HDMI cheap cables

[tryinghard]

HDMI cheap cables

Since this is a tip “Theater Advice, Tips and Discussion” I have seen many fallen into the HDMI cable trap of buying big money HDMI cables in stores mostly after buying HD equipment, or someone listening to their expert friend, it’s sad !

Please keep this in mind when buying HDMI cables, not other types of cables such as component that is a different story there are not built too a “owned Spec” HDMI since link is not allowed try org HDMI


Any HDMI cable made by anyone must adhere to the HDMI “Spec” meaning a 3 ft cable at a cost of $3.00 will deliver the same video and audio quality as a $80 HDMI, take this to the bank !

When one is buying a more costly HDMI cable for is only for a better feel meaning quality of the casing the gold connector, etc. but that dose nothing to add to the quality of video or audio, I chose to pay approx $15 to $20 for a cable but I know that $3 HDMI cable will do just as well, but being a Electrical designer I like the quality of the outside casing, but don’t take my word on this, take CNET

CNET strongly recommends cheap HDMI cables widely available from online retailers instead of the expensive counterparts sold in your local electronics store. same here just search CNET on HDMI cables

 

[KAB]

That's why most of us have been buying from monoprice.com for some time.

 

[tryinghard]

That's why most of us have been buying from monoprice.com for some time.

“KAB”

“That's why most of us have been buying from monoprice.com for some time.”

I posted it because, there is still a lot of people who still buy into a better video and audio with HDMI cables that costing upward to $100, still a lot of people out there believing if it cost more it must be better, which is something I do generally believe in, but 3 years ago a friend of mine brought into the Best store salesmen bs line of you need this $130 cable to get all the bennies of HD, it took almost a fight with him to convince him, but after reading a few things off the net he brought one for $15, I reminded him don’t go cheap with component cables it’s a difference story.

So what I am saying KAB this post was not intended for people like you who know the difference, it’s intended for newbees, everybody is a newbee at something at sometime in their life : - )

 

[Ilya]

Test results

I posted this in another thread, but it might be a good idea to mention it here too.

Some time ago Gizmodo did testing of different HDMI cables including Monster and Monoprice. They posted very interesting results. Check it out:

The Truth About Monster Cable, Part 2 (Verdict: Cheap Cables Keep Up...Usually)

Judging from these results, I would have to reiterate my original position, that it's best to skimp at short distances, but you don't want to be caught with the wrong cable installed in your walls. Even with the projector, it might be smart to buy a $30 cable first and see if it works, but be prepared, when upgrading your gear, to upgrade the cable too. Does it have to be Monster? Hell no, but you might have to pay something close to a Monster-sized price.

The truth is, the bigger rip-off appears to be the $20 XtremeHD cable. It didn't perform as well as stuff one-fifth the price. (No wonder they don't sell a 10-meter cable.) I would say beware of mid-priced cable of dubious origin. Our dealings with Monoprice lead us to believe that at least they know what they're selling, even at such a tremendous discount.

 

[lakebum431]

Another vote for HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more! from me. Best place around.

 

[tryinghard]

I posted this in another thread, but it might be a good idea to mention it here too.

Some time ago Gizmodo did testing of different HDMI cables including Monster and Monoprice. They posted very interesting results. Check it out:

The Truth About Monster Cable, Part 2 (Verdict: Cheap Cables Keep Up...Usually)

Judging from these results, I would have to reiterate my original position, that it's best to skimp at short distances, but you don't want to be caught with the wrong cable installed in your walls. Even with the projector, it might be smart to buy a $30 cable first and see if it works, but be prepared, when upgrading your gear, to upgrade the cable too. Does it have to be Monster? Hell no, but you might have to pay something close to a Monster-sized price.

The truth is, the bigger rip-off appears to be the $20 XtremeHD cable. It didn't perform as well as stuff one-fifth the price. (No wonder they don't sell a 10-meter cable.) I would say beware of mid-priced cable of dubious origin. Our dealings with Monoprice lead us to believe that at least they know what they're selling, even at such a tremendous discount.

“Ilya”

Thanks for your feed back, I guess I should have put in the original post “ up too a length of cable,” here I was thinking about the general lengths of 3 to 6 ft, I would like to interject something here and believe me I am not coming down on Monoprice cables there are just as many on their side as Monster cables out here, but I want to take an issue with this test you linked at Gizmodo I have a problem with their conclusions, they state:

[What were our findings?
1) At short distances up to 6ft (2 meters), you can pretty much get away with any cable. Monoprice cables kicked ass at the 6 foot length that mostly everyone uses.
Not all cables are the same, however, and in truth, it's the medium-priced cables that may be the real rip-off.

2) At longer distances, cheaper cable tends to choke up. A 720p signal will make it, but even today's standard 1080p signal can fry out inside of a long cable that isn't built as well. If you are trying to hook up a 1080p projector on your ceiling to a Blu-ray or HD DVD player, this is a concern.]

Monoprice cables kick ass ? what is that about ? they are telling me is a seeing difference in cables at 6 feet ? come on, are they stating they saw something on a meter ? like one digit ?

Ok so back up I went to hdmi org, home page top menu on “consumer” down to “connenecting with hdmi”

Here is what they state, please remember these are the people who invented and sell the right to others to manufacture hdmi cables, in using that trade mark name, whoever makes this cable must adhere to the “specification” this is how they stated it and how I read it, seems one is find with lengths up to 25 feet lets say 20 feet for the just in case : - )

Long cable lengths — 25 to 100 feet
If you need to send a 1080p signal more than 25 feet, or a 1080i signal more than 49 feet, active electronics will help clean up and boost an HDMI signal when it’s traveling long distances. You can purchase either a stand-alone booster box or an active cable, where the circuitry is embedded in the connectors themselves. In both cases, the connection requires a power source.

Long cable lengths —100 feet+
Several specialized technologies have been developed for extremely long cable lengths. Go to "Running Long Cable Lengths" in the Installer section of this site for more information.

I do have a problem with those guys stating:

[At short distances up to 6ft (2 meters), you can pretty much get away with any cable. Monoprice cables kicked ass at the 6 foot length that mostly everyone uses.
Not all cables are the same, however, and in truth, it's the medium-priced cables that may be the real rip-off.]

If the cable one is buying is an honest hdmi in spec (not a rip off ) there is no difference in cables period up too say 25 ft, so I believe that all hdmi cables in spec are the same.

Best deal cables are having a 70% off sale this month some of the finest component / sub cables to be had IMO

 

[riffjim4069]

That's why most of us have been buying from monoprice.com for some time.

+2

 

[Ilya]

HDMI cables are not created equal

If the cable one is buying is an honest hdmi in spec (not a rip off ) there is no difference in cables period up too say 25 ft, so I believe that all hdmi cables in spec are the same.

It's not that simple.

First of all, there are different types and levels of HDMI certification. Requirements for HDMI 1.3 certification are very different from requirements for HDMI 1.2. Even within HDMI 1.3 certification there is Category 1 (that corresponds to 720p/1080i frequencies) and Category 2 (for higher bandwidth).

Second, cable manufacturers are not required to test and certify every single cable they sell. All they need to do is to submit and pass Compliance Test with a single batch of their cables. Even worse, some manufacturers may submit their shortest cables for testing and then put the logo on cables of different sizes or even of different AWG.

If you look at those eye-shaped patterns in the Gizmodo's article, you will see that even at 6' the patterns are very different for different cables and none of them are perfect. And by the way, those eye-patterns is basically what is used in HDMI Compliance Testing.

What does it mean the "eye-pattern is better for one cable than the other"? It means that the cable will be less susceptive to interference, will be less likely to exhibit errors, show video noise, etc.

There is a common misconception that "digital" equals to "error-free" and that digital cables either work or they don't. Well, there is much more in between! Yes, it's either "ones" or "zeros", but those "ones" and "zeros" are represented by corresponding (analog) voltage levels. If the voltage level is close to the border of its allowed range, a small electro-magnetic interference (e.g. from other cables and sources) can cause "one" become "zero" or vice versa.

Let's take an Ethernet CAT5 cable for example. It is also susceptive to errors. But you don't get damaged data as a result. That's because the network protocol (TCP/IP) can tolerate and correct errors. It will resend data packets if required. When the error level is high, the network traffic may slow-down, as it takes several retries to send some data packets.

Unlike Ethernet (TCP/IP), HDMI protocol does not have any error-correction. For HDMI, "digital" doesn't mean "error-free". If a single digit changes from "one" to "zero" the most likely outcome is that a pixel color will change. Of course, if the frequency of errors is relatively low, you will not even notice that. But at a higher frequency of errors, you may start noticing digital noise, or even a loss of synchronization.

The longer the cable - the more susceptive it becomes to interference and digital errors. It's essentially like a bigger antenna. That's why the quality of cable becomes more important at longer runs, and the test results in the article confirm that.

 

[torp74]

The truth is that this is just low hanging fruit for the salespeople. They have us by the nads. We got the new HDTV or Blu-Ray, we need cables, and we need them right now by god! So, what do you have Mr. Salesperso, oh, you have the $59.99 Monster 6-footer. Is that what I need to get my system going? Yep, ok give me two! Oh, and give me one of those Monster power centers at $89.99, got to have one of those two eh? Don't forget the $60 worth of big thick speaker wire. The stuff that comes with your new system is garbage. Thanks Onkyo! Folks it is just another chance to poke a sharp stick in the consumers eye, but whats new?

 

[tryinghard]

HDMI cables are created equal

"Ilya"

"It's not that simple."

Sorry I believe it is that simple a cable spec is a cable spec I deal with that a few times a year, I don't care who makes a cable if it is under a cable spec that covers our current instrumentation maker we use then it works.

"First of all, there are different types and levels of HDMI certification. Requirements for HDMI 1.3 certification are very different from requirements for HDMI 1.2. Even within HDMI 1.3 certification there is Category 1 (that corresponds to 720p/1080i frequencies) and Category 2 (for higher bandwidth)."



HDMI versions
One of the most confusing aspects of HDMI is that there are several different versions. While most new products support HDMI 1.3, many older products support older HDMI iterations, such as HDMI 1.2. Much has been made about HDMI 1.3 and its increased bandwidth, but it offers few real-world benefits. Yes, it adds support for "Deep Color"--which is an expanded color gamut--but outside of a few high-def camcorders, there aren't any sources that actually use Deep Color. There are no current or announced Blu-ray discs that use Deep Color. HDMI 1.3 also adds automatic lip-syncing, but we haven't had any problems with lip-syncing on previous HDMI versions.

The major upgrade for HDMI 1.3 is that it enables the ability to send high-resolution soundtracks such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio in bit stream format. While all HDMI versions can handle these soundtracks if they've first been converted to PCM format by a compatible player, HDMI 1.3 is needed if they are to be sent in encoded bit stream format. It's certainly counterintuitive--since these soundtracks are actually losslessly compressed in bit stream format and therefore require less bandwidth--but that's the way it works. This feature is also likely to become much less important as new Blu-ray players with onboard decoding for all high-resolution soundtracks become available.

Another important note for HDMI 1.3 is that it doesn't guarantee the support of any of the features we mentioned--Deep Color, automatic lip-syncing and bit stream audio support are all optional features that manufacturers can choose to include. In other words, you're better off ignoring what HDMI version a product supports and just focusing on what features it has.

It's also worth noting that, according to a spokesman for HDMI itself, "98 percent" of all HDMI cables work fine with HDMI 1.3. So there's no reason to buy special cables that support version 1.3.
CNET
***********

Q. What is the difference between HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.3a, or 1.3b?
For consumers, there is no difference between HDMI version 1.3 and 1.3a or 1.3b. These minor revisions to the specification typically relate to manufacturing or testing issues and do not impact features or functionality. In addition, HDMI Licensing, LLC is actively working with manufacturers to reduce confusion for consumers by de-emphasizing version numbers and focusing instead on product features and functionality.For Adopters, the latest HDMI Specification is v1.3a and the latest HDMI Compliance Test Specification (CTS) is 1.3c.

"Second, cable manufacturers are not required to test and certify every single cable they sell. All they need to do is to submit and pass Compliance Test with a single batch of their cables. Even worse, some manufacturers may submit their shortest cables for testing and then put the logo on cables of different sizes or even of different AWG."

That is standard business practice no one I believe check very cable, (does Monoprice check every cable ?) unless it goes up in the Shuttle.

"If you look at those eye-shaped patterns in the Gizmodo's article, you will see that even at 6' the patterns are very different for different cables and none of them are perfect. And by the way, those eye-patterns is basically what is used in HDMI Compliance Testing."

That would have to be a test in front of me, I am willing to put up money if two hdmi cables in spec shows a difference in video / audio in a 6 foot long cable !

"What does it mean the "eye-pattern is better for one cable than the other"? It means that the cable will be less susceptive to interference, will be less likely to exhibit errors, show video noise, etc."

"There is a common misconception that "digital" equals to "error-free" and that digital cables either work or they don't. Well, there is much more in between! Yes, it's either "ones" or "zeros", but those "ones" and "zeros" are represented by corresponding (analog) voltage levels. If the voltage level is close to the border of its allowed range, a small electro-magnetic interference (e.g. from other cables and sources) can cause "one" become "zero" or vice versa."

"Let's take an Ethernet CAT5 cable for example. It is also susceptive to errors. But you don't get damaged data as a result. That's because the network protocol (TCP/IP) can tolerate and correct errors. It will resend data packets if required. When the error level is high, the network traffic may slow-down, as it takes several retries to send some data packets."

Lets stick with hdmi cables lets stick with the spec of that cable ok ?

"Unlike Ethernet (TCP/IP), HDMI protocol does not have any error-correction. For HDMI, "digital" doesn't mean "error-free". If a single digit changes from "one" to "zero" the most likely outcome is that a pixel color will change. Of course, if the frequency of errors is relatively low, you will not even notice that. But at a higher frequency of errors, you may start noticing digital noise, or even a loss of synchronization."

Can you see that difference ??? or are you talking about a digit ? any debate can go down to the 9th degree to get a point across, but this is about "picture and audio quality" what a human can see and hear not scopes ? and not having one wraps a hdmi cable around a AC power cord and get interference ?

"The longer the cable - the more susceptive it becomes to interference and digital errors. It's essentially like a bigger antenna. That's why the quality of cable becomes more important at longer runs, and the test results in the article confirm that."

I never brought up cable lengths of course the longer the run the better the cable must be either by the cable manufacture design or by the "spec" its made by, lets stick with the majority hdmi cable lengths in homes today or would you rather have a buck for every one over 25 feet or a buck for everyone 6 ft or under ?

I believe your taking this very personal I am not, I only have the spec and others to go by.

The main fact many people get all wrap up in cable prices is the quality of the manufacture what parts are used, do they cut corners ? but the big iron in this case is this cable is back by a "cable spec" it changes everything !

And I am one, who would have to "see and hear" the difference, scopes don't impress me !

 

[Ilya]

If you are stating that all HDMI cables are all exactly the same, then I disagree. And I have explained why.

But I think we are all in agreement here that at short distances even $3 cables (like those from Monoprice) will do just fine. So, I don't see much point in arguing further.

 

[tryinghard]

specification

If you are stating that all HDMI cables are all exactly the same, then I disagree. And I have explained why.

But I think we are all in agreement here that at short distances even $3 cables (like those from Monoprice) will do just fine. So, I don't see much point in arguing further.

"Ilya"

"If you are stating that all HDMI cables are all exactly the same, then I disagree. And I have explained why."

I am not stating that at all, I am putting up what others have stated, hdmi is a specification with a Spec it's almost impossible to have a bad cable.

spec·i·fi·ca·tion

1 - The act of specifying.
2-
a- specifications A detailed, exact statement of particulars, especially a statement prescribing materials, dimensions, and quality of work for something to be built, installed, or manufactured.

b- A single item or article that has been specified.

3- An exact written description of an invention by an applicant for a patent.


"Ilya"

"But I think we are all in agreement here that at short distances even $3 cables (like those from Monoprice) will do just fine. So, I don't see much point in arguing further."


No, I am not in agreement on short 3 ft distance, I am stating all hdmi cables (in spec) up to 25 feet which I posted from their site (hdmi org), so that is why I stated that testing link you posted IMO is out of wack stating there was a difference in a 6' foot cable ? it can't be, let me be real clear I am talking about a difference in "seeing and audio" not in calculations or use of a scope, real life as long as the spec is carried out, there is no difference, from a $80 monster to that $3 ebay one !

If like me someone who understands this in advance and still chooses to spend a little more money for the "better feel" cable outer wrapping and finish (gold wash on the connectors) so be it, and once more hdmi cable choosing has nothing to do with component or sub wiring these are not in Spec, so its buyer beware.

Now with this snow/ice day off it's back to mounting my 4 speakers on the wall and wiring the speakers up with Carol Brand (25 ft) 14 ga, silver plated over ETP copper, studio grade wire, that I couldn't pass-up 4 years ago on blow-out sale at Home Depot for $4.00 each : - )) damn they only had 4 rolls left ! : - )

 

[HD MM]

If you are stating that all HDMI cables are all exactly the same, then I disagree. And I have explained why.

But I think we are all in agreement here that at short distances even $3 cables (like those from Monoprice) will do just fine. So, I don't see much point in arguing further.

I have a 50' HDMI cable from monoprice and it works wonderfully.

 

[Ilya]

hdmi is a specification with a Spec it's almost impossible to have a bad cable.
spec·i·fi·ca·tion

Sure, if the cable truly meets the specs, then it should work. That's what the specs are for.
My only disagreement with you is this: just because the cable has HDMI logo on it doesn't necessarily mean that it meets the specs and will work flawlessly. If you buy an HDMI cable on Ebay or from some unknown source can you really trust the seller's claim?

You said:

Any HDMI cable made by anyone must adhere to the HDMI “Spec”

Unfortunately this is not always true. According to the Gizmodo's test results, some cables that carried HDMI logo have failed the REAL WORLD (1.65 Gbps) test. I know, that were 35-feet cables and longer, and you draw the line at 25 feet. Sorry - they didn't test 25-foot cables.

I am just showing you an example that if a manufacturer (even a well-known one) puts HDMI logo on the cable, it doesn't necessarily mean that the cable will work without problems. Whether this is Monster or Monoprice. (And the price of the cable is not a good guide!)

All 6-foot cables have passed their REAL WORLD tests but only some have passed the FUTURE WORLD tests (at frequencies above 1.65 Gbps). Whether this future compatibility is important for you or not - that's a completely separate question. (If you plan to buy a new set of cables a few years from now, then certainly not.) My only point is that not all cables are equal and the tests these guys did prove that.

By the way, here is a good read about what cable certification really means:

What does it mean that an HDMI cable is "Certified"? -- Blue Jeans Cable

 

[tryinghard]

"tryhard"
"hdmi is a specification with a Spec it's almost impossible to have a bad cable."

"Ilya"
"Sure, if the cable truly meets the specs, then it should work. That's what the specs are for."

Now that is progress

"Ilya"
"I am just showing you an example that if a manufacturer (even a well-known one) puts HDMI logo on the cable, it doesn't necessarily mean that the cable will work without problems. Whether this is Monster or Monoprice. (And the price of the cable is not a good guide!)"

So whats a good guide that testing link you listed ?, I would bet money that Monster and even Monoprice would not stick their necks out making an in fearer product, one has a better chance of getting one of these say from China no-name cable. (milk, tires, kids toys etc. ) It's not a perfect world out there, but I wouldn't hang all on few bad ones that slip in, yes a debate point but IMO that is all it is.

All HDMI products are required to be certified by the manufacturer as part of the HDMI Compliance Test Specification. However, there may be instances where cables bearing the HDMI logo are available but have not been properly tested. HDMI Licensing, LLC actively investigates these instances to ensure that the HDMI trademark is properly used in the market. We recommend that consumers buy their cables from a reputable source and a company that is trusted. hdmi org

"Ilya"
"All 6-foot cables have passed their REAL WORLD tests but only some have passed the FUTURE WORLD tests (at frequencies above 1.65 Gbps). Whether this future compatibility is important for you or not - that's a completely separate question. (If you plan to buy a new set of cables a few years from now, then certainly not.) My only point is that not all cables are equal and the tests these guys did prove that."


THE FUTURE WORLD AND REAL WORLD IS ALREADY HERE, "Ilya" maybe that testing lab should check their equipment or have it re-certified ?

Higher speed: Although all previous versions of HDMI have had more than enough bandwidth to support all current HDTV formats, including full, uncompressed 1080p signals, HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds. hdmi org

"Ilya"
"By the way, here is a good read about what cable certification really means:"

What does it mean that an HDMI cable is "Certified"? -- Blue Jeans Cable


All HDMI products are required to be certified by the manufacturer as part of the HDMI Compliance Test Specification. However, there may be instances where cables bearing the HDMI logo are available but have not been properly tested. HDMI Licensing, LLC actively investigates these instances to ensure that the HDMI trademark is properly used in the market. We recommend that consumers buy their cables from a reputable source and a company that is trusted. hdmi org

Certified

- adjective

1- having or proved by a certificate: a certified representative.
2- guaranteed; reliably endorsed: a certified check
3- legally declared insane.
4- committed to a mental institution.

HDMI specifies the required performance of a cable but does not specify a maximum cable length. We have seen cables pass "Standard Cable" HDMI compliance testing at lengths of up to a maximum of 10 meters without the use of a repeater. It is not only the cable that factors into how long a cable can successfully carry an HDMI signal, the receiver chip inside the TV or projector also plays a major factor. Receiver chips that include a feature called "cable equalization" are able to compensate for weaker signals thereby extending the potential length of any cable that is used with that device.
With any long run of an HDMI cable, quality manufactured cables can play a significant role in successfully running HDMI over such longer distances. hdmi org


It would be better if next time you reply to include some real world proof of two 6 ft long hdmi (spec) cables showing distortions in video and audio performance and explain how this is more common then not.

 

[Ilya]

THE FUTURE WORLD AND REAL WORLD IS ALREADY HERE

Exactly!

It would be better if next time you reply to include some real world proof of two 6 ft long hdmi (spec) cables showing distortions in video and audio performance

Just do a Google search on "Bad HDMI cable". You will have a ton of examples.

and explain how this is more common then not.

I never said it was common. The shorter the cable, the less likely you are to notice any problems at all.

I don't understand why you want to continue this argument. Are you still insisting that all cables with HDMI logo are the same and meet the latest specs? This is simply not true. I have already explained why. Please read the article from Blue Jeans Cable for further details.

Even the HDMI spokesman, according to your own quote from CNET, essentially admits that one out of fifty HDMI cables (2%) may have problems with HDMI 1.3. I don't know what other proof you are looking for?

So whats a good guide

My personal advice: buy cheap cables from a trusted seller who knows what he/she is selling and look for HDMI 1.3a Category 2 compliance, not just HDMI logo. Also, make sure the connectors are gold plated. Monoprice would be my personal choice: very cheap, yet good quality.

For longer runs (especially for in-wall installations and front projectors) don't go cheap: look for low AWG number: 24 or even 22.

 

[tryinghard]

Sorry about the late reply very busy and my keyboard crapped out !!!

[tryinghard]

[THE FUTURE WORLD AND REAL WORLD IS ALREADY HERE]

"Ilya"
"Exactly!"

What do you mean "Exactly" ? what are you talking about ? my comment was on your test lab that made a big deal out of testing hdmi cables up too 1.65 Gbps ,[ "All 6-foot cables have passed their REAL WORLD tests but only some have passed the FUTURE WORLD tests (at frequencies above 1.65 Gbps).]
And I posted this from hdmi own site:

[Higher speed: Although all previous versions of HDMI have had more than enough bandwidth to support all current HDTV formats, including full, uncompressed 1080p signals, HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds. hdmi org]

So again whats with "Exactly!" ??

So again brings me to what Ilya ? that at least the test lab should had known that figure of 10.2 Gbps that hdmi 1.3 is already at in their spec ? and wouldn't your think that common sense of knowing that info and Gizmodo testing in a lab seeing an inferior 6 ft cable just might think this is an odd ball ? it doesn't meet current spec ? maybe I should send or give this info to hdmi org ?? you think ??

tryinghard
It would be better if next time you reply to include some real world proof of two 6 ft long hdmi (spec) cables showing distortions in video and audio performance

"Ilya"
Just do a Google search on "Bad HDMI cable". You will have a ton of examples.

Yeah a ton of issues ? non issues Ilya two examples

["I've never seen an HDMI cable go bad but that's not to say it can't happen.

Can you try different sources using the same input and cable? Xbox 360? PS3? Computer? DVD player? Satellite/cable box?"]

and the most important one from CNET….

Holiday season reminder: Buy cheap HDMI cables
December 10, 2008

In the bustle of holiday shopping, it's easy to be persuaded by the salesperson at your local retailer that you need to buy a $50 HDMI cable to make your new gear work. They might say the expensive cable "supports faster speeds," "has better video quality," or that "cheap cables don't support 1080p"--pretty much anything to get you to throw that high-margin HDMI cable in your shopping cart. But the truth is that expensive HDMI cables aren't worth it and the cheap cables available online are just as good. In fact, our guide to HDMI cables says this in bold, at the top of the page:

CNET strongly recommends cheap HDMI cables widely available from online retailers instead of the expensive counterparts sold in your local electronics store.
The full guide explains all the reasons in detail, but the main takeaway is that you should never pay more than $10 for a standard 6-foot HDMI cable. Cheap HDMI cables can be found all over the Web--we've had good experiences with both Monoprice and Amazon. Then you can take the money you saved and get some gear that's actually worth it--check out CNET's Holiday Gift Guide for suggestions.
CNET


tryinghard

and explain how this is more common then not.

"Ilya"

"I never said it was common. The shorter the cable, the less likely you are to notice any problems at all."

tryhard
You started off by listing "Gizmodo" lab test on "6 foot cables" ? Look above and below:

"Ilya"
"Just do a Google search on "Bad HDMI cable". You will have a ton of examples"

"Ilya"

"I don't understand why you want to continue this argument. Are you still insisting that all cables with HDMI logo are the same and meet the latest specs? This is simply not true. I h"ave already explained why. Please read the article from Blue Jeans Cable for further details."

tryinghard
First off believe me this is not a argument, I believe you want this for what ever reason, maybe because you bet it all on that lab you linked Gizmodo the testing that showed a difference in a "6 ft hdmi cables" ??? back to your so called link on bad hdmi cables… if the cable meets Spec it must work ?? this is basic understanding of how things work, if a cable doesn't work then it must not meet Spec this is 100 percent fact ! and it's already known it's approx 2% of all cables, so IMO this is nowhere a big deal ?

"Ilya"

"Even the HDMI spokesman, according to your own quote from CNET, essentially admits that one out of fifty HDMI cables (2%) may have problems with HDMI 1.3. I don't know what other proof you are looking for? "


I know the quote, I posted it, 2 % 2 out of a 100, 20 out of a 1,000, and it means that 98 % of the cables do pass the Spec but yet 1 of these cables found there way into that lab Gizmodo testing on 6 ft cables ? and they and you treat this as a common thing ??? or why didn't Gizmodo instead of just getting another sample and reporting that hdmi brand to hdmi org ? as I listed from their site they do active investigations on cables that don't meet Spec ??? do you see why I see this little debate about 6 ft hdmi cables not up to grade as a non issue, because it's not an issue, only to some. Hdmi Spec is one of the most important developments in HD one cable that dose so much, it dose this mainly because it is a Spec !

tryhard
So whats a good guide

"Ilya"

"My personal advice: buy cheap cables from a trusted seller who knows what he/she is selling and look for HDMI 1.3a Category 2 compliance, not just HDMI logo."

tryinghard

That doest make sense "not just HDMI logo." ? CNET doesn't state that above ? just hold on, CNET never, ever used the term as you ", not just HDMI logo." ??? remember CNET is making a statement on I believe standard 3 to 6 ft long hdmi cables !! they start to use the term "from trusted suppliers" when they get "into longer lengths" as one should !!! as I stated, I use this type of question to drive home a point I am trying to make, would you Ilya take a dollar for every hdmi used in America that are 3 to 6 ft in length or take a buck for longer lengths 20 feet + and running through walls and floors ??? because this post was started with the standard lengths involved, I listed a few replies back how hdmi org :

CNET
The editors at CNET are so confident that cheap HDMI cables offer identical performance, we've been using inexpensive Monoprice HDMI cables in the CNET Home Theater Lab for more than a year with no issues. That's saying a lot, especially when you consider that our video experts are constantly swapping in new products and changing configurations, which means our cables take much more abuse than they would in a normal home theater. We're also accustomed to making long cable runs, and many of our cables from Monoprice are 15 feet long. We also use even longer 20-foot cables from a generic maker with no appreciable loss in video quality. If cheap HDMI cables are good enough for the eagle-eyed video professionals at CNET, we're betting they're good enough for your home theater.

It's also worth noting that, according to a spokesman for HDMI itself, "98 percent" of all HDMI cables work fine with HDMI 1.3. So there's no reason to buy special cables that support version 1.3.

Q. Does HDMI accommodate long cable lengths?
Yes. HDMI technology has been designed to use standard copper cable construction at long lengths. In order to allow cable manufacturers to improve their products through the use of new technologies, HDMI specifies the required performance of a cable but does not specify a maximum cable length. We have seen cables pass "Standard Cable" HDMI compliance testing at lengths of up to a maximum of 10 meters without the use of a repeater. It is not only the cable that factors into how long a cable can successfully carry an HDMI signal, the receiver chip inside the TV or projector also plays a major factor. Receiver chips that include a feature called "cable equalization" are able to compensate for weaker signals thereby extending the potential length of any cable that is used with that device.
With any long run of an HDMI cable, quality manufactured cables can play a significant role in successfully running HDMI over such longer distances.

"Ilya"
" Also, make sure the connectors are gold plated. Monoprice would be my personal choice: very cheap, yet good quality. "

tryinghard

Gold plated : - )) a selling point, gold plated is not in the hdmi spec, I guess it would be a good extra thing if one lives in a dark damp cave : - )

"Ilya"

"For longer runs (especially for in-wall installations and front projectors) don't go cheap: look for low AWG number: 24 or even 22."

tryinghard

Also look for copper wire as in the above statement for hdmi org

As for a simple post from the beginning, one thing:

"Oh what tangled webs we weave"

 

[jayn_j]

It's not that simple.

If you look at those eye-shaped patterns in the Gizmodo's article, you will see that even at 6' the patterns are very different for different cables and none of them are perfect. And by the way, those eye-patterns is basically what is used in HDMI Compliance Testing.

What does it mean the "eye-pattern is better for one cable than the other"? It means that the cable will be less susceptive to interference, will be less likely to exhibit errors, show video noise, etc.

Hi Ilya,

I agree 99% with what you say. The only point is that the eye diagrams in the time domain only give a subjective feel to cable quality and at best a pass-fail indicator if they encroach on the inner lines. A true reproducable measurement should be done with a vector network analyzer swept from baseband up to the desired bandwidth. You can then measure the impedence loss and phase shift of the data. I would hope that this is the basis of the actual HDMI spec for qualification.

 

[tryinghard]

What the hell was I thinking ???

Hi Ilya,

I agree 99% with what you say. The only point is that the eye diagrams in the time domain only give a subjective feel to cable quality and at best a pass-fail indicator if they encroach on the inner lines. A true reproducable measurement should be done with a vector network analyzer swept from baseband up to the desired bandwidth. You can then measure the impedence loss and phase shift of the data. I would hope that this is the basis of the actual HDMI spec for qualification.

Damn and here I thought when a specification is written and followed its a closed case ?

What the hell was I thinking ???

As long as the said cable is “in-spec” it will perform the task, Damn the things one picks up off the web ?

I better get my A$$ in gear and start the second guessing, all the instrumentation cables I have spec out over the years the chemical and nuke industry ?

Who would have thought I could pick up such info in a forum ?

 

[jayn_j]

Damn and here I thought when a specification is written and followed its a closed case ?

What the hell was I thinking ???

As long as the said cable is “in-spec” it will perform the task, Damn the things one picks up off the web ?

I better get my A$$ in gear and start the second guessing, all the instrumentation cables I have spec out over the years the chemical and nuke industry ?

Who would have thought I could pick up such info in a forum ?

Uh, what the heck is your problem, tryinghard? If a cable meets spec, you should be confident it will work in the application. Unfortunately the spec doesn't extend to long runs, which is why this discussion started in the first place. Obne problem is that none of these cables actually claim conformance to any standard. Some are starting to list HDMI 1.3 spec, and that should give some assurance. However, the 1.3 spec excludes long runs and recommends repeaters and amplifiers.

Oh yeah, I've spent my 30 years in the test & measurement industry, designing those instruments you spec out in the chemical industry. If you look at my posts on cables, you will see that I am not advocating second guessing anything. I stay away from overpriced cables. However, if there is going to be a spec, I firmly believe that it should be based on measurable and repeatable criteria and not an eye diagram. I am also not advocating that the user has to know squat about those specs, except that a particular cable passed the conformance test.