HD Picture Quality

[whatchel1]

real or not

This is my first post here....So, hi!
After quite a bit of research and much procrastination I too took the plunge and ordered a 722K HD DVR Receiver:

Initial impressions:

The movie channels, HBO, Skinemax, Showtime (in HD) look like they are supposed to look, sharp, detailed and most importantly HIGH DEF!!!!!

The local channels? Eh, WTF?????
My Wally-World OTA Antenna (which was my source for HD content up until today)
did a much better job of HD picture, AND most importantly everything was broadcast in what we'll call "WIDESCREEN FORMAT."

Up until today I had thought the very definition of High Definition programming had WideScreen broadcasts as a requisite for such a title....???? I, uh am at a loss for words:tux:

-My panel is a Panasonic 42X1 Plasma (720p) model
-Viewing distance is at 7.5 feet.
-722K does not have the MT2 OTA module installed...

I had thought HD meant HD, but now that I read more and more I find that HD really stands for "Hosed-Definitely!"

Anyway I checked ALL settings:
Menu---6----8------Offair----1080i and/or720p----16X9

*button (format) is at normal.

I have dully noted and taken into account the standard issues/PQ quality issues associated with the regular anomalies such as:
-Commercials shot in SD
-Source material not in HD to begin with
-Selective Bandwidth issues....

I don't understand WHY or HOW Channel 7 could broadcast OTA HD shows like All My Children, or The People's Court (for example) and those shows are shown with black bars on the left and the right when they are on Dish, yet with my OTA antenna they are widescreen, with zero picture degradation?

Say it ain't so!

I don't know if you are a real person or just here to tease us. But why haven't you gotten an OTA module for the OTA's. Also you list home as CA but not what area so it is possible that that E* doesn't even carry you locals in HD. As mentioned by others the shows you are talking about are SD to start with. You are a newbie so I'll cut you some slack. Where I live some of the local stations use stretch-o-vision of the SD which makes it look even worse. Your name JohnDillinger makes me wonder if you are just here to try and shoot down things?

 

[Breathing Borla]

Hey guys,

new member here.

thought I would make my first post here.

I recently noticed Dish PQ has been better as well. 61" samsung

I also tried to switch to comcast HD lately since they offered a deal I couldn't refuse. I had both services on at the same time after the comcast install.

I can't see how anyone can say that comcast PQ is as good or better than Dish. I nuked comcast and kept the dish. I had the new comcast box too (dcx-3400).

I did keep comcast for the phone and Internet though as I used to have DSL. I can say they got the Internet speed thing iced, 25 down 6 up

I will stay with dish..

 

[pendragon]

How can I judge the bitrate of a Dish signal I am receiving?

I'm sure they don't want you to know, so there is no direct way of monitoring this with just a Dish receiver. I use a R5000 to extract the transport stream, so it's easy for me, but unless you can find the file sizes for your PVR recordings, you're out of luck (I don't use a Dish PVR).

 

[Carl B]

The wife and I noted an improvement in Dish HD PQ last Saturday, particularly on the Fox News Channel. Sadly, that additional PQ sharpness and detail seem to have gone away during the week. We are watching a 52" Sony Z5100 and the sharpness observations were made at about 6 feet from the screen. Overall, Dish's HD PQ is pretty good and even better on their premium movie channels. However, the HD PQ does change from day to day, week to week, and month to month, even when you are viewing the same channel and even the same content at a different time.

Dish has historically catered to the "more channels" crowd at the expense of PQ (they can sell more subscriptions advertising more channels than they can advertising the best PQ). Perhaps now that many people have higher quality HDTVs and expect more in PQ, they are trying to not degrade PQ as much as that adds to their subscriber "churn". But, PQ will be secondary as long as they are dealing with a public that would rather hear music on an MP3 player or watch movies on their PC (i.e., the general public isn't willing to pay for quality anymore, they just want gadgets and capability).

 

[JohnDillinger]

Neither All My Children nor People's Court are broadcast in HD. They would be broadcast with bars on the side and that is why your 722K is displaying them that way. You can change the display by pressing the format button with will stretch the program out if that is the way you want to watch it. Dish is passing the program on the way they get it.

I understand what you are saying.
The comparisons in my first post illustrate my point:
My $30.00 Wal-Mart OTA antenna shows Channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13
ALL in Widescreen and in much better quality.
My Panasonic Plasma is set to *FULL* which is the default widescreen setting.

Thank you very much for the detailed answer, David. I appreciate it.

I don't know if you are a real person or just here to tease us. But why haven't you gotten an OTA module for the OTA's. Also you list home as CA but not what area so it is possible that that E* doesn't even carry you locals in HD. As mentioned by others the shows you are talking about are SD to start with. You are a newbie so I'll cut you some slack. Where I live some of the local stations use stretch-o-vision of the SD which makes it look even worse. Your name JohnDillinger makes me wonder if you are just here to try and shoot down things?

I'm as real Global Warming j/k
Yes, I'm real. I have done my dilligence, yes, the local channels reach from Los Angeles to my location...

I haven't purchased the OTA module because I just had the Dish service installed yesterday, and at that time I was too busy.
Are you saying that the MT2 OTA module will somehow fix these issues?

I just don't understand why they appear Widescreen AND HD on my Panasonic Plasma with my OTA tuner (mentioned in my first post) What does screen-name have to do with being real or not? You have Bambi here, a Sexy Warlock among other non-conventional names???

Anyway, I'm aware of what TV engineers do to standard programming to make it fit a 16X9 screen...but it doesn't answer my question.

Using those two shows has to be a joke post.

Thank you for the warm welcome, Sexy Warlock! I don't watch Paranormal State, so we might not be able to whip out the Ouija Board or the Codex Gigas, I'm afraid.:
Thank you Bambi, for the respectful greeting as well! FWIW, I mentioned those shows because
I have seen them in NATIVE widescreen format using an OTA antenna with my Plasma.

....And, I used to watch those shows with my mother before she died, so again, thanks.

 

[whatchel1]

I'm as real Global Warming j/k
Yes, I'm real. I have done my dilligence, yes, the local channels reach from Los Angeles to my location...

I haven't purchased the OTA module because I just had the Dish service installed yesterday, and at that time I was too busy.
Are you saying that the MT2 OTA module will somehow fix these issues?

I just don't understand why they appear Widescreen AND HD on my Panasonic Plasma with my OTA tuner (mentioned in my first post) What does screen-name have to do with being real or not? You have Bambi here, a Sexy Warlock among other non-conventional names???

Are you saying you live in the LA area?
The OTA module will just give you a choice of being able to record off sat or OTA. This way you can record 2 nets OTA & the other 2 OTA. When you are watching the locals off sat in the guide does it note them as HD? You may be on the SD version of the channel since you will get both from sat. Screen name has to do w/ you may have come here just to shoot things down. We sometimes have "trolls" show up to do just that.
All My Children will not be in HD until next year. http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/327937-_All_My_Children_To_Go_HD_In_2010.php People's Court isn't in HD no date has been set for them to go.

 

[JohnDillinger]

Are you saying you live in the LA area?
The OTA module will just give you a choice of being able to record off sat or OTA. This way you can record 2 nets OTA & the other 2 OTA. When you are watching the locals off sat in the guide does it note them as HD? You may be on the SD version of the channel since you will get both from sat. Screen name has to do w/ you may have come here just to shoot things down. We sometimes have "trolls" show up to do just that.

Thanks for the response.
I live within range of the LA channels. If I didn't I wouldn't have been able to get those channels I take it.
As I understood it, the OTA module allows two live OTA broadcasts to be watched on two different sets instead of one.

Yes, there are two channels listed for:
KABC
KTLA
KNBC and the list goes on. -ON the Dish Network.
I made sure the HD channel was on.

On the OTA antenna I had it setup to only view HD programming and deleted the SD channels. but there were SD and HD mixed together.

I didn't know you had people uh, *troll* your forum?
This is why I opened up my very first post in an intelligible and cohesive post (or so I thought)

 

[whatchel1]

A bit different than you think

Thanks for the response.
I live within range of the LA channels. If I didn't I wouldn't have been able to get those channels I take it.
As I understood it, the OTA module allows two live OTA broadcasts to be watched on two different sets instead of one.

Yes, there are two channels listed for:
KABC
KTLA
KNBC and the list goes on. -ON the Dish Network.
I made sure the HD channel was on.

On the OTA antenna I had it setup to only view HD programming and deleted the SD channels. but there were SD and HD mixed together.

I didn't know you had people uh, *troll* your forum?
This is why I opened up my very first post in an intelligible and cohesive post (or so I thought)

The OTA module allows you to receive the OTA channels from a TV antenna. You can record them in HD but you can't watch them on 2 different sets in HD (there is a way but not going to get into that yet). 1 will be in HD at the main TV set the other will be in SD at another location. Clarify what you mean by HD & SD mixed together. Yes we often have trolls show up. So sorry for thinking you might be one. These are the channels you should get in HD for locals off sat.

KABC (ABC 7)

KCBS (CBS 2)

KNBC (NBC 4)

KTTV (FOX 11)

KTLA (CW 5)

KCAL (9)

 

[JohnDillinger]

The OTA module allows you to receive the OTA channels from a TV antenna. You can record them in HD but you can't watch them on 2 different sets in HD (there is a way but not going to get into that yet). 1 will be in HD at the main TV set the other will be in SD at another location. Clarify what you mean by HD & SD mixed together. Yes we often have trolls show up. So sorry for thinking you might be one. These are the channels you should get in HD for locals off sat.

Well, I think I have great news while perusing the channel listings on screen

As I was looking through the various channels I came across:


Channel#'s:

# 6307......KCBS (CBS 2)

# 6308......KNBC (NBC 4)

# 6310......KTLA (CW 5)

# 6306......KABC (ABC 7)

# 6311......KCAL ( 9)

# 6309......KTTV (FOX 11)


These channels show Full HD, with everything in widescreen format!!!
I'm not sure if these are pay channels, but I did see a $5.99 fee for local channels

Here: DISH Network HD Local Channels Available For Los Angeles, California (LA)

I think the problem is solved, newbie bashing may commence!!!

 

[whatchel1]

Correct

Well, I think I have great news while perusing the channel listings on screen

As I was looking through the various channels I came across:


Channel#'s:

# 6307......KCBS (CBS 2)

# 6308......KNBC (NBC 4)

# 6310......KTLA (CW 5)

# 6306......KABC (ABC 7)

# 6311......KCAL ( 9)

# 6309......KTTV (FOX 11)


These channels show Full HD, with everything in widescreen format!!!
I'm not sure if these are pay channels, but I did see a $5.99 fee for local channels

Here: DISH Network HD Local Channels Available For Los Angeles, California (LA)

I think the problem is solved, newbie bashing may commence!!!

Those are you local HD channels and when you get an OTA tuner you can set them to map down next to the usual channel number.

 

[bthamilton]

I just switched to Dish about a month ago from Cox in the San Diego area. I've got to say that Dish's picture quality does not match what I used to have on Cox. The HD looks very compressed and varies as everyone has been describing in this thread. There are times when the PQ is good, but the HD quality in general is almost unacceptable in my opinion.

With that said, the reason I dropped Cox was the expense and the occasional, but consistent garbling and tiling...the dish HD PQ is so bad, that I'd almost trade the bad PQ for the tiling and garbling...

Overall, I'm a disappointed with Dish. The 722k is an awesome unit. However, I thought I was going to get superior PQ, but now sometimes have problems telling between SD and HD! I shouldn't be able to see compression pixels, blocks or mosquitoes or whatever you call them every time I watch tv.

I am watching on a 58" Panasonic Viera plasma via HDMI cable (obviously watching on such a big screen doesn't help with the PQ).

 

[JohnDillinger]

I just switched to Dish about a month ago from Cox in the San Diego area. I've got to say that Dish's picture quality does not match what I used to have on Cox. The HD looks very compressed and varies as everyone has been describing in this thread. There are times when the PQ is good, but the HD quality in general is almost unacceptable in my opinion.

With that said, the reason I dropped Cox was the expense and the occasional, but consistent garbling and tiling...the dish HD PQ is so bad, that I'd almost trade the bad PQ for the tiling and garbling...

Overall, I'm a disappointed with Dish. The 722k is an awesome unit. However, I thought I was going to get superior PQ, but now sometimes have problems telling between SD and HD! I shouldn't be able to see compression pixels, blocks or mosquitoes or whatever you call them every time I watch tv.

I am watching on a 58" Panasonic Viera plasma via HDMI cable (obviously watching on such a big screen doesn't help with the PQ).

I'm coming from DirecTV which purportedly has better HD PQ than Cox.
I have to tell you since my Dish installation (exactly one day ago) My HD picture is looking very sharp! Your Plasma has 16 inches on my Panny so I have to ask...How far away are you watching/how is your 722k connected?

Your set is rated much higher than mine, but your set is 1080p, right?
I feel bad your PQ is so bad. What kind of signal are you getting?
I think your installer may have fudged things up.

My installer was a 4 yr veteran, from Dish, not a subcontractor-these guys suck and generally go from job to job, rather than getting paid by the hour, and taking the time to do the job right.

 

[whatchel1]

Is your set 1080i setting?

I just switched to Dish about a month ago from Cox in the San Diego area. I've got to say that Dish's picture quality does not match what I used to have on Cox. The HD looks very compressed and varies as everyone has been describing in this thread. There are times when the PQ is good, but the HD quality in general is almost unacceptable in my opinion.

With that said, the reason I dropped Cox was the expense and the occasional, but consistent garbling and tiling...the dish HD PQ is so bad, that I'd almost trade the bad PQ for the tiling and garbling...

Overall, I'm a disappointed with Dish. The 722k is an awesome unit. However, I thought I was going to get superior PQ, but now sometimes have problems telling between SD and HD! I shouldn't be able to see compression pixels, blocks or mosquitoes or whatever you call them every time I watch tv.

I am watching on a 58" Panasonic Viera plasma via HDMI cable (obviously watching on such a big screen doesn't help with the PQ).

Is the output of the 722k been set to 1080i? menu 6-8 tv type what does it say? should be 1080i. If it is anything other than that it is set wrong. Hope this helps.

 

[redelephants]

This is the picture quality reduction I am noticing.

This other pic is from a michelin commercial, same channel fox news hd.

 

[Ronnie-]

Looks like overcompression

 

[sam_gordon]

What cables are you using to connect between your receiver and your TV?

HDMI, Component, Composite, Svideo, or RF?

 

[redelephants]

What cables are you using to connect between your receiver and your TV?

HDMI, Component, Composite, Svideo, or RF?

HDMI, however, viewing the same content via RF on distribution tv, i see the same problem. Whats interesting is how a few hours later viewing the same commercial I didn't see as much macroblocking. I just couldn't imagine if everyone saw this people would be up in arms demanding something be done. I just don't know what else could be the issue, only thing I haven't replaced was my wall barrel connector. My signal levels are alway pretty consitent around 60+. It is obviously making it to my HDD as I am able to view the macroblocking on recorded content. Could someone else look very hard, especially fox news channel and see if they can notice the macroblocking and mosquito noise.

 

[whatchel1]

all or certain channels only?

HDMI, however, viewing the same content via RF on distribution tv, i see the same problem. Whats interesting is how a few hours later viewing the same commercial I didn't see as much macroblocking. I just couldn't imagine if everyone saw this people would be up in arms demanding something be done. I just don't know what else could be the issue, only thing I haven't replaced was my wall barrel connector. My signal levels are alway pretty consitent around 60+. It is obviously making it to my HDD as I am able to view the macroblocking on recorded content. Could someone else look very hard, especially fox news channel and see if they can notice the macroblocking and mosquito noise.

Is this happening on all the channels, or just some of the channels? Is it only on say 129 or 110 or all the HD channels on all the sats? Since it is varying by time of day is it always the same time of day or is it after a certain time of day. I starting to think you may have an LNB problem that is strating to be a problem.

 

[redelephants]

Is this happening on all the channels, or just some of the channels? Is it only on say 129 or 110 or all the HD channels on all the sats? Since it is varying by time of day is it always the same time of day or is it after a certain time of day. I starting to think you may have an LNB problem that is strating to be a problem.

No, it happens on all of the HD channels on all SATs. When it happens my signal readings do not drop. My LNB are brand new 1 month old. It seems to vary day in and day out. Nothing consistent about it other than I can expect it to be a problem more than not.

 

[whatchel1]

What are you using again

No, it happens on all of the HD channels on all SATs. When it happens my signal readings do not drop. My LNB are brand new 1 month old. It seems to vary day in and day out. Nothing consistent about it other than I can expect it to be a problem more than not.

Now refresh my memory and tell me what equipment you are using and how it is hooked up. It may be something in the chain between the VIP DVR & the TV set that is causing the problem. Don't leave out the wiring between the equipment either include the brand and model of all of it. I just done' think that the signal is all that is causing the porlbem.