Hobbyist Open Source Satellite Receiver - Raspberry Pi 2???

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Imagine a two block, block diagram.

Block one (1) being the RF portion.

Block two (2) being the software portion.

Block one (1):

Just how geeky or nerdy do we wish to make the project as whole?

If, pretty geeky, then we need someone with the ability to design and layout PCBs, so we could have PCBs produced. One catch is that I would say that no surface mount technology be used on the PCB, as most of us are not able to handle that task. I would guess that most of us are not afraid of a soldering iron, but SMT is not for the faint of heart or as most of us are getting older, the eye sight isn't what it used to be either.

The plus side of going geeky, is having total control over what is done in the RF portion.

The negatives are several. Did we just exclude a bunch of people because they wouldn't think of soldering anything together? Would the group always have someone that could layout a new PCB when technology moves forward? Is it even possible to get the required chips in non SMT format? Then, we also open up a whole new can of worms as some people may have problems assembling such a board, because at the frequencies we are talking about, if you clip your leads to long you have just created an antenna and probably some stray RF issues.

Personally, I think it would be cool and fun to build the RF portion, but from a public project standpoint, I would have to say probably not.

So, that would leave us with the prospect of using off the shelf stuff for the RF portion. I would guess that USB would probably be the best and easiest way to communicate between the Pi and the RF portion. Is there a STANDARD for the USB tuners? I looked at it a bit here a while back and it seems that TBS did have an API, but not all units supported all of the functions. Now, could we come up with an USB to PCI(e) interface, that would allow us to use cards rather than USB receivers?

Block two (2):

I am assuming that we would use Rasbian (sp?) version of Linux for the OS. Or, maybe even the XBMC version, so as to not be totally reinventing the wheel.

The software portion is going to have to communicate with the RF portion in order to control it and take the output and process it as needed. Those needs are going to be defined by the wish list, but the primary is going to be to deliver the digital signal to the decoder (which could be XBMC (whatever its new name is)).

I think we should keep the Unix philosophy of do one thing and do it well, deeply in mind in the design phase.

UpDateLee has done a lot of work and we could probably either get him involved or utilize some of his code for a great starting point. His stuff now requires that one recompile the Kernel, which isn't that hard, but turns a lot of people off. I think we should do our best to live with a stock kernel, so as to keep more people interested in the project.


All the above is intended to help move the project forward, and are entirely my thoughts. We can use it as starting point to get things better defined, throw it out or whatever the group decides.

I think we should keep it simple as possible, so as to not exclude users that might not want to get their hands dirty.


Smt is not very hard to prototype for those with good eyesite and a good magnification setup. I have done a few projects using the software and techniques in this link. I'm sure by now there may be better methods I am not aware of.
The basics:
http://www.robotroom.com/PCB.html
SMT (The author's soldering skills could use some improvement)
http://www.robotroom.com/PCB3.html
 
I would like to see the addition of an ATSC tuner as well, and PVR function, with space in the case for a SATA hard drive. The best of both worlds in a single STB would be great. Maybe even the ability to record to a DVD-R and play DVD/Blu-ray via USB? Have you looked at the Banana PI http://www.bananapi.org/ It has a built in SATA and built in IR... Or there is also an add-on card for the Raspberry Pi that will add Wifi, bluetooth, IR sensor, SATA, real-time clock, usb hub, and more: http://www.suptronics.com/Xseries/x300.html

I was thinking the bluetooth could be useful for headphones, speakers, iOS/Android control, keyboard for editing channels, etc.
 
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Anyone used this software? http://openelec.tv/ OpenElec with XBMC might be an interesting route to explore. OpenElec supports many tuners. I see mention of working with Crazycat software.

http://www.solid-run.com/product/cubox-i4pro/ An interesting quad core platform to look at, but @ $135??? Looks like some chatter about PCIe, but I haven't looked over the specs.

Anyone have specs on the raspberry touch screen that was announced for "soon" release? My thoughts are that a 3.5" touch screen is too small and maybe a 7" would be a good position for value, real estate and function? Several developers have 7" screens and seems to be some touch panel support and drivers.

Maybe the hardware remote control requests could either use the RCU units that are usually supplied with cards and USB tuners or a programmable touchscreen remote? USB IR receiver?
 
I would assume that you would need to use a USB tuner, and if we wanted this project to succeed we would need to pick one that is the best so that everyone is on the same page hardware wise for a receiver....
A USB tuner makes the most sense to me too. A PCIe tuner would be much harder and more expensive to implement.

Receiver Control: Smartphone via WiFi. Would need a server program running on the Pi 2 and an Android or iOS client on the phone/tablet.

AV Output: Offer both HDMI and IPTV
 
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And you can distribute and install android phone software without using the playstore to cut down on the hassle factor during development using apk files.
 
Anyone used this software? http://openelec.tv/ OpenElec with XBMC might be an interesting route to explore. OpenElec supports many tuners. I see mention of working with Crazycat software.

http://www.solid-run.com/product/cubox-i4pro/ An interesting quad core platform to look at, but @ $135??? Looks like some chatter about PCIe, but I haven't looked over the specs.

Anyone have specs on the raspberry touch screen that was announced for "soon" release? My thoughts are that a 3.5" touch screen is too small and maybe a 7" would be a good position for value, real estate and function? Several developers have 7" screens and seems to be some touch panel support and drivers.

Maybe the hardware remote control requests could either use the RCU units that are usually supplied with cards and USB tuners or a programmable touchscreen remote? USB IR receiver?

I'm using Openelec for OTA (HDHomerun). Started with the Raspberry Pi, using Win7 WMC and ServerWMC system for backend recording. Then bought a Asus Chromebox on sale, made it into a dual boot system (ChromeOS and Openelec - you can replace ChromeOS altogether). Using it as a front (XBMC) and backend (Tvheadend server - included in the Openelec package). Tvheadend not as easy to setup, but doable.

Here's 7" touch screen:
http://www.sainsmart.com/7-inch-tft...i-touch-screen-driver-board-hdmi-vga-2av.html
 
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how about remote control via hdmi-cec? it's already on openelec and raspbmc. Or am I wrong assuming it's on most tvs?
alternatively you could use an IR LED,LIRC and any old remote
 
HDMI-CEC IR support would be interesting. A Google search yields that there seems to be many issues with the implementation of the protocol between devices. Mapping beyond basic buttons would certainly be a challenge, but I am sure one of you is up to the task! :)

There are several Raspberry remote controls (simple to full featured with IR USB or RF based receivers and drivers. A hardware remote control should not be a problem.

An RPi 2 with RTC module (Real Time Clock) and a 7" touchscreen are in transit! :clapping

Raspberry: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261698200759
RTC Module: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261568075495
7" TRT w/Touch: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201268423312
 
HDMI-CEC IR support would be interesting. A Google search yields that there seems to be many issues with the implementation of the protocol between devices. Mapping beyond basic buttons would certainly be a challenge, but I am sure one of you is up to the task! :)

There are several Raspberry remote controls (simple to full featured with IR USB or RF based receivers and drivers. A hardware remote control should not be a problem.

An RPi 2 with RTC module (Real Time Clock) and a 7" touchscreen are in transit! :clapping

Raspberry: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261698200759
RTC Module: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261568075495
7" TRT w/Touch: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201268423312
This is the remote I'm using with my Raspberry Pi: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171524638882
 
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The RPI has a few issues in this regard. The Ethernet is actually a built in USB Ethernet adapter. Meaning all the USB ports and the Ethernet share the same bandwidth. So steaming from a USB dvb device would cut the bandwidth in half. The Ethernet is only 100mbit which as we all know theory = about 50% real life. So that's right for many transponders. The other issue is that many people have reported the USB is pretty slow. Which could be an additional bottle neck.

I'm currently on course till the end of March. Once I get home Its defn in my plans to give it a go.

They are supposed to be developing a screen as well, this really interests me for a portable spectrum analyzer / transport steam analyzer! Super handy for aiming

UDL
 
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Thanks for checking in Updatelee. Didn't realize about the shared USB Ethernet bandwidth. That would be a potential bottleneck on a fat transponder.

Could Updatedvd program be HID via touch screen?
 
The RPI has a few issues in this regard. The Ethernet is actually a built in USB Ethernet adapter. Meaning all the USB ports and the Ethernet share the same bandwidth. So steaming from a USB dvb device would cut the bandwidth in half. The Ethernet is only 100mbit which as we all know theory = about 50% real life. So that's right for many transponders. The other issue is that many people have reported the USB is pretty slow. Which could be an additional bottle neck.

I'm currently on course till the end of March. Once I get home Its defn in my plans to give it a go.

They are supposed to be developing a screen as well, this really interests me for a portable spectrum analyzer / transport steam analyzer! Super handy for aiming

UDL

I have been doing some tinkering/development with the Raspberry Pi for a while now and just want to share some observances.
The Raspberry Pi is an entry level development platform. It's sole purpose is to get people into computing/Linux/development that would otherwise never be able to afford to. UDL mentioned above just one of many "Walls" that you will eventually hit with this platform.
Given that I agree 100% that this is the perfect platform for this type of project.

When I started tinkering with SDR, I started on the PI Model B. It was a cheap enough platform that if I did not continue further with the project, there was no big loss of cash. As I began with more sophisticated and resource intensive projects, I realized I liked what I saw and wanted to go further with SDR than the PI would allow me to. What you will find with this project is the PI will be great for development and some basic functionality or portability and that is where some people will stop and be satisfied. Others will want every last piece of whiz-bangery possible and will hit the "wall" mentioned above.

I have projects that remained "in production" on the PI and others that needed beefier machines. PI projects for me were easily and directly ported to beefier hardware. So to me the beauty of the PI is a least twofold.

1. Low entry costs allow more participants in the project.
2. "Standard architecture" allows direct porting or upgrading to "deluxe" hardware when the user has increased interest.

Let me expand on point #2. I was tinkering with streaming Radio, FM, Weather or whatever over the network.
The Pi was great for ADSB serving, but for radio, not so much. This is where I discovered the mini ITX platform. What a great form factor for STBs and such. I built a system with a dual core 3.5 GHZ processor, 250GB SSD Drive, 4GB Ram (expandable to some ungodly amount), Single PCI slot, HDMI out etc...etc... I just loaded the same Debian Wheezy as the PI on this beast. The software installation processes developed on the PI ported over to this new platform directly. Look on Amazon and you will find all kinds of neat cases for ITX, especially STB types. You will find different configurations of ITX motherboards too.

To summarize, The PI is the perfect platform for this project allowing low barriers to entry and easy avenues for upgrading to more advanced hardware platforms.
 
For those that can find it, I don't what news stands carry it in the U.S., Linux Voice, 012, March 2015 issue, has a tutorial on OpenElec, at page 84. Their website may list where it is available in the U.S. and Canada, linuxvoice.com.

From the article, it does sound interesting, and the plugin route might make for an easy way to interface in. The hardware limitation mentioned by updatelee above, however may cause some grief.

Now, just thinking out loud, but what about repurposing an old laptop? Most all of them have almost everything you would want and need. They can be had for a reasonable price if you shop carefully, but usually no where near the Pi price.
 
Funny, I was looking at the same one and trying to figure out which processor to pair. Excellent path to 4K!

I have a few cases just waiting!

atsa00000.jpg
 
I couldn't agree more. At 6.7 x 6.7 inches, it would fit easily in an AV cabinet.

Here is a mini ITX motherboard with USB 3.0 and PCI Express! http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/AM1IA/

I should get one of these for my TBS6983 project.

Get a solid state drive for the operating system. My jaw dropped in amazement when I went from pressing the power button to full boot in about 2 seconds! You can use a conventional sata drive for PVR mass storage if needed. I'm hooked on ssd's.
 
Just a few random comments on this thread from someone who is not a hardware builder:

I like the general idea of using a small, low cost, low power board for this purpose but I suspect that the Raspberry Pi 2 may not be the best platform. Updatelee has pointed out the problems in posts #31 and #32 in this thread. People should realize that there are MANY small computers out there. A Reddit user recently posted a Google Docs spreadsheet of Multicore ARM dev boards, $100 and below and it is amazing just how many there are. Several have arguably better specs than the Pi 2. Another device that has piqued my interest a bit is the soon to be available Fitlet (PC World review), though I'm still not clear what the final price will be on it.

If the device is to function primarily as a receiver/STB I would definitely want the ability to play 4:2:2. On the other hand, if it is to function as a PVR, then my wish would be for a well supported repository that allows doing seamless upgrades, without having to go through any extra steps that Linux guys don't blink an eye at but that frustrate other users, like having to go through a bunch of steps to install tuner drivers.

Regarding USB vs. PCIe for tuners - even if you don't mind having extra boxes for tuners and having to decide how you are going to plug in those cube power supplies, having external tuners is just plain messy if you have more than one. And the problem is that most USB devices only have a single tuner. If you look you might find a dual but that's as high as it goes. Whereas, you can easily buy a quad tuner PCIe card, and it's contained within the case so no messy external stuff to deal with. Many of us are running dual tuner LNB's and multiple dishes and we need tuners to connect all those LNB inputs to.

Now just as a digression, the one thing that could change everything would be if anyone ever develops an LNB that basically functions like a HDHomeRun device, except the streams it sends are from satellite, not OTA. The idea would be you'd run a single Cat 5e or Cat 6 underground cable to each LNB, and the LNB itself would be able to tune both polarities and on request send one or multiple streams down the network cable, and then a backend program or media player anywhere on the network could select a desired stream (channel), similar to a HDHomeRun dual paired with MythTV or TVHeadEnd. That would eliminate the need for separate tuners altogether and have the advantage that there would be no signal loss before the signal is converted to a digital stream. And you could put a ridiculous number of "tuners" in each LNB, so that you could stream a number of channels simultaneously (from either polarity and from multiple transponders) down the network cable - you would not have the expense of running a separate RG-6 cable for each tuner, and you would not have signal losses on longer runs. In fact you could put a dish hundreds of feet away from the receivers if you used an optical (fiber) converter at each end and ran fiber optic cable; you'd just need a power source near the dish to run the fiber converter at that end, and in any case you'd need a way to power the LNB's. And just as a backend system can utilize multiple HDHomeRun devices, it should be able to deal with multiple networked LNBs.

Even though no such system exists today (as far as I'm aware), I wonder if it could be approximated by putting something like a Raspberry Pi 2 (or other single board computer) and dual USB tuner at the dish itself in a weathertight enclosure. Once again you'd only need to run cat 5e underground cable, and a pair of wires to provide DC power to the Raspberry PI 2 or whatever you use. The small computer would power the USB tuner which would in turn power the dual output LNB. Then you could run software on the Pi 2 or whatever small computer you use that would do all the tuning and convert the output to a stream usable by any PVR program, such as MythTV or TVHeadEnd, or a media player such as Kodi or VLC. Though I personally wouldn't have a clue how to put something like that together (mainly because I would not have any idea what software would need to be used), the idea of having a digital stream come right from the dish itself would be quite appealing to me. I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, though.

And finally, I don't think many of you guys would care much for OpenElec, because despite the name, it's really not very open. They really don't want you running anything other than OpenElec and its included software so they don't give you basic tools found on most other Linux-based systems. IMHO they should have called it ClosedElec because from a user's point of view, it's a pretty closed system. I realize the "Open" part might refer to it being open source (not sure about that either) but it will definitely make your life more difficult if you want to do any tweaking. I've opted to use RaspBMC (now to be called OSMC) for that very reason. I know OpenElec is more popular but I didn't like it and I'm not anywhere near into Linux the way some of you guys appear to be. But then again, it's possible there's a secret "developer mode" or something that I didn't find; I gave up on it after about an hour.

P.S. It occurred to me after I posted this that another advantage to having a computer and tuner at the dish would be that you'd only need to open the weatherproof enclosure to gain access to the HDMI and audio outputs, and the USB ports. So you could have a "peaking mode" where if you connect a small speaker or headphones, it would play an audible tone that rises of falls depending on signal strength, whereas if you connected a small video monitor (and maybe a keyboard or mouse to enable making selections), it would show more detail about the strength and quality of the signal being received, right at the dish. So you would not need an external signal strength meter or anything of that nature, you would just need the software that supports the "peaking mode".
 
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Now just as a digression, the one thing that could change everything would be if anyone ever develops an LNB that basically functions like a HDHomeRun device, except the streams it sends are from satellite, not OTA. The idea would be you'd run a single Cat 5e or Cat 6 underground cable to each LNB, and the LNB itself would be able to tune both polarities and on request send one or multiple streams down the network cable,

This does exist, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sat-IP

This is the protocol used by the receivers that support streaming to an android device with ALi Big2Small or Amiko Streamer apps installed. The A3 does it, X2 premium III does it, and I'm sure there are more receivers that can serve a Sat>IP stream. There are also LNBs with ethernet ports on them which directly serve the streams as well.
 
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