Help With Wiring Of Thompson Saginaw 36" Actuator

[moonbase]

Hi,

I came across some new (old stock) 36" Thompron Saginaw actuators but there were no wiring details included in the box or inside the removable wiring head cover. Would anyone please be able to advise me of the correct wiring of these actuators to a v-box or an old satellite receiver with internal positioner. I have v-boxes and satellite receiver/positioners with the +5V connector if that is required? I have attached some pictures of the wiring layout and the original box.

One of the boxes has the number 7822351 on a cardboard flap inside the box, another box has the number 7821072 written on the end of the box as a product/part number if that helps with identification for the wiring? I think there might be a few variants of model so if anyone has the identical model to refer to that would be great.

Any help most appreciated.

 

[Magic Static]

I don't see anything that looks like a sensor wire or sensor in there. I see the two limit switches but where are the diodes? This is a puzzle. Being NOS you wouldn't think it had been played with. I wonder what the application was meant to be.

 

[arlo]

Wow. No sensor.

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

Hi,

I came across some new (old stock) 36" Thompron Saginaw actuators but there were no wiring details included in the box or inside the removable wiring head cover. Would anyone please be able to advise me of the correct wiring of these actuators to a v-box or an old satellite receiver with internal positioner. I have v-boxes and satellite receiver/positioners with the +5V connector if that is required? I have attached some pictures of the wiring layout and the original box.

One of the boxes has the number 7822351 on a cardboard flap inside the box, another box has the number 7821072 written on the end of the box as a product/part number if that helps with identification for the wiring? I think there might be a few variants of model so if anyone has the identical model to refer to that would be great.

Any help most appreciated.

The first photo shows the board marked with MOTOR and SENSOR. It should be a "slam dunk" to connect up the dish mover to the actuator with that info. The heavier gauge red and black wires are obviously for the motor. I'm not sure about the sensor wires but I don't see why there would be terminals for a limit switch - if that's what they are for.

 

[primestar31]

I think those are Hall Sensor models. If so, wiring goes like this from LEFT to RIGHT:

1: Motor RED (+) 2: Motor BLACK (-) 3: N/C 4: Red (+) Hall Sensor 5: Black (0) Hall Sensor 6: Green (-) Hall Sensor

Product not found! | Viking Satcom

vikingsatcom.com

moonbase Consider contacting the company and asking them. Linear Actuators - Thomsonlinear.com | Find a Product

 

[Magic Static]

Look at where the wires go. Most of those have motor power in them. And if you enlarge the picture there is a lot more you don't see.

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

I think those are Hall Sensor models. If so, wiring goes like this from LEFT to RIGHT:

1: Motor RED (+) 2: Motor BLACK (-) 3: N/C 4: Red (+) Hall Sensor 5: Black (0) Hall Sensor 6: Green (-) Hall Sensor

Product not found! | Viking Satcom

vikingsatcom.com

moonbase Consider contacting the company and asking them. Linear Actuators - Thomsonlinear.com | Find a Product

Wow. Those actuators are quite pricey.

 

[arlo]

Negative.

1: Motor RED (+) 2: Motor BLACK (-) 3: N/C 4: Red Limit Switch5: Black Limit Switch 6: Green Limit Switch

 

[moonbase]

Guys,

Thank you for your replies.

I had a closer look at a couple of the actuators and they seem to have Hall Effect switches based on the label attached to the black motor winding casing. I am guessing the Hall Effect switch has to be somewhere?

I also noticed some numbering scratched into the metal surface of the motor casings, possibly a part number or production number. Pictures of both the label and the scratched numbering are attached below.

It looks like most replies consider connections 1 and 2 to be Motor. I have some 5 core cable, each core 1mm. If I wire up the actuator to a v-box (+5v model) as listed below for a test is there a risk of any damage or should I contact Thompson and wait for their reply to be on the safe side?

Connections numbered 1 to 6 starting from the Left
1. Motor +
2. Motor -
3. no connection
4. 5v (red)
5. sensor
6. sensor

The v-box manual indicates the upper sensor connection is pulse and the lower sensor connection is ground. Does this have any bearing on the wiring proposal I listed above apart from counting in the wrong direction?

 

[arlo]

Good morning. I would have to ask you.
Where does each wire on the terminal strip lead to?
Left to right I see a red and black that leads directly into the motor case. Right?
And the remaining 3 wires. Do they lead right up to the upper/lower limit micro switches?

You see, in any other satellite actuator you're going to see that the motor wiring loops through the limit switches and on them are diodes.
Once the actuator inner stroke is reached, one switch opens and shuts the motor off.
Same thing when the outer stroke is reached.
It looks like your actuator would run the arm in until the motor stalls. Same on the outer stroke.
NO motor leads loop through the limit switches.
My assumption is that the limit switch wiring goes to an external controller like a door or gate controller.
I see NO hall switch, magnet disc, or reed switch wiring at all in your motor.

Question. Can you identify what a micro switch, reed switch, or hall effect sensor is? Very important, sir. Something's very fishy here.

 

[arlo]

I'm seeing what magic sees right here over coffee.
I'd have to say if you trace your wiring you'll see pretty much the same.
The motor will run until it stalls because no limit switches are in it's circuit.
Externally there would be an indicator or control box that detected when limits are reached.
Depending on how the limit switches are wired, in my chicken scratch diagram
Both lamps are lit up IF the limit switches are closed and letting juice through the contacts.
IF one of the switches is tripped by the limit cam finger, the light for that switch goes out. Same when the motor is driven the other way.
Like I said the micro switches can be wired for normally open (no juice conducts until the plunger is depressed) or normally closed (conducts until the plunger is pushed in).
Don't blow up anything. There's a mis-labeled actuator in that box.

 

[moonbase]

Good morning. I would have to ask you.
Where does each wire on the terminal strip lead to?
Left to right I see a red and black that leads directly into the motor case. Right?
And the remaining 3 wires. Do they lead right up to the upper/lower limit micro switches?

You see, in any other satellite actuator you're going to see that the motor wiring loops through the limit switches and on them are diodes.
Once the actuator inner stroke is reached, one switch opens and shuts the motor off.
Same thing when the outer stroke is reached.
It looks like your actuator would run the arm in until the motor stalls. Same on the outer stroke.
NO motor leads loop through the limit switches.
My assumption is that the limit switch wiring goes to an external controller like a door or gate controller.
I see NO hall switch, magnet disc, or reed switch wiring at all in your motor.

Question. Can you identify what a micro switch, reed switch, or hall effect sensor is? Very important, sir. Something's very fishy here.

Yes, there is a black and red coming from the cylindrical motor casing that goes directly to terminals 1 and 2 on the left of the strip of 6

The three remaining wires lead directly up to the limit switches, they do not route anywhere else.

I know what a reed switch looks like, I have no idea what the other two switch types look like

If there is something fishy it is not of my making, I simply bought the actuators without removing the wiring covers on the assumption they would be OK for a general satellite setup. It is only when I removed the wiring cover to test them out that I realised that I did not know how to wire them up.

If they are useless then it is not an issue for me, I have bought plenty satellite junk before that has gone to the tip, these can have the same fate.

 

[arlo]

Yes, there is a black and red coming from the cylindrical motor casing that goes directly to terminals 1 and 2 on the left of the strip of 6

The three remaining wires lead directly up to the limit switches, they do not route anywhere else.

I know what a reed switch looks like, I have no idea what the other two switch types look like

If there is something fishy it is not of my making, I simply bought the actuators without removing the wiring covers on the assumption they would be OK for a general satellite setup. It is only when I removed the wiring cover to test them out that I realised that I did not know how to wire them up.

If they are useless then it is not an issue for me, I have bought plenty satellite junk before that has gone to the tip, these can have the same fate.

Well I surely didn't mean to bust any bubbles. I'm "pretty good" with electronics. This one is a day at the beach.
Look's like others that pop out suggestions after having photos like you put up on assumption that since theirs is wired the way it is, yours should be too.
Good thing you asked here and you didn't blow the circuit in your controller.
Not being able to identify a limit switch, hall sensor, or reed sensor in this "hobby" these days will lead to a disaster.
But....there must be a provision to add some sort of sensor in your gearbox. A little rewiring of the limits and a couple of diodes, a magnet and sensor of your choosing could be done easily if you had a donor unit. Heck, I'd do it. I need a good heavy duty 36" actuator here.

 

[Magic Static]

I had an idea that this might be a secondary actuator for a two actuator set. The sensor and limits controlled by the other actuator. But the OP says he has two of these wired the same way.

 

[arlo]

Well I surely didn't mean to bust any bubbles. I'm "pretty good" with electronics. This one is a day at the beach.
Look's like others that pop out suggestions after having photos like you put up on assumption that since theirs is wired the way it is, yours should be too.
Good thing you asked here and you didn't blow the circuit in your controller.
Not being able to identify a limit switch, hall sensor, or reed sensor in this "hobby" these days will lead to a disaster.
But....there must be a provision to add some sort of sensor in your gearbox. A little rewiring of the limits and a couple of diodes, a magnet and sensor of your choosing could be done easily if you had a donor unit. Heck, I'd do it. I need a good heavy duty 36" actuator here.
Edit:
Your assy. should look like this The sensor is a hall effect in in a micro switch form housing with a trigger wheel.

 

[Brct203]

I had an idea that this might be a secondary actuator for a two actuator set. The sensor and limits controlled by the other actuator. But the OP says he has two of these wired the same way.

I think that's a good guess. I have never wired any dual-actuator set, but I would think you would have the pulse sensor in only one of the actuators, and have the limit switches wired in a way that whichever trips first stops both motors, hence the separation of motor and limit switch wiring.

So maybe those 2 actuators are the sensor-less siblings of 2 dual-actuator sets?

the obvious solution for using those as single-actuator is to add a magnet wheel and reed switch, like Arlo suggested. This said, it's not clear how/where to add this without taking things apart

 

[clucas]

I have a feeling the box does not belong to that actuator. Linear actuators are also used as gate openers and to expand motorhome/trailer slide outs that would not require multiple stop positions. They just run to each limit.

 

[moonbase]

I have a feeling the box does not belong to that actuator. Linear actuators are also used as gate openers and to expand motorhome/trailer slide outs that would not require multiple stop positions. They just run to each limit.

The actuators were supplied by Thompson to a UK company named Kingston InMedia back in 2002. Kingston InMedia were subsequently bought out by Arqiva and were in the satellite media business so I am assuming that the actuators may possibly have been purchased for some type of satellite application.