified in charging more? I do not. I think that these are like all the other FEES DISH has created because they CAN. Like the Tv 2 $5.00 fee that you could escape if you plugged in your phone line . The DVR fee that DISH charged per dvr receiver ,then rolled into the Additional receiver fees back in 2010 and now the hoppers are following the same path. Your first hopper is $12.00 and so is your second or third etc. These fees were not created in response to tv channel companies charging more for programming. They were created because they could and because they enhance their bottom lines. So to me that is greed. Especially when you consider that DISH bitches about how high the programmers are extorting more and more for carriage of their channels from local channels to ESPN/DISNEY. They scream unreasonable programming hikes and then turn around and do the same thing with raising their DISH FEES at the same TIME. So pot meet Kettle.

And as far as operating their company judiciously, if you want to create more profits and not grow your company, keep raising your FEES so you make your subs drop even more and more of your programming and cut out receivers in order to cut their costs. Like I said before , when they charged low fees and NO fees for the 501/721/921 pvrs they grew and expanded their sub base by 2 million subs quickly. As soon as they decided to join DIRECTV and Cable companies, that they mocked back then for charging dvr fees, the growth stopped and stagnated and they keep adding and losing the same number of subs and have stayed at the 13 - 14 million base. That is not thinking long term and growing your base of operations. Charging more and more FEES and hiking said FEES is thinking about taking all the money you can while you can, till the entire model collapses. Which the industry is well on its way to accomplishing now.

 

[dangue]

When I talk about greed , I am talking about the FEES that DISH charges and makes up to enhance their revenue. IN relation to the 501/721/921 pvrs they did not charge a dvr fee at all. Now the Vip receivers they did charge a dvr fee. There was no difference in the service provided other than Name based recording feature was introduced. Now some say the name based recording feature was worth the $5.00 dvr fee,then the &6.00 now the &7.00 dvr fee. The hopper does name based recording and prime time live feature, so the $10.00 dvr fee is now $12.00. The name based recording and ptat feature is standard with the Vip and Hopper receivers respectively. Do you think that these features cost DISH more so they are justified in charging more? I do not. I think that these are like all the other FEES DISH has created because they CAN. Like the Tv 2 $5.00 fee that you could escape if you plugged in your phone line . The DVR fee that DISH charged per dvr receiver ,then rolled into the Additional receiver fees back in 2010 and now the hoppers are following the same path. Your first hopper is $12.00 and so is your second or third etc. These fees were not created in response to tv channel companies charging more for programming. They were created because they could and because they enhance their bottom lines. So to me that is greed. Especially when you consider that DISH bitches about how high the programmers are extorting more and more for carriage of their channels from local channels to ESPN/DISNEY. They scream unreasonable programming hikes and then turn around and do the same thing with their DISH FEES at the same TIME. So pot meet Kettle.

Mike you're missing the point. You call it greed, yet their slim profit margins per sub per month say otherwise. If they didn't charge the fees they'd be in the red. Lop off $5 in fees or package price or whatever from everyone's bill and they are in the red. What part of that sounds like greed?

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[Bobby]

Let's look at different business models.

Model 1: Have fewer fees on extras and charge the entire subscriber base a little more for their service.

Model 2: Charge the power users extra fees for their extras and keep the normal, everyday, subscribers price a little lower than the competition.

Which makes more sense?

 

[MikeD-C05]

Mike you're missing the point. You call it greed, yet their slim profit margins per sub per month say otherwise. If they didn't charge the fees they'd be in the red. Lop off $5 in fees or package price or whatever from everyone's bill and they are in the red. What part of that sounds like greed?

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I don't really get where you think that the ever increasing FEES that DISH charges are keeping them from going in the red. Do you have some kind of inside information of how this works at DISH. Or are you just making excuses for them because you are a DISH apologist? Please re-read what I posted because I added more to your comments about DISH operating judiciously.

 

[CK SatGuy]

Dish's earnings report is coming up on the 21st. so we'll find out soon how much they're making, or if they're in the red, or close to being in the red.

 

[dangue]

I don't really get where you think that the ever increasing FEES that DISH charges are keeping them from going in the red. Do you have some kind of inside information of how this works at DISH. Or are you just making excuses for them because you are a DISH apologist?

I don't have the link, but there is a post in one of the many threads here with Dish's quarterly filings with the SEC that show that they make less that $5/month/per sub. So no, not an apologist, no insider information. Just public information. Dish's profit margins are below industry average, so it doesn't Jive with your greedy made up fee because they can characterization. The fees are there because they need to operate in the black to stay in business. I'm tired of arguing this. If you don't believe me, go read the quarterly filings and read it for yourself in black and white.

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[mike123abc]

Mike you're missing the point. You call it greed, yet their slim profit margins per sub per month say otherwise. If they didn't charge the fees they'd be in the red. Lop off $5 in fees or package price or whatever from everyone's bill and they are in the red. What part of that sounds like greed?

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It is the business model. If you read their quarterly/annual reports one of their biggest expenses is subscriber acquisition costs. The product from Dish/DIRECTV/Cable has become virtually the same over the years (most cable companies now have HD comparable, and some are using decent set top boxes). The fees and costs put on non new customers are there to make up for the costs of getting new ones. If they give someone $50 off they have to charge someone else to make up for it, more likely around $25 since they artificially have had to inflate the package price.

If a company were to just have $25/month cheaper package prices for everyone with no new sub discounts would they do better? Probably not since the consumer is so trained now to get the big deals, they do not care about 2 years down the line.

The problem I see long run for Dish/DIRECTV is that cable is wising up and using their broadband monopoly (in most areas unless you want 3mbit DSL) to outprice DBS with an internet/cable bundle. Pricing that stays lower even after the new sub discounts wear off. If they charge $50 for cable, but give you a $20 discount to bundle with broadband, cable costs a net of $30, DIRECTV/Dish cannot offer $30 service.

 

[Scherrman]

I had no problem with the $5 fee for side 2 of the dual tuner. It made sense because having a second receiver was $5 then and a dual tuner provided programming to 2 TVs just the same as 2 independent receivers does.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

While I don't like DISH's fees they are still better then what else is available to me.

We have 6 HDTV's in the house... for me to get a HD DVR for each TV in the house like I have now with my Hopper setups the cable company wants to charge me $17 per HD DVR. Thats $102 just for equipment fees. No thanks!

 

[Tampa8]

There is some "Because they can." It starts with the content providers and what they will pay production companies however, and from there trickles down to the carriers and to us. Does Disney have to demand the amount they do to stay in business?
As for DISH and fees, I say and have always said it is the bottom line that matters. If with the fees I still pay less or near the same as other providers are getting then the fees are simply part of the business model, not necessarily added just because. Take away some fees and you will be paying more somewhere else, not for the shear profit alone, but for them to stay in business.
There are different business models, for instance no contracts, "free" service calls etc.. from Cable. Great except for one thing, DISH has contracts and charges a fee for service calls, but is less expensive generally then Cable. So I guess if you are banking on many service calls (and maybe with cable you should) you would save with cable, but for most of us we will pay less with DISH and their fees.

Those who can least afford some kind of TV service will do the best with DISH ironically because of their fee structure. Rather than put the cost all into the packages, you can get whatever package you can afford, with one receiver, with no receiver fee, and pay the DVR fee. You can even avoid the DVR fee with DISH. (No DVR - or 211K) And lowest basic packages make it affordable for most anyone. At the other extreme those who want all the bells and whistles, will pay more, maybe more than with Direct TV. But that is the business model.
The point of that is, the fees themselves are not really making DISH expensive, it's their way to get the money needed to keep in business, and yes make a profit. They could simply up the package prices and lower or drop some fees to then have those who have one receiver help subsidize those who have several I guess. And that is exactly what Charter does, up to four rooms is $20 for DVR service, problem is one room is $20 too.

 

[mnevar]

I can't remember DVR's ever being free. PVR's however were free for the life of the unit. And when DISH ended the use of 501/508's they did give a credit for awhile to those people that had to get another receiver.

I had a 501 (still do, but not on the account). I paid the fee until I upgraded to HD.

 

[navychop]

We need to stop trying to connect the fee so tightly to the cost related or referred to in that fee. That's not how business works.

Dish may well charge more than cost plus reasonable profit for a Joey or an X, and that difference may cover a shortfall elsewhere. It is the business as a whole that matters.

Remember when Long Distance cost more, a significant charge per minute per distance "zone?" It subsidized local service, expanding that local service to people who might otherwise not have afforded it. Times change, costs go down and courts meddle.

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[Teehar]

Lol sirius radio same way. Crybabies can call and whine to get free stuff. Welcome to america the welfare state.

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I bet you've never took advantage of a sale,promotion,or any kind of deals in your life. If getting a better deal is considered welfare then we are all in trouble.

 

[bwexler]

Question, what is their actual cost of a Hopper/Hopper with Sling?
How long does the average Hopper last in the field before being replaced or upgraded?
Do the Hopper fees actually pay for the Hopper hardware durring their actual installed lifetime?
My guess, if the H cost $399. $12/month would require a 3 year payback.
I have 2 HWS but started with 2 H2K, which were each replaced at least once. So 6 boxes in less than 2 years with only a single $99 fee.
I hate these fees as much as any of you and just sent back my Joey as one of the cost cutting efforts I am looking to implement. Looking at dropping the $7 insurance fee. I also spent an hour comparing packages to determine what to cut. I would loose at least two of my regular chanels and one or two of my wife's channels. So no program cuts this week.

 

[bwexler]

Question, what is their actual cost of a Hopper/Hopper with Sling?
How long does the average Hopper last in the field before being replaced or upgraded?
Do the Hopper fees actually pay for the Hopper hardware durring their actual installed lifetime?
My guess, if the H cost $399. $12/month would require a 3 year payback.
I have 2 HWS but started with 2 H2K, which were each replaced at least once. So 6 boxes in less than 2 years with only a single $99 fee.
I hate these fees as much as any of you and just sent back my Joey as one of the cost cutting efforts I am looking to implement. Looking at dropping the $7 insurance fee. I also spent an hour comparing packages to determine what to cut. I would loose at least two of my regular chanels and one or two of my wife's channels. So no program cuts this week.