Is Dish ever going to 1080p for all broadcasts?

[MikeD-C05]

Won't the new 922 be able to do full 1080P? So even if you don't get any broadcast in 1080p, you will be able to ouput everything in 1080p.

 

[lakebum431]

Won't the new 922 be able to do full 1080P? So even if you don't get any broadcast in 1080p, you will be able to ouput everything in 1080p.

No, I've played with a 922 and it does not have a setting to set the resolution at 1080p (nor would I want it to, as I'm positive that my Pioneer Kuro does a better job of upscaling than the 922 would do...)

 

[Ronnie-]

No, I've played with a 922 and it does not have a setting to set the resolution at 1080p (nor would I want it to, as I'm positive that my Pioneer Kuro does a better job of upscaling than the 922 would do...)

Exactly, outputing in 1080p is not the same as something being broadcast in 1080p.

 

[CowboyDren]

Ercjncpr,

Agreed, although on a very good encoded BluRay 1080p looks fantastic, case in point the Dark Knight Bluray Disc.

...and even at that, most Blu-ray films and VOD that are mastered/transferred in 1080p would actually require a 1440p set to resolve and display all of the horizontal lines, but that's another rant.

To the OP, the artifacts have NOTHING to do with the content being 1080i. The 1080i signal that your TV gets is de-interlaced and shown as a progressive scan image anyway.

The artifacts are mostly due to the fact that you're not seeing the full 19MBit/sec per channel that OTA broadcasters use. For Dish MPEG4 to look that good, they'd have to use at least 10MBit/sec per channel, and a lot of HD broadcasts are down to and under 3MBit/sec. When you compress a signal that much, even with MPEG4, you get macroblocks and crushed color palettes; it's just a fact of life.

If you want to watch sports with a minimum of artifacts, use an antenna. If you want to watch movies, rent a Blu-ray.

 

[tnsprin]

No, I've played with a 922 and it does not have a setting to set the resolution at 1080p (nor would I want it to, as I'm positive that my Pioneer Kuro does a better job of upscaling than the 922 would do...)

Actually it does do 1080P/24. As does the 722k. The 622 and 722 have some trouble doing it because of a older chip set but also can do so. I believe, but haven't heard that it should also be possible for the non-DVR HD recievers.

I agree I probably wouldn't want it to try and scale to 1080p. But 1080p/24 broadcast do NOT consume more bandwidth than 1080i, and is ideal for Film based programming and movies.

Also all the Dish HD receivers can convert 1080p/24 to 1080i or 720P for those who do not have a a set capable of displaying 1080p/24.

So what we are lacking is program providers currentyly supplying there material in 1080p/24. But some are talking about doing so.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I do like my Blu-rays, but rather than 1080p, I'd like to see my sat channels look as good as my OTA HD.

 

[CowboyDren]

Considering that of "all broadcasts", less than 10% are probably in 1080i, maybe we should focus on that first.

Where do you get the 10%? Just pull it out of air or what?

Uh, yeah...Of the broadcast networks, ABC and Fox are 720p, NBC, CBS, and PBS are 1080i. Actually, ABC and Fox are the only TWO of EIGHT HD broadcasts in Kansas City that use 720p (4, 5, 9, 19, 29, 38, 41, 62) . All of the Discovery networks are 1080i, I think the Scripps networks are 1080i, and all of the premium channels I can think of are 1080i. 1080i accounts for a LOT more than 10%; off the cuff I'd put it at more than half.

 

[lakebum431]

Actually it does do 1080P/24. As does the 722k. The 622 and 722 have some trouble doing it because of a older chip set but also can do so. I believe, but haven't heard that it should also be possible for the non-DVR HD recievers.

I agree I probably wouldn't want it to try and scale to 1080p. But 1080p/24 broadcast do NOT consume more bandwidth than 1080i, and is ideal for Film based programming and movies.

Also all the Dish HD receivers can convert 1080p/24 to 1080i or 720P for those who do not have a a set capable of displaying 1080p/24.

So what we are lacking is program providers currentyly supplying there material in 1080p/24. But some are talking about doing so.

You aren't understanding what was asked. You are correct that certain events can be played in 1080p/24 on both receivers. However Mike stated that you would be able to output everything in 1080p. That is not the case. Just like the other ViP receivers you can set it to display everything in 1080i or 720p (or 480i/p), but you cannot set the receiver to scale to 1080p. My point was that I really don't want it to as I'm sure my TV does a better job of scaling than the 922 would do anyway.

 

[Muckrak3r]

1080p is a fairly worthless gimmick invented by a few TV manufacturers to sell big screens. There is very little product available for the average consumer at this point.

Well I have a 73" 1080p set, and I sit 9 feet from it for the THX viewing angle of 40 degrees.

I have an Xbox 360 that does nearly every single one of my games in 1080p. I have a PS3 for blu-rays, and those are 1080p too. The only thing I have that is not 1080p is the Dish DVR.

I can tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p on this screen, and at this distance.

I could understand if someone has a 50" TV and sits 14 feet away... It would be impossible to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p.

 

[lakebum431]

The difference that you are seeing likely has nothing to do with 1080i vs 1080p, it most likely has everything to do with bitrate. The bitrate of your games and blurays is much much higher than your Dish broadcasts.

 

[primetimeguy]

Well I have a 73" 1080p set, and I sit 9 feet from it for the THX viewing angle of 40 degrees.

I have an Xbox 360 that does nearly every single one of my games in 1080p. I have a PS3 for blu-rays, and those are 1080p too. The only thing I have that is not 1080p is the Dish DVR.

I can tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p on this screen, and at this distance.

I could understand if someone has a 50" TV and sits 14 feet away... It would be impossible to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p.

Sure Blu-Ray is 1080p, but only 24fps. There is no resolution loss viewing it as 1080i or 1080p. If you set the PS3 to 1080i and see a PQ difference then your TV can't de-interlace properly, or it's in your head

It is just like many people complaining about Dish PPV in 1080p and some viewers not able to see it because their TV is not compatible and they are only seeing it in 1080i. If your TV does things correctly there is no difference PQ-wise. The only benefit of the 1080p is if your set can display in multiples of 24 so you have no frame judder from 3:2 pulldown.

 

[Muckrak3r]

The biggest difference I can see is Gears of War2. 1080i looked great, but 1080p straight up is amazing. I routinely find myself wandering off in ranked multiplayer matches just to check out the map. The details are better, and in the places where there is a ton of detail I can see it all crisp and clear. Gears2 is one place where I am not imagining the improvement.

And No Country For Old Men looked superb on 1080p. I watched it in 1080i previously and it looked great too. But 1080p was better imo.

I can understand for a smaller screen and a further distance, but for a screen this size you can tell the difference when you are close enough.

 

[primetimeguy]

And No Country For Old Men looked superb on 1080p. I watched it in 1080i previously and it looked great too. But 1080p was better imo.

I can understand for a smaller screen and a further distance, but for a screen this size you can tell the difference when you are close enough.

Again, if you are seeing a difference between 1080i and 1080p on a 24fps source (No Country For old Men Blu-Ray) it is not the resolution but your electronics at fault.

 

[CowboyDren]

I can tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p on this screen, and at this distance.

No, you can't. You can tell 720p from 1080p, but not 1080i, because your TV is effectively converting it to 1080p anyway; there is almost as much data moving on 1080i/60 as there is with 1080p/24 (only 7% less), as long as you're talking about the highest bitrate possible.

Dish does NOT use the highest bitrate possible. Since you have such a nice viewing setup, you should be able to see the effects of overcompression pretty easily with an antenna. Do you have an antenna set up for your DVR or for your TV? Try swtiching between your primetime NBC or CBS feed and your Dish NBC or CBS feed; there's even a few seconds of delay between the antenna signal and the dish signal, so you can spot compression artifacts pretty quickly.

The difference is BITRATE, not FORMAT.

 

[CowboyDren]

Sure Blu-Ray is 1080p, but only 24fps. There is no resolution loss viewing it as 1080i or 1080p.

That's not quite true. 1080i can refer to either 1920*1080i or 1440*1080i, and a lot of TV stations are already chopping down to a 1440-wide frame to allow them the bandwidth for additional 480i feeds (NBC Action Weather, for example).

This is all neither here nor there; NOBODY broadcasts in 1080p.

 

[primetimeguy]

That's not quite true. 1080i can refer to either 1920*1080i or 1440*1080i, and a lot of TV stations are already chopping down to a 1440-wide frame to allow them the bandwidth for additional 480i feeds (NBC Action Weather, for example).

This is all neither here nor there; NOBODY broadcasts in 1080p.

Agreed, I guess it was assumed I was talking full resolution 1920x1080 whether it is i or p since I was talking Blu-Ray.

 

[Stargazer]

Since HD is relatively new to most people then it makes sense to not start out at the highest possible setting which is 1080p since a lot of tv's now support this. They figure 1080i is good enough. The next big things are 3D and Holographic television.

 

[navychop]

Next step in broadcast TV is going to be MPEG4. Just had a talk recently with my Chief Engineer about we need to start preparing for going MPEG4. Haven't heard anything about any provider thinking of going 1080p.

It will be a long time coming. The change to MPEG-4 for broadcast TV (OTA) would require a change in the ATSC standard. Think how long it took to change from NTSC to ATSC. And how little NTSC changed since it codified the color signal.

However, MPEG-4 would better allow for 1080p.

 

[theoak]

Actually it does do 1080P/24. As does the 722k. The 622 and 722 have some trouble doing it because of a older chip set but also can do so. I believe, but haven't heard that it should also be possible for the non-DVR HD recievers.
...

622 and 722 can do 1080P/24 VODs just fine.

 

[whatchel1]

couple of years

It will be a long time coming. The change to MPEG-4 for broadcast TV (OTA) would require a change in the ATSC standard. Think how long it took to change from NTSC to ATSC. And how little NTSC changed since it codified the color signal.

However, MPEG-4 would better allow for 1080p.

Have been told to expect to see this happen w/in the next couple of years (the approval for OTA to go to MPEG-4 from ATSC committee). Our facility is to be redone first part of 2011. 2 of the other sister station are being redone in the next 6 months. The 4 will be redone later in 2011 this is why we are looking at equipment that will be compatible w/MPEG 4.