Interesting Video on ATSC 3.0

[harshness]

Yes, but we know that didn't happen because the 126 MHz clearing target was already announced.

Target or fantasy?

Just a few samples suggests that in order to execute an ATSC 3.0 transition the broadcasters in some larger markets might need 40 channels (around half of what they're after) to simulcast most of the existing broadcasts. In the largest markets, it may not be possible without more than 40 unless they push most of the lower budget operations off the air.

I'm figuring that in order to execute a transition, they'll need at least 40% more bandwidth over and above DTV (and no, I don't buy the argument that stations sharing channels is going to save mass quantities of bandwidth). If they don't give ATSC 3.0 enough bandwidth and force them to pack in 8 streams, consumers may dismiss it rather than voluntarily suffering it for the indeterminate duration of the transition.

 

[Trip]

ATSC 3.0 and the repack/auction are unrelated. (And the repack/auction discussion belongs in the other thread anyway. I'm partially guilty of allowing it to continue.) The size of the TV band post-auction will depend on:

1) How much money it costs to buy TV broadcasters to go off air or move to VHF.

2) How much money the wireless companies are willing to spend.

That's it.

- Trip

 

[harshness]

ATSC 3.0 and the repack/auction are unrelated.

Do the ATSC 3.0 proponents have some other frequency range in mind that won't be entirely dependent on finding unused channels in the post-repack TV band with which to commence the transition?

 

[osu1991]

Why do think there will be a transition with duplicate broadcast channels for everyone. The broadcasters are only proposing to lighthouse all the main local ATSC 1 signals on a couple stations and reciprocate by hosting those 1 or 2 stations ATSC 3 signals on their transmitters. You'll have 6 or 7 local signals in SD on the 1,2 or 3 lighthouse transmitters and everything else will move to ATSC 3. Whether the government approves of that, who knows.

Currently the repack has nothing to do with ATSC 3. The local broadcasters are trying to force the move to ATSC 3 now as they will be replacing and moving equipment anyway as part of the repack of ATSC 1. Way too much misinformation out there


Sent from my iPhone

 

[harshness]

Currently the repack has nothing to do with ATSC 3. The local broadcasters are trying to force the move to ATSC 3 now as they will be replacing and moving equipment anyway as part of the repack of ATSC 1.

How long will it be before we see ATSC 3.0 TVs (or at least affordable outboard tuners) in the marketplace? What about DVRs?

I offer a wild guess that it will take at least two years to get the ball rolling on putting the required hardware in the hands of OTA-dependant consumers.

The FCC wants to get the repack done in four years but the broadcasting people are saying it is going to take 8-12 years. They can't both be right but they could both be wrong. All the while, the wireless carriers are going to be waving big wads of money at the FCC.

Way too much misinformation out there

Misinformation is often the result of a failure of those who have the best information available to share their insights.

 

[osu1991]

How long will it be before we see ATSC 3.0 TVs (or at least affordable outboard tuners) in the marketplace? What about DVRs?

I offer a wild guess that it will take at least two years to get the ball rolling on putting the required hardware in the hands of OTA-dependant consumers.

The FCC wants to get the repack done in four years but the broadcasting people are saying it is going to take 8-12 years. They can't both be right but they could both be wrong. All the while, the wireless carriers are going to be waving big wads of money at the FCC.Misinformation is often the result of a failure of those who have the best information available to share their insights.

Well on all that I agree. 2 yrs minimum to get new equipment to market and I think both sides are wrong. I don't think they can get it done in 39 months but I don't think it will take 8-12 yrs either.

 

[harshness]

I don't think they can get it done in 39 months but I don't think it will take 8-12 yrs either.

The question is then whether the proposed voluntary transition can somehow replace most all of the tuners (that are actually being used) before the repack is executed. Unless the repack takes quite a few years, I'm dubious based on how the DTV transition went. Last time around, that was around 74 million units as I recall and even if it is now half of that, that's still a lot of tuners.

I'm not familiar with the "lighthouse" term, but if the stations pull the a generous chunk of advertising out from under the users that don't feel compelled to upgrade by removing DTV subchannels, those advertisers may look to other media.

When the resource gets tight, each consumer of that resource is dependent on everyone else that shares that resource. Whether it is water, money or bandwidth, you can't reasonably insist that it doesn't matter; especially since this is being offered voluntarily (on the part of both stations and consumers).

 

[osu1991]

lighthouse
a beacon in the night or in this example all ATSC 1 signals on a single frequency as a lighthouse for those left behind by the switch to ATSC 3

 

[harshness]

lighthouse
a beacon in the night or in this example all ATSC 1 signals on a single frequency as a lighthouse for those left behind by the switch to ATSC 3

So they're going to take channels and subchannels from each station and consolidate them into a few channels? Seems like most of the DTV frequencies are pretty tightly packed now.

Why can't I shake the idea that the ATSC 3.0 proponents are using the boundless capacity model to make their plan sound feasible?

 

[NoReDist]

Might be better to use the lighthouse to guide users to 3.0....
Use the efficiencies of 3.0 for the enhanced .1 channels of the stations that share nice together (possibly). You won't be able to share much mpeg2 crap on single frequency using 1.0

 

[harshness]

Might be better to use the lighthouse to guide users to 3.0....
Use the efficiencies of 3.0 for the enhanced .1 channels of the stations that share nice together (possibly). You won't be able to share much mpeg2 crap on single frequency using 1.0

I submit that consumers don't give a tinker's damn about bandwidth utilization and narrowly targeted advertising. ATSC 3.0 is first and foremost for the benefit the broadcasters (both TV and wireless communications) and until UHD broadcasts appear, there is precious little to motivate consumers to engage in a transition voluntarily.

 

[NoReDist]

No, you're right; they won't care about that stuff. By enhancements, I meant HDR, 4k, mobile/SFN improvements or the accessory enhancements (second-screen, etc). And it will not be all at once or in that order. Which one will be the "killer app"

You make a good point about what will force them to sunset the 1.0 transmissions, but we won't know anything about that for awhile.

 

[harshness]

You make a good point about what will force them to sunset the 1.0 transmissions, but we won't know anything about that for awhile.

I expect that the broadcasters are highly motivated because they can play more channels of advertising at once per frequency.

I believe the one and only carrot for consumers is UHD and that will, in most cases, demand investment in TV upgrades/replacement. At the same time, the broadcasters are going to have to offer (not just promise) some compelling UHD content to prove that it is worth the investment.

 

[Dee_Ann]

They can go to hell with their "nose up your bum" interactive nonsense.

NOTHING GOOD will come of this. I keep finding more reasons to just disconnect from everything, everywhere.
My next phone is going to be a used 1995 "zero feature" flip-phone from ebay.

This new tuner tech they are trying to force? I'm not having that, at all, period.
Dish Network has become an unbearable AD DELIVERY system. I've never allowed my Dish tuners to connect to a phone line or the internet because it's none of their F-N business what I watch as long as I pay my bills on time.
Everyone trips over their own feet to install monitoring devices in their homes or carry them in their pockets because ~OH SHINY!!~ YAY FEATURES!!!

We are all Copper Tops, the matrix is real. In 100 years humans will just be blobs of jelly with an internet connection pumping us full of "happy shiny".
The war is over. We lost.

 

[ejb1980]

They can go to hell with their "nose up your bum" interactive nonsense.

NOTHING GOOD will come of this. I keep finding more reasons to just disconnect from everything, everywhere.
My next phone is going to be a used 1995 "zero feature" flip-phone from ebay.

This new tuner tech they are trying to force? I'm not having that, at all, period.
Dish Network has become an unbearable AD DELIVERY system. I've never allowed my Dish tuners to connect to a phone line or the internet because it's none of their F-N business what I watch as long as I pay my bills on time.
Everyone trips over their own feet to install monitoring devices in their homes or carry them in their pockets because ~OH SHINY!!~ YAY FEATURES!!!

We are all Copper Tops, the matrix is real. In 100 years humans will just be blobs of jelly with an internet connection pumping us full of "happy shiny".
The war is over. We lost.

View attachment 120717

Oh my

 

[Trip]

https://www.fcc.gov/document/next-gen-tv-circulation-document

- Trip

 

[harshness]

The FCC clearly isn't dragging their heels on this.

 

[Voyager6]

Well let's review. Still no ATSC 3.0 standard (it's still in development) and no requirement for ATSC 3.0 tuners in new TVs but move forward anyway.

Public Interest Obligations and Consumer Protection.
We propose that television stations transmitting signals in ATSC 3.0 be subject to the public interest obligations currently applicable
to television broadcasters. In addition, we seek comment on our tentative conclusion that it is unnecessary at this time to adopt an ATSC 3.0 tuner mandate
for new television receivers. We seek comment on whether broadcasters should be required to provide on-air notifications to
educate consumers about their transition to Next Gen TV service and on how to ensure that deployment of Next Gen TV-based transmissions will not negatively impact the
post-incentive auction transition process.

 

[harshness]

Well let's review. Still no ATSC 3.0 standard (it's still in development) and no requirement for ATSC 3.0 tuners in new TVs but move forward anyway.

Late last year the principals of the ATSC 3.0 committee were saying that just a few issues remained to be decided. ATSC 3.0 must be mostly cooked or it wouldn't be ready for review by the FCC.

As ATSC 3.0 is being treated as voluntary (at the request of the manufacturers and broadcasters), there won't be any requirement that new TVs include an ATSC 3.0 capable tuner. I firmly believe that this approach is doomed.

 

[Voyager6]

Late last year the principals of the ATSC 3.0 committee were saying that just a few issues remained to be decided. ATSC 3.0 must be mostly cooked or it wouldn't be ready for review by the FCC.

As ATSC 3.0 is being treated as voluntary (at the request of the manufacturers and broadcasters), there won't be any requirement that new TVs include an ATSC 3.0 capable tuner. I firmly believe that this approach is doomed.

I totally agree. Broadcasters will be reluctant to invest in ATSC 3.0 equipment until there is a defined standard. Also, who will see their ATSC 3.0 broadcasts if there are no tuners available to the public? Then there is the issue of simulcasting ATSC 1 and ATSC 3 signals in the new reduced TV spectrum. What a mess.