Is it possible to use the 722k for OTA only (no sat)?

[broadcastGuy]

It's not clear from any on-line docs if this is possible.

What i'm really looking for is a good quality OTA (ATSC and NTSC if possible) DVR, HD and SD capable.

The MPAA has scared most manufacturers into not making them available (ignorant fears of "perfect" digital copies being made of their content etc).

The ViP722K (and the forthcoming 922) sound like excellent feature rich boxes, but i only want to use the OTA inputs.

What does that mean? Well:

1) Box must work without sat signals present.
2) Box must be able to get guide information from either:
- PSIP data from OTA stations
- internet based connection to guide service (like TV guide)
3) Box must work when it has never been (nor ever will be) "activated" with either Dish or BEV.

Has anyone out there tried any of this? If so, can you offer any advice from your experience. I'd hate to drop $800 (or whatever i could get a 722k for) for a door stop.

 

[garys]

1. It must be able to view the sat signals.
2. It must have a Dish subscription as Dish wants to charge you the dvr fees. (Info comes from Dish, but must subscribe to locals in order to get them. It does not give guide info from internet connection.
3. It will not.

Echostar does sell a strictly dvr OTA box. Check their website.

 

[TheKrell]

What i'm really looking for is a good quality OTA (ATSC and NTSC if possible) DVR, HD and SD capable.

I think you want either a DTVPal DVR, a Moxi HD DVR, or the equivalent Tivo whose model number escapes me at the moment. The market for these DVRs is so slim, I too have speculated about the DRM issues.

But then there are a whole boatload of ATSC tuners available for PCs, all (?) of which do a great job of recording the broadcasts in digital perfection. If DRM issues were keeping STB manufacturers at bay, then why are there so many PC solutions?

 

[nebyty]

May I suggest a DTV Pal DVR instead of the 722k?

 

[broadcastGuy]

If DRM issues were keeping STB manufacturers at bay, then why are there so many PC solutions?

I woudl say that teh MPAA has a much easier time threatening the largely US/European CES maufacturers, and really have no strength against the largely far eastern PC community. Also the PC solutions are not something Mom and Pop can buy in turn-key form.

I realize this conversation becomes an aside of the original post, so I will limit the comment, and finish with "If it's not true that DRM/ownership issues are the reason, then why aren't there any serious numbers of OTA-ATSC, HD, DVR boxes available in the north american market? Everyone own(ed) at least one VCR, many owned OTA-NTSC SD DVRs. This is the next logical step.

I believe the market is huge, even for offshore compnaies, which woudl nornally flood north america with such products if there wasn't something stopping them.

 

[broadcastGuy]

Thanks for the input.

I am considering (and will probably purchase) a DTVpal DVR as the only "turn key" available unit. I'm a bit concerned about mixed reviews I've been readin g on various forums, but the price is not too significant a barrier to entry.

If the CE manufactureers don't introduce anything at CES2010, i'll probably build a PC bacsed solution (as noted in some other forums). It will take time to create and make bulletproof, but appears to be one of the few alternatives.

Thanks again

 

[TheKrell]

...why aren't there any serious numbers of OTA-ATSC, HD, DVR boxes available in the north american market? Everyone own(ed) at least one VCR, many owned OTA-NTSC SD DVRs. This is the next logical step.

I believe the market is huge...

I don't know how large the market is today, but it's smaller than it was. What's different is that everybody went digital, and a larger fraction of us subscribe to a pay-TV service of one form or another. These pay-TV services most always include DVR STBs at little or no extra cost, so most people just pay up and let somebody else make it work.

How many families do you know who view only broadcast TV? I know of only one such family.

 

[navychop]

You can get the Pal/Pal DVR at Sears.

I have a Pal and a Pal DVR. Happy with both.

 

[pabeader]

Pal DVR ROCKS!!!!!!

 

[Bob Haller]

yeah my pal dvr works great.

how large of a hard drive can i upgrade too?

i looked at sears but havent found one.

my brother in phoenix dropped his cable tv, i thought i might take a pal as a christmas present.

he is currently unemployeed

 

[TheKrell]

how large of a hard drive can i upgrade too?

AVS forum members have succeeded upgrading with 1TB disks. Please check here before you buy.

 

[DishSubLA]

I would recommend a Tivo HD, now selling for about $249 or a current TiVo subscriber can get you one for $149 Holiday Special.

You need to know that AFAIK, the Dish DTV DVR Pal functions more like a VCR in that it is NOT name based recording, or if you show moves to a different time or day, the DVR will not notice this and won't record it.

Also, depending upon your market (local city) you guide data may be poor or faulty. This means your recordings may not occur or just get messed-up. the DVR Pal uses the local PSIP for EPG data and often local stations don't provide more than a few days of EPG data, not 7 or 14 days in advance. However, there is no monthly fee for this DVR, but that's because you are using the free PSIP data.

Now, TiVo does charge per month ($12.95), but the TiVo uses the very same guide data that Dish uses that is provided by Tribune, and that costs money for Dish and TiVo, so that is one reason why TiVo charges a monthly fee. However, you get 14 days of EPG, Name Based Recording technology so that if your show changes time or days, you won't miss it, and many other very good features. Oh, and the TiVo has 2 OTA digital tuners in addition to 2 QAM tuners that are compatible with cable TV and FiOS. However only 2 streams (or channels) can recorded at the same time, not 4. If you are looking for a truly automated, dependable and feature rich DVR for OTA, then the TiVo is the best choice right now.

VERY IMPORTANT: Dish satellite digital OTA boxes DO NOT provide guide data for far too many of the OTA digital "sub-channels," while TiVo has full guide data on almost all the "sub-channels." That may, or may not, be important to you. It annoys me that Dish satellite doesn't provide guide data for many "sub-channels" as they do have content I would like to record or watch live.

The Moxi HD boxes DO NOT have OTA digital tuners, but will work with cable and FiOS. The reason Moxi and others (excepting TiVo and Dish DTV DVR Pal) do not offer OTA digital tuners and recording is that in order to provide reliable guide data so that your shows will almost record, they would have to pay for a service such as Tribune, and Moxi and others aren't going to absorb that cost, and it is too expensive and complicated to set-up billing to charge you a fee per month so they don't lose $$ on providing you the EPG like TiVo who started about 10 years ago. The local PSIP is not that reliable and provides a truly inferior DVR experience in too many markets, and Moxi buyer would be PISSED about how it isn't working so swell with OTA, like some DTV DVR Pal users complain.

Now, you need to compare the cost of subscribing to the lowest qualifying Dish package and add $5 for locals. Then compare that to the monthly cost of TiVo. Dish might be the better price option as you would be getting some "cable" channels along with the minimum qualifying subscription, but with TiVo you really don't get anything extra for the monthly fee.

Overall, Dish satellite DVR's are better than TiVo, but it seems the only really reliable DVR for OTA is TiVo. I so wanted the DVR Pal to do so well because paying TiVo $$ every month stinks. Sigh! What could have been.

 

[QCK]

My DTVPal DVR works great as well. 7 day guide, no fees, dual tuner HD...:up

 

[Bob Haller]

My DTVPal DVR works great as well. 7 day guide, no fees, dual tuner HD...:up

''

me too, i am going to upgrade the hard drive

 

[navychop]

I'm certainly not going to pay $12 or $13 per month indefinitely, just for an EPG. And certainly not to a company that has never made a profit from operations, and may not even be here in a couple years or so.

I look at the EPG on my Pal DVR and click to record. Similar to Dish receivers, but not as many options. And presumably, PSIP data will improve.

 

[pabeader]

DTVPal uses PSIP only if TVGuide isn't available. In 90% of markets it is. As long as you can get the local CBS you will have TVGuide as the source of your EPG.

 

[DishSubLA]

I forgot to add that the TiVo HD does have analog OTA, as well as digital OTA.

 

[DishSubLA]

DTVPal uses PSIP only if TVGuide isn't available. In 90% of markets it is. As long as you can get the local CBS you will have TVGuide as the source of your EPG.

It uses PSIP for the DVR exclusively. The TV Guide data option with the Pal DVR is for peripheral equipment that support TVGOS such as some DVD recorders. Although there is a TV Guide bug on the PSIP EPG, it is, in fact, not using TVGOS, but just the PSIP. Dish and Echostar are required to show the TV Guide bug on all their EPG's as per settlement with the old TV Guide/Gemstar. However, some TV Guide technology may have been incorporated into the standard EPG as allowed by the same settlement.

 

[whatchel1]

who needs it

I forgot to add that the TiVo HD does have analog OTA, as well as digital OTA.

So who needs analog OTA or a TIVO for that matter. I hope to see the extortionist TIVO go out of business.

 

[Bob Haller]

for whatever its worth the secondary missing guide info on my 722K is the same as the missing dvr pal channel info. exactly the same.