I'm PISSED. (need your help guys)

[Eric_C]

How can it be there "lack of bandwidth"?

Hardly anyone on here complains about HD PQ, is your box set to display more than 480p?

I had DTV for years, believe me, I understand lack of bandwidth, its insanely evident on even their SD channels.

I guess I'll have to get the camera and tripod out to take some pics of the TV

 

[ChetK]

How can it be there "lack of bandwidth"? Hardly anyone on here complains about HD PQ

How quickly we forget. See what I mean.

 

[gutter]

How can it be there "lack of bandwidth"?

Hardly anyone on here complains about HD PQ, TV

ARE YOU KIDDING? This forum has been loaded with threads from different customers about VOOM Quality. It is a never ending discussion and should be. I have a feeling you never viewed OTA HD from the networks like CBS and PBS? There is not comparison to quality. Chet is right. VOOM looks ok and slightly better than a DVD but true HD on a OTA will knock your socks off and cream your shorts. Even the Local OTA HD through the VOOM receiver do not look as good as through my Sammy STB. Motorola didn't learn anything when they took over General Instruments. GI were the guys who helped set the current HD standard where quality is important. Motorola can't even make a decent cell phone.

 

[occammd]

The only thing that looks close to OTA when I had voom was the 100 channel

 

[Eric_C]

Gutter,

I've had DTV HD on a Toshiba DST3000, OTA via Voom, that same Toshiba, and a Samsung 151T.

I've seen plenty of OTA HD, and of course CBS looks great, but considering that CBS is OTA on EVERYONES TV what kind of comparison is that?

Rave, EquatorHD, EncoreHD(deppending on the transfer), etc all look fantastic. If your complaining about the upscaling of certain channels thats the originator, not Voom in most cases.

BTW, see I did have a Sammy HD Reciever, over component, in 1080i.

But again, you CANNOT compare OTA to Voom HD, you can compare Voom HD to D* and E* HD, and I've had them, on the same TV, and find Voom to be on par across the board.

 

[Ilya]

Actually, I have reather enjoyed watching SD DVD's much more since I have subscribed to Voom.

Just the opposite for me. I reduced my DVD rental to minimum after switching to VOOM. (The only thing I miss is the extras). But in any case, what does it have to do with my statement that HD is way better than SD? I certainly wasn't talking about DVDs! I was talking about SD via satellite. These are two very different things to me. I think you are still missing my main point, that with D* or E* I would be forced to watch much more SD! Based, of course, on my personal preferences. May be you can watch the same 6-7 HD channels 99% of the time, but I can't. I want more choices:

- I want to be able to choose from more than a dozen of HD movies at any given time

- I want a dozen of premium HD channels to choose from

- I want to watch European soccer live, and the only way I can do it on D* is via PPV ($20 per game) and only in SD

- I want to watch news in HD, at least headlines, and even weather maps

- I want to watch relaxing music videos in HD

- And I want 5.1 sound on most of the channels

Sure, I wish the picture was perfect. But unfortunately, such thing doesn't exist.
And in our imperfect world, VOOM is the best choice. For me anyway. I'd rather watch less than perfect HD on V* than over-compressed SD on D* or E*...

 

[gutter]

But again, you CANNOT compare OTA to Voom HD, you can compare Voom HD to D* and E* HD, and I've had them, on the same TV, and find Voom to be on par across the board.

Let me get this straight so I understand. You agree that OTA HD like CBS etc is better than satellite? So OTA HD is better and its free. Satellite services such as VOOM we should not expect the same quality as OTA because we just pay for it? Just wanted to make sure I understood the logic.

 

[barth2k]

Let me get this straight so I understand. You agree that OTA HD like CBS etc is better than satellite? So OTA HD is better and its free. Satellite services such as VOOM we should not expect the same quality as OTA because we just pay for it? Just wanted to make sure I understood the logic.

Yeah, we can't compare voom to ota b/c "everybody knows" ota is better. We can't compare the exclusive channels to hdnet because "everybody knows" hdnet is the best. We can't compare cinema10 to hdnet movies b/c hdnet movies are better transfers and OAR. In short, Voom is just in a second class by itself.

 

[andrzej]

Yeah, we can't compare voom to ota b/c "everybody knows" ota is better. We can't compare the exclusive channels to hdnet because "everybody knows" hdnet is the best. We can't compare cinema10 to hdnet movies b/c hdnet movies are better transfers and OAR. In short, Voom is just in a second class by itself.

And what is your point exactly? That Voom is not as good as D* or E*? Or that HD OTA is better than HD non-OTA? Or, that comparing apples to oranges is difficult?

 

[gutter]

I think the point that I see being made is that Satellite HD, like HDNET, can look as good as OTA HD if you give it the space (bandwith). With WM9, they have the opportunity as long as they don't try to hog it with more SD channels that few watch just so they can advertise a high number. As someone said earlier, they don't have to add much more bandwith todo the job right.

 

[ChetK]

May be you can watch the same 6-7 HD channels 99% of the time, but I can't. I want more choices

Than it is obvious that Voom is the right choice for you.

Sure, I wish the picture was perfect. But unfortunately, such thing doesn't exist.

Then we are on the same page. However, I will continue to make my voice heard that the "doesn't exist" part should exist and the only reason it doesn't exist is because of bandwidth. I know it can exist, because I've seen the better picture quality on Dish Network. No, Dish Network doesn't have as many HD channel. Yes, Voom has more HD channels. That's undisputable. All I'm saying is: Wouldn't it be nice if Voom's PQ was as good as Dish Network's with more HD channels? Why does there have to be a trade-off? That's all I'm saying.

If you don't see the picture quality difference, the one and only thing I can say to you is: Ignorance is bliss. I don't mean this as an insult. Honestly. I wish I didn't see the difference. But when Daredevil is flying around in the fans during the bar fight scene (on HBOHD), or at the end when he's fighting The Kingpin in all of that water, I see macroblocking galore and it's very difficult for me to watch that. It's like watching a compressed movie on the internet. I have to laugh to keep from crying. And the Daredevil example is just that: An example.

I will, however, admit that the PQ has improved dramatically since I've subscribed, but the only thing holding it back now is more bandwidth.

PS. This is my last post in this thread.

 

[occammd]

This has just recently happened to my cable as well. Discovery HD looked great, but a couple weeks ago they dropped the bandwidth and now any motion scenes look like crap and hi-speed panning is incredibly bad.

 

[craigs2553]

No Problems

I had my Voom installed on the 19th. When the installer left at 1:00 pm the only thing I could get was hdnews. After several lockups I called Voom and they told me that there was a problem on there end and it should be resolved within 24 hours. Around 8:00 pm that night all of the channels and pg came in. The only problem I have is with the ota channels. I can't get what I am supposed to, which is no big deal since my tv has a built in hd tuner. So far I love it.

 

[Sean Mota]

I had my Voom installed on the 19th. When the installer left at 1:00 pm the only thing I could get was hdnews. After several lockups I called Voom and they told me that there was a problem on there end and it should be resolved within 24 hours. Around 8:00 pm that night all of the channels and pg came in. The only problem I have is with the ota channels. I can't get what I am supposed to, which is no big deal since my tv has a built in hd tuner. So far I love it.

craig,

do the correct channels appear in your PG. If not send me this information with your full address and which channels you are missing. Sean_Mota@satelliteguys.us

 

[wasch_24]

... But when Daredevil is flying around in the fans during the bar fight scene (on HBOHD), or at the end when he's fighting The Kingpin in all of that water, I see macroblocking galore and it's very difficult for me to watch that. It's like watching a compressed movie on the internet. I have to laugh to keep from crying. And the Daredevil example is just that: An example...

Something other than bad Voom PQ is going on here. I never saw any of that when I watched Daredevil on HBOHD on Voom. The only macro-blocking I have ever seen is on my OTA PBS and when a channel first tunes in or when the signal is breaking up.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Or maybe you're sticking around because it's cheaper than the other satellite providers? Oh wait...it's NOT cheaper than the other providers. Ooops, my fault. So, I guess we're paying extra for this $#!++y service. Thanks Voom!!! You're my pal!

I don't know about you, but my bill is much cheaper with Voom than with DirecTV. Perhaps you are comparing the cost of renting Voom equipment with the cost of purchasing DirecTV or Dish equipment - not a fair comparison.

FYI, I don't have those issues with my Voom receivers and I have 4 of them. I do have an issue with the HD TiVo I got and the older Sony HD receiver as well that I had for DirecTV not putting out a pristine HD picture. I cannot really fault DirecTV for the old Sony receiver, but the new Hughes is DirecTV branded, so if you fault Voom for the Motorolla box, then I would need to fault DirecTV for their HD TiVo's picture quality problem.

 

[ChetK]

Here's an example of what I'm supposed to be seeing and what I am seeing during fast moving scenes:

You're telling me that this isn't happening to you?

Also, these are not actual voom screenshots. I took a screen capture of that DVD and used Photoshop to give you an example of what it looks like to me. This is not pixel accurate, but looks very similar to what I see.

Also note that this is ONLY during fast movements or strobe-type lighting.

 

[jawilljr]

Too much compression.

Jerry

 

[Eric_C]

Do I see Macroblocking?

Yes in the high speed scenes in Spiderman, but its still not that bad, its bits and pieces of the scene, not the whole thing...I also see them in high speed scenes on CBS NFL at 17mbps.

Macroblocking in high speed scenes is a problem with HD, ALL HD, its better at 720p rather than 1080i, do you set your box to auto?

Macroblocking is the #1 reason why I did not buy a HD TV for the longest time, the LCD seems to handle it a bit better and I don't notice it as much.

Compare the high speed blocking to the still image blocking on DTV, ever see a scene with fire on DTV?

It may not be too much compression on Vooms side, it may very well be the transfer. I've done alot of video work and a poor transfer can cause the same thing. Single pass compressions during the transfer can cause scenes with like colors to block, two pass or some other options which increase rendering time 2-3 times will get rid of that problem.

Tears of the Sun is an incredible transfer and I see no macro blocking at all, even in high speed scenes. Quality of tranfers probably has alot to do with it.

I'll watch for Daredevil on HD and check it out.

I guess that is the next question to be answered. How does Voom transmit video? I can encode video for DVD at 3-7mpbs. If Voom gets original content at 17mbps does it down convert, or is it all sent out at the original rate? If Daredevil was done poorly at a low rate with single pass encoding then it may very well look like that, where as something like Tears of the Sun could be at the same bit rate, but better encoding software and more attention spent on the conversion. If TOS was done at 15mbps, and Daredevil was done at 10mbps, does Voom just pass along what they get?

If Voom receives an original at 10mbps they could transmit it at 100mpbs and just waste bandwidth, you cannot get something from nothing.

 

[wasch_24]

Here's an example of what I'm supposed to be seeing and what I am seeing during fast moving scenes:
picture removed by wasch_24
You're telling me that this isn't happening to you?

Also, these are not actual voom screenshots. I took a screen capture of that DVD and used Photoshop to give you an example of what it looks like to me. This is not pixel accurate, but looks very similar to what I see.

Also note that this is ONLY during fast movements or strobe-type lighting.

Exactly. That is what happens on my OTA PBS when their sub-channels are on, epecially during quickmovement. I have never seen that on any Voom HD channel, HBOHD or Exclusive. Trust me, I would be screaming like mad if I saw that and my wife definitely would not allow me to keep Voom. How can you be getting that and I'm not?