Homemade Superdish problem

[karthiks]

Hello all, forgive the newbie questions. I am trying to add a homemade superdish to a multi-dish installation. Many thanks to Claude on the switch recommendations and sharing his experiences so far.

Doing standalone testing with a 39" Primestar, a 3x4 zinwell switch to combine the H and V outputs and an upgraded 4900, I'm getting weird results.

I'm pretty sure I'm aiming the dish correctly and am picking up meter signals on the inline meter I'm using, the weird part is I seem to only be getting signals of the even numbered transponders. Nothing on the odd ones. Even clicking the superdish 129 checkbox and running the tests, I'm not getting anything detected. The 4900 is showing no signal, though the inline meter is.

Would I have a dead LNBF? I've tried the rotation through the polarity adjustments and still nothing.

I'm sure the 4900 is alive as I plug it into a separate setup with the dish 500/300 setup and it works fine. I've got a spare SW64 I've tried as well and no luck with that and the dish either.

Only weird thing is that the Zinwell 3x4 has a diplexer capability and I'm not using one on the IRD side. But not using any diplexed signal either.

Any suggestions?

 

[SimpleSimon]

I suspect the Zinwell switch is not compatible with E* setups. You say it combines the outputs. I assume you mean it stacks them. E* band-stacking (DishPro) is NOT the same as other stackers I've heard about. DP uses 950-1450 and 1650-2150MHz, with the even transponders on the high band, which is a different range than "normal".

You do not say that what you're using to tie the Dish 500 to the FSS LNBF. I'll assume it's a SW64, and the Dish 500 is a Legacy (no DP logo) Quad or a pair of Legacy Duals.

I'm assuming that, because it's the only setup that has any chance of working.

The FSS LNBF has to have dual outputs - one for port 3A the other for 3B. Sorry, I forget which has to be H vs. V.

Finally, you say you're trying to ADD the FSS to an existing multi-dish, but you don't tell us what the existing setup is. That makes life hard.

 

[bcshields]

If the switch is stacking the signals, and you're using a 4900... do you have a dishpro adapter?

 

[karthiks]

I suspect the Zinwell switch is not compatible with E* setups. You say it combines the outputs. I assume you mean it stacks them. E* band-stacking (DishPro) is NOT the same as other stackers I've heard about. DP uses 950-1450 and 1650-2150MHz, with the even transponders on the high band, which is a different range than "normal".

You do not say that what you're using to tie the Dish 500 to the FSS LNBF. I'll assume it's a SW64, and the Dish 500 is a Legacy (no DP logo) Quad or a pair of Legacy Duals.

I'm assuming that, because it's the only setup that has any chance of working.

The FSS LNBF has to have dual outputs - one for port 3A the other for 3B. Sorry, I forget which has to be H vs. V.

Finally, you say you're trying to ADD the FSS to an existing multi-dish, but you don't tell us what the existing setup is. That makes life hard.

Sorry, the setup is all legacy for existing, no dishpro here.

Separately, I've got the following:

Legacy dual twin LNB Dish 500 for 110 and 119
Legacy dual LNB Dish 300 for 61.5
SW64
Legacy 4000
Legacy 4900


In addition, this is the extra setup I've been running with (not connected at all to the running setup but is my test bench)

Primestar dish with H/V LNB
Legacy 4900 (another one for testing)
Legacy 4000 (another one for testing)
Extra SW64 for testing
Zinwell 3x4 with built in diplexer
SF95 inline signal meter

I've been trying to get a signal on the test bench before integrating this with the working setup (I know I'll need to get rid of the 4000's but wanted to get this working first).

I've tried the setup through the zinwell for signal combining of the H/V inputs to the 4900 directly (no Dishpro) with the signal meter. The meter tells me I'm getting signal on the even transponders but nada on the odd's. The 4900 (swapped it out too) is not seeing the signal. I did the superdish check test and the check switch bit on the 50 tests.

I tried the setup with the SW64 instead of the Zinwell, but am wonder as there's nothing else on the switch other than the primestar, if I'd get anything. By the way, no signal was detected with the SW64 connected.

 

[karthiks]

If the switch is stacking the signals, and you're using a 4900... do you have a dishpro adapter?

No dishpro, I'm all legacy here.

I'm using the 3x4 to combine the H/V LNB signals to a 13/18 recognizable signal first for establishing this works before I do the SW21 bit and combine it in to the rest of the system.

 

[Mr Tony]

Here's what you do

I'm assuming you have a Dish500 Legacy and a 4900. Is it the only receiver you are going to use?

If so...
-Hook the H&V lines from the Primestar dish to the switch (Zincwell)
-run the output DIRECTLY to the receiver and go into install menu
-get signal
-then unhook it from the receiver and hook everything up like you're suppose to.

Then run switch test

 

[karthiks]

Here's what you do

I'm assuming you have a Dish500 Legacy and a 4900. Is it the only receiver you are going to use?

If so...
-Hook the H&V lines from the Primestar dish to the switch (Zincwell)
-run the output DIRECTLY to the receiver and go into install menu
-get signal
-then unhook it from the receiver and hook everything up like you're suppose to.

Then run switch test

Thanks for the response Iceberg, yeah, that's what I was looking to do exactly. The weird part is no signal on the 4900, but the SM95 is showing a line signal, rolling through the transponders on the point signal menu, when I switch to even transponders, the meter gets a signal, odds are flat and nothing on the bar graph on the 4900 (tried a different 4900 and 4000 for kicks).

I was planning to do the rest exactly as you mentioned, I'm wondering if I've got a dud for the LNB. I've swapped cables between the LNB and zinwell to see if that was the issue, but same responses. It's odd. Once signal is there, I'm pretty cool on what to do.

 

[Chuckster]

The older model Dish recievers are not capable of recognizing 4 satellite locations.This could be the problem,are part of the problem? I can't off hand remember if the 4900 is one of these models though,sorry.

 

[SimpleSimon]

AH! I am wrong about what the Zincwell switch does. This is good! Happy to be wrong.

So, if someone can educate me, the P* FSS LNBF has one output locked to H and the other locked to V? Assuming that's true, the Zincwell then responds to 13/18V changes and gives the appropriate H or V input?

I do NOT know what the P* LNBF requires for power (how much and which port - or either). So, something might have to be done there. Again, please educate me.

Anyway, for testing, I would start by hooking one of the FSS LNBF outputs directly to the 4900 and seeing what you get, then the other. Of course, you'll get half the tps each time. This will verify that the LNBF is good.

Finally, it seems to me that the P* LNBF should plug right in to a pair of SW64 inputs. Yes?

I'd really like to learn more about this setup to add to our switching knowledge.

 

[karthiks]

The older model Dish recievers are not capable of recognizing 4 satellite locations.This could be the problem,are part of the problem? I can't off hand remember if the 4900 is one of these models though,sorry.

I believe you're correct. This is the 4900 that should be able to do it. I was planning on replacing my 61.5 Dish 300 with this unit once I got it operational.

 

[karthiks]

AH! I am wrong about what the Zincwell switch does. This is good! Happy to be wrong.

So, if someone can educate me, the P* FSS LNBF has one output locked to H and the other locked to V? Assuming that's true, the Zincwell then responds to 13/18V changes and gives the appropriate H or V input?

I do NOT know what the P* LNBF requires for power (how much and which port - or either). So, something might have to be done there. Again, please educate me.

Anyway, for testing, I would start by hooking one of the FSS LNBF outputs directly to the 4900 and seeing what you get, then the other. Of course, you'll get half the tps each time. This will verify that the LNBF is good.

Finally, it seems to me that the P* LNBF should plug right in to a pair of SW64 inputs. Yes?

I'd really like to learn more about this setup to add to our switching knowledge.

I believe that's what the zinwell is doing. I pinged Claude on his experiences and this is what he used to get his setup going.

It would be ideal for myself as well, but I'm not getting to the signal stage by using the switch or a direct connect of the IRD to the H or V ports. I added the inline signal meter to make sure I wasn't going bonkers. I have the elevation and azimuth right and was getting a signal on the metter, but only when the IRD had 121 and an even numbered transponder going.

I only got that with the switch in place, got no signal on the meter from connecting to H or V directly. The IRD never shows signal on the signal bar which is also weird. Tried another 4900 I have and that is ditto for same results.

I'm sure that upon getting signal, the rest will be easy. I have to wonder if I have a dud for an LNB.

 

[Pepper]

have you tried swapping which input on the switch gets the H and V inputs?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Hmm. Dunno karthiks. Sounds pretty strange to me. Wish I knew more about that style of LNBF.

 

[karthiks]

have you tried swapping which input on the switch gets the H and V inputs?

Yes, then I end up getting nothing consistently. It's a tough one for sure. I'm scrounging around to see if I can get another LNB for testing.

 

[karthiks]

Hmm. Dunno karthiks. Sounds pretty strange to me. Wish I knew more about that style of LNBF.

Yes, me too. I tried the channelmaster/andrews folks and they don't have any details as it used to all be oem documentation owned by the primestar folks.

I did get a manual with the dish, but it was more directions on aiming for 91w back then.

Guess the experimentation goes on.

 

[dishMIKE]

I'm sure no expert, and I have tried to read all of your posts karthiks, but are you for sure pointing at 121 and not G10r at 123 ? If that was the case would your signal meter register, but wouldn't show a signal from 121 on your 4900? Sure hope you get your system up and going. Good Luck!!! Mike

 

[karthiks]

I'm sure no expert, and I have tried to read all of your posts karthiks, but are you for sure pointing at 121 and not G10r at 123 ? If that was the case would your signal meter register, but wouldn't show a signal from 121 on your 4900? Sure hope you get your system up and going. Good Luck!!! Mike

That could be the case, I'll check again when it stops raining out. I aimed for 119 and went a few degrees higher. I could have overshot.

It's definitely worth a recheck.

 

[dishrich]

have you tried swapping which input on the switch gets the H and V inputs?

When I tried MY experiment with a P* dish @ 105, I could only get 1 side of the x-ponders. Swapped the H/V outputs on the P* & I then got BOTH. I had never read anyone else having this problem & I tried the same thing on a couple different 3x4 switches & in both cases, it DID make a difference on how the P* LNB was connected to the 3x4.

 

[karthiks]

When I tried MY experiment with a P* dish @ 105, I could only get 1 side of the x-ponders. Swapped the H/V outputs on the P* & I then got BOTH. I had never read anyone else having this problem & I tried the same thing on a couple different 3x4 switches & in both cases, it DID make a difference on how the P* LNB was connected to the 3x4.

Yeah, I tried that and got nothing at all for signal or for any transponders.

I repointed to 105 to see if there was any difference, trying a new LNB shortly to see if it makes a difference. I'm leaning toward the fact that I have a dud based on behaviors. The new LNB will be the test.

 

[karthiks]

Got it, thanks everyone, new software didn't hurt either.

Got the situation solved.

It was part elevation markings inaccurate on the old dish and it was a dead LNB after all.

I went with a new FSS dual LNB with built in odd/even management. It was a direct replacement for the old H/V LNB on there. I'd recommend it for those that want to use an old primestar dish too.

Thanks to all for the suggestions, legacy hardware rides again