OTHER How to Add FTA to Old C/Ku H2H System?

Discussion in 'FTA Receiver / Equipment Support' started by Old2New, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Old2New

    Old2New Topic Starter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    44.19°N 115.98°W 5 miles North of Crouch, Idaho)
    I am sure this question has been asked and answered many times. Perhaps, someone can point me to a relevant thread?

    I have C/Ku H2H system installed at remote central Idaho cabin that has not been utilized since the world went digital ~10 years ago (8' mesh dish, H2H mount, Toshiba TRX 2200 receiver / descrambler). I installed this system (my third successful installation), and it was reasonably well aligned and able to receive signals across entire American satellite arc.

    The question is can I simply add FTA receiver (1080 HD a must, and 4K not necessary), and which receiver would be recommended, or should I scrap this existing system and start over from scratch? Any equipment installation suggestions, diagrams / details would be appreciated!
     
  2. johnnynobody

    johnnynobody SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Posts:
    2,012
    Likes Received:
    130
    Location:
    42N 103W
    All you should need is a modern FTA receiver and a diseqc dish mover. I can't recommend anything because I haven't been real thrilled about the performance of the equipment that I've tried.
    If you're using LNB's you'll need a way to operate the polarizer switch (which your old receiver can do) or you can change out the LNB's with LNBF's and let the FTA receiver do the polarization changes.
     
  3. waylew

    waylew SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Posts:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    773
    Location:
    northern new york
    As long as the Toshiba still functions to move the dish and change polarity,and the LNBs are still working,just add a new DVB S2 receiver and away you go.The 8' dish may be a bit small for some signals but you won't know till you get up and running.Dish will likely need some maintenance and fine tuning but that's just part of the game.The VCII box needs to be removed from the Toshiba,it's worthless and can do serious damage if the battery leaks.
     
    Brct203 likes this.
  4. KE4EST

    KE4EST SatelliteGuys Is My Second Home
    Staff Member HERE TO HELP YOU!

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Posts:
    23,993
    Likes Received:
    4,291
    Location:
    EM75xb
    Welcome to SatelliteGuys Old2New!!!!
    Like was said above the the dish actuator and Toshiba still operate, you can use that to move the dish to get started. You will just need to invest in a new modern DVB-S2 receiver!
     
  5. VictoriaFTA

    VictoriaFTA Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2018
    Posts:
    14
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Midwest
    Skip the dedicated receivers if you want to be able to get everything out there. There is not a single pre-built receiver out there that can tune 4:2:2 MPEG-2 and 4:2:2 H.264, 10-bit H.264, 4K HEVC, and 4K 4:2:2 HEVC. Nor can any of them decode Dolby E audio. I don't believe any of these consumer boxes do 16APSK or 32APSK either so that will make you miss out on a lot of 4K feeds as well.

    You need to build your own PC-based receiver if you want to get everything these days. Do you actually live at this cabin location? Being able to control it remotely is another reason for a PC-based setup, there's nothing like being able to remote desktop or TeamViewer into a PC and control your dish while you're traveling so that you never miss anything.

    I see people constantly having to buy new receivers on these forums every time some new video advancement is rolled out and I just never have to do anything like that because when something changes in this world, instead of having to build an entirely new box I can just swap in a different tuner card if necessary, like with DVB-S2X, in time I'll add a new tuner that is capable of tuning these feeds.

    My current satellite receiver is an 8 year old PC I have down in the basement with TBS Professional tuners in it acting as a server. I do all of my tuning/scanning/recording on it remotely and then just connect to it via my network to watch anything it's tuned to on the device of my choice. When a feed pops up with some obscure new video or audio codec it's no problem to play it on my PC.
     
  6. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    506
    Likes Received:
    351
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I can certainly see the value of such setup (and am seriously considering getting the TBS card) and the reasons you mention are spot on, but on the other hand, it's not for everyone. It depends what people are looking for in an FTA system. Not everyone wants to bother with 16apsk (keep in mind that old2New has an 8' dish, so 16apsk might be a bit of a stretch). And the only card that I know that can do those modulation costs $300, plus you need a PC. Compare that to $100 for a good stable receiver that will still receive 95% of what's currently available FTA, and that is easy to use out of the box...
     
    phlatwound likes this.
  7. Cham

    Cham VE4GLS
    Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Posts:
    2,065
    Likes Received:
    611
    Location:
    Boonies
    Likely an Amiko HD265 receiver and then an ASC-1 positioner would work well to get back into FTA.
    Should work with your satellite dish actuator and automatically move the dish when you switch channels on the receiver using diseQc signals. Your analog receiver will work too, but you will have to manually change satellite positions. Just leave the motor wiring connected and switch the feedline over to the new receiver. Not a big issue really I did it for years, but it's really nice to have it work automatically. The ASC-1 does the corotor motor polarity if you have that sort of feed horn assembly, and it also can be set up for 18V for both polarities. (some LNBs don't like 14v vertical signal voltage that LNBFs use and all FTA receivers output). A diseQc switch can be used to choose C or Ku LNBs at the dish.
    The computer cards/USB receivers are awsome but can be reletively expensive and complex to set up. Might be a "next step" if you find you like FTA. Just a warning though... if you do really like the hobby you will end up with multiple dishes, lots of cabling, switches, receivers, computers, etc etc.. :)
     
  8. johnnynobody

    johnnynobody SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Posts:
    2,012
    Likes Received:
    130
    Location:
    42N 103W
    Yeah, I forgot to ask if you're using LNB's or LNBF's
    You're putting too much faith in a PC system. At some point either the software and/or the hardware will have to be upgraded to receive all of the available signals - that's just the nature of technology progressing. Just like STB's. You just can't get around spending money to keep up with technology. But, a PC system with a DVB card, large hard drive, and other hardware that is connected to the internet is more versatile/scalable than an STB. Now, if only there were better solutions for a Linux platform running on a PC.....
     
  9. Old2New

    Old2New Topic Starter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    44.19°N 115.98°W 5 miles North of Crouch, Idaho)
    Holy Cow! This sure is a lot to consider / grock!!! Let us determine best alternative for our situation.

    We are retired and spend ~4 nights / week at our off-grid (solar powered) cabin year around. Our source of internet access is via Verizon smart phone Hot Spot, so no remote internet access. Winter access is hampered by heavy snow and 1 mile of private, un-plowed, steep mountain side dirt "driveway", and we utilize Yamaha 4WD UTV with tracks (and full differential lock occasionally) from ~Thanksgiving - March. The deep snow prevents dish size >8', and our initial 11' dish was destroyed by heavy snow during its first winter.

    My initial goal is to augment the small local OTA repeater offering of local Boise CBS, NBC and ABC, so I am after PBS and FOX. My second goal is to replicate the local OTA repeater offering, as it is often unreliable with various channels off-line intermittently. This would meet the wife's minimum requirements, and enable me to spend more nights imaging in my dark sky observatory. Of course, more viewing options would be great.

    Purchase and installation of ~$100 DVB-S2 receiver is as affordable as I could hope for (e.g., Manhattan RC 1978, Manhattan 1978 FTA Receiver, Manhattan RC HD Receiver, ). Paying ~$100 / month to DIsh or DIrect TV is not within range of possibility!
     
  10. Old2New

    Old2New Topic Starter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    44.19°N 115.98°W 5 miles North of Crouch, Idaho)
    I neglected to mention that I am somewhat of computer nerd, as I utilize various open source software for observatory (e;g;, planetarium software for object location and alignment, quiding software for very precise object tracking, camera / filter wheel control software) and image processing. Interfacing these software and my various Optics / Cameras, Mount and H-ware is a full custom installation, and it is only possible on Windows!!!

    Hence, I am not averse to PC approach, but I am currently able to get by with a single lap top that travels between home and cabin.
     
    FTA4PA likes this.
  11. Cham

    Cham VE4GLS
    Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Posts:
    2,065
    Likes Received:
    611
    Location:
    Boonies
    Awsome! There are a few of us astro-geeks on the forum... :)
    The receiver you mention is up-to-date and should be fine. The HD265 I mentioned will play H265 non UHD video (MP5) which is still reletively rare. Either unit would be a good start and get you receiving something off your 8 footer. Just make sure the receiver will play MP4 video as most channels of interest are using this format now.
    NASA TV is nicely receivable off an 8 footer via the 127w satellite on C-band. Think these are H264 (MP4) . Just FYI..
     
  12. waylew

    waylew SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Posts:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    773
    Location:
    northern new york
    If you want to "play" get a pc card,if you "just wanna watch tv" the STB is the best.
     
    phlatwound likes this.
  13. Old2New

    Old2New Topic Starter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    44.19°N 115.98°W 5 miles North of Crouch, Idaho)
    I have decided to start with STB to meet goal of satisfying wife's viewing needs ASAP, and I had also decided to go with Chad's Amiko HD265 recommendation based on his warning to be prepared for multiple dishes, lots of cabling, switches, receivers, computers, etc etc.. And that was prior to his latest post on being fellow astro-geek.

    I am also intrigued by Waylew's comment regarding need for PC card "if you want to "play"", as I am not sure what this means. Is this referring to searching for the temporary feeds for sports / news broadcasts?
     
  14. KE4EST

    KE4EST SatelliteGuys Is My Second Home
    Staff Member HERE TO HELP YOU!

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Posts:
    23,993
    Likes Received:
    4,291
    Location:
    EM75xb
    FYI if all goes well I will have the HD265 restocked Wednesday or Thursday of this week. Pre-holidays are already slowing things down. :(
     
  15. waylew

    waylew SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Posts:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    773
    Location:
    northern new york
    Mainly that a PC card can do what a STB can and a whole lot more but of course you have to have the computer running to do it and have the tv hooked to the PC.Not the most user friendly when you just want to watch tv.
     
  16. mwdxer1

    mwdxer1 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Posts:
    387
    Likes Received:
    263
    Location:
    Seaside Oregon
    I did that years ago when analog started going away. I first bought the VC2, then 4DTV (905), and my first Mpeg 2 SD FTA receiver, followed that up with a Pansat 9000, then the Pansat 9500, which I still use. Lots of interesting stuff in digital. You never know what you may see. I just retired my old Maspro receiver and replaced it with a Uniden Supra, but it does the same, change polarity and move the dish.
     

Separate names with a comma.

More...