Hopper DRM - Can't play archived shows?

voripteth

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Oct 20, 2005
306
3
Aurora, IL
I just got upgraded to a Hopper from a 722k. I also had an external disk where I had archived many movies. Now, when I try to play a movie recorded from Epix I get a message about not being subscribed to that channel! :eek:

I started a chat session with Dish who didn't think the DVR was supposed to work that way. They suggested I reboot the DVR which didn't help. They also suggested to wait 24 hours for updates to be pushed.

Is this normal behavior for the Hopper? (I'm nearly positive the 722 didn't do that.)
 
This has been an issue for the Hopper since day 1. This issue has also been present on the 922 for a long time now (Hopper software is based off of the 922.)

So either it's intentional or Dish just doesn't care to fix it.
 
I sent an email to technical support asking for clarification if this was a bug or new enforcement of DRM. I'll post their reply to this thread.
 
This has been an issue for the Hopper since day 1. This issue has also been present on the 922 for a long time now (Hopper software is based off of the 922.)

So either it's intentional or Dish just doesn't care to fix it.

I have no problems playing any of my EHD archived movies from channels I no longer subscribe to on my 922??? 99% of what I have recorded on two EHD's are from movie channels I no longer have. This is one of the reasons I haven't made the move to Hopper/Joey yet.
 
I would suspect that going forward this is something that will happen to all dvrs. The existing older models in the field may stay the same and the new models will behave this way. I've been expecting them to impliment this sort of thing for awhile now. When you subscribe to a channel you rent the shows on it so to speak. When you cease to rent that channel your license for those shows from that channel is revoked. Dvrs were never meant to be archival devices only time shifting devices. When this was first reported with the hopper it was HBO and Cinemax I believe. They were the first channels to activate and use HDCP encryption. It could be that the hopper is not handling this encryption properly for programs recorded before the encryption flag went active. So perhaps its a software bug that will be fixed. But, this could be the start of companies like HBO enforcing their IP rights as well. Lets hope not.
 
Subscription NOT required to view archived shows - Hopper bug!

I just had a very interesting chat with advanced tech support at dish. They claim this is a bug in the Hopper which will be fixed in the next major release. (Expected within a week.) Here is the chat transcript:

Mike Bryant: I just upgraded to a Hopper and I'm now having trouble playing shows I previously archived to an external HD from my 722k. One of my archived movies was recorded from Epix which I no longer subscribe to. The Hopper says I need to subscribe to that channel to view the archived recording. This was not the case with the 722k. Is this a bug in the Hopper or a change in the way Dish handles DRM? (Other archived shows play just fine from the external HD.)
Jennifer (ID: S6T): I’m sorry to hear that you are having an issue viewing content from an External Hard Drive. I’d be happy to assist you with that, Mike.
Mike Bryant: To clarify, my question is about the enforcement of DRM rather than the external drive.
Jennifer (ID: S6T): I understand.
Jennifer (ID: S6T): Please give me a moment to research this for you.
Jennifer (ID: S6T): Thank you for your patience, I have verified the issue you are experiencing is a known issue with our current Hopper software. We will be resolving this soon with a software update. I apologize for the inconvenience and frustration this may cause you.
Mike Bryant: So does this mean that I will be able to view archived programs even if I no longer subscribe to the channel?
Jennifer (ID: S6T): Correct, you will have access to them. However, do to a current software issue this feature isn't working. With a software update, you will have access to them again.
Mike Bryant: What is the ETA for this feature being fixed? I believe this issue has been around for a while and other patches have since been released.
Jennifer (ID: S6T): Correct, this issue has been an on going issue for us since shortly after the release of the Hopper. This is supposed to be resolved on our next major software update.
Mike Bryant: Good to know. Any general estimate on when that will be released?
Jennifer (ID: S6T): The date for that update is not yet set. We are hoping for next week at this time.
Mike Bryant: Wonderful! I'll spread the good news to the forums!
Jennifer (ID: S6T): Great! Thank you for your patience, Mike.
 
I have no problems playing any of my EHD archived movies from channels I no longer subscribe to on my 922??? 99% of what I have recorded on two EHD's are from movie channels I no longer have. This is one of the reasons I haven't made the move to Hopper/Joey yet.

Just like with the Hopper, this issue occurs with some people, and other people don't have the issue. I have recordings that work from channels that I'm no longer subscribed to, while others that are from channels I am no longer subscribed to no longer work.

I would suspect that going forward this is something that will happen to all dvrs. The existing older models in the field may stay the same and the new models will behave this way. I've been expecting them to impliment this sort of thing for awhile now. When you subscribe to a channel you rent the shows on it so to speak. When you cease to rent that channel your license for those shows from that channel is revoked. Dvrs were never meant to be archival devices only time shifting devices. When this was first reported with the hopper it was HBO and Cinemax I believe. They were the first channels to activate and use HDCP encryption. It could be that the hopper is not handling this encryption properly for programs recorded before the encryption flag went active. So perhaps its a software bug that will be fixed. But, this could be the start of companies like HBO enforcing their IP rights as well. Lets hope not.


Funny thing about it is, I have recordings from HBO/Cinemax that work just fine (do not subscribe to them currently.) Whereas recordings from MAVTV cease to work unless I am subscribed.
 
I sure hope it turns out not to be DRM. It just seems like the sort of thing the content providers would be slavering over implementing.
 
My thinking is, it's not a bug, because if there weren't plans to implement it, the capability would never have been put in the code in the first place.
 
Well my situation is even better. I have 278 recordings on my basement hopper and it gives the same subscription error message on every program I try to play. On top of that message another one pops up that says event playback completed, even though I selected start over. Already called Dish and they have a report in on it and said I may get a call back in 48 hours. I am not happy.
 
My thinking is, it's not a bug, because if there weren't plans to implement it, the capability would never have been put in the code in the first place.

It think it is a bug. That code is needed for PPV rentals, not normal movies.

I'm glad that Dish agrees it is a bug. Now to see if they follow through on the fix on the next week.
 
Thanks, Vor- I certainly would not upgrade to H/J if I were to lose access to my recordings. Actually, I have very few from HBO freeviews, but some.

Let's see,
- viewing stored programs from non-subscribed channels
- no manual timers at the STB
- EHD issues
- no OTA
- stability issues

Man, I gotta start a list of things needing correction before I make the move. Oh, right - someone has already done it for me! Now, gee, who might that have been? ;)
 
Thanks, Vor- I certainly would not upgrade to H/J if I were to lose access to my recordings. Actually, I have very few from HBO freeviews, but some.

Let's see,
- viewing stored programs from non-subscribed channels
- no manual timers at the STB
- EHD issues
- no OTA
- stability issues

Man, I gotta start a list of things needing correction before I make the move. Oh, right - someone has already done it for me! Now, gee, who might that have been? ;)

I have had no more EHD issues (none) nor any more stability issues with my H/Js than I did with my 722Ks.

None of my HBO recordings (do not subscribe to HBO at the moment) have these "DRM" issues.

OTA is coming "soon." Meanwhile I just tune from the TV or use sat/PTAT to record most ota programs.

Manual timers, can do the few I need from DRA/DO, but H/J REALLY need it on the STB.

--

As for the wish list you linked to :-

I do miss the Start Over button, but it's not really that hard to find the recording you're currently playing (has a "Play" icon on the thumbnail/listing, just like the 722Ks had one.)

Alternate times were never shown on the 722K "conflict" screen either.

The fact that Hopper can use multiple EHDs at once pretty much negates the "inconvenience" of having to press 3 buttons to access the EHD again.

Not sure about the folders on the EHD, never really used custom folders then or now. However "Folders by Title" works just fine on the EHDs on Hopper just as it did on the 722Ks.

Tables. 722K never had tables either. Plus, the fact that the 722K interface was "pseudo-HD," it didn't have any more room for text than Hopper, even with Hopper's "thumbnail" interface.

PTAT-related feature request. Well, no need to explain that one.

USB keyboard. Not on 722K (other than GoogleTV.)

--

Advantages of H/J over ViP series (922 might have a few mentioned) :-

HD on TV2 (or TV3 or TV4.)

Record 3 satellite channels at once (or 9 counting the other 2 Hoppers that can be integrated using a Joey.)

Connect to any of the other 2 Hoppers in the house and view recordings from the comfort of my La-Z-Boy without having to mirror outputs and use separate remotes.

Modify timers of any of the 3 Hoppers in the house using a single Joey all from the comfort of my La-Z-Boy.

More internal HDD space (1TB user-accessible internal space per Hopper vs 250GB user-accessible internal space per non-922/622 ViP, 622 has even less, 922 has more than 722/612 series however it is still less than Hopper.)

PiP + TV2 (or 3 or 4.)

DLNA.

Better Weather Channel App.

Use a Joey wirelessly anywhere in the house without the need for a coax connection.

Use a Joey via Ethernet without the need for a coax connection.

Search not only the Program Guide but also any of the recordings on the Hopper and it's connected EHDs.

Use the Sling Adapter without having to interrupt TV2.

Use the Sling Adapter without using a tuner (while watching a recording.)

Use the Sling Adapter while using a tuner, and still have 2 tuners remaining.

Connect multiple EHDs (already mentioned.)

True HD interface with channel logos.

Reset Joey at TV2 (or TV3 or TV4) without interrupting the Hopper.

Have a smaller footprint due to the Hopper's smaller size.

Do not need a separator, so less ugly wires sticking out.

Use composite connections on TV2 (or TV3 or TV4) without having to run long wires.

Cheaper receiver fees for 3 or more HDTVs (for 3 it is $24 vs $26 at minimum using ViP 612s. Utilizing 3 Hoppers you get 9 tuners vs 6 for ViPs for 3 TVs. Can also just get 2 Hoppers and 1 Joey for 6 vs 6.) It gets kinda complicated with even more receivers, ViPs could outdo the number of tuners once you get 5 or more ViPs, but then the $10-$17 receiver fees start to get ridiculous. I have 3H/2J, 9 sharable tuners, sharable timers at Joey locations (keep in mind, Joey can be transported using Ethernet/MoCA/wireless) 5 TVs 1-9 tuners per TV ("more" counting PTAT.) Receiver fees are $10 + $7 + $7 + $7 + $7 = $38. Compare this to the Dual-Tuners, which can only have 2 tuners max per TV, no sharable timers, however there are technically 10 tuners total. Receiver fees are $6 + $10 + $10 + $10 + $10 = $46 I would compare upfront receiver costs as well which are cheaper when going with H/J for 5 TVs but it's getting too complicated.

--

Did I leave something out ;) ?
 
There is another type of show that used to play on the 722k that no longer plays on the hopper. These were recorded from an Adult channel and displays the message "This is not available in your area." Oddly enough there are a few archived movies from the same Adult channel that DO still play. I can't tell what is special about those few. Each of the shows was recorded from the same future date according to the on-screen info. 90% of the archived shows of this type are no longer playable.

Dish, can we please get a fix for these shows as well?
Thanks! ^_^
 
NO! They want you to buy more Porn instead. I have about 7 adult movies I bought from last summer on my hopper , recorded on my 722k. They all play, but I have to put the password in to see them ,because I locked out all adult channels.
 

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