Is there a way to request OTA guide data?

[pattykay]

I have said for years that DISH should do only the big 4 or 5 networks( ABC/CBS/Fox/NBC/CW) on the satellites and use PSIP data over the air for all Sub channels and or all smaller or independent channels in local dmas. This would give both DISH and their customers what they want. Yes, it would be limited guide data for sub channels ,but it would better than none. I don't see why this wouldn't work, since all tvs made in the last few years allow you psip data for their ota broadcast portion of their sets. They could also allow guide data to be downloaded to your receivers over the internet, for their hd receivers since all the Vip and Hopper receivers allow internet connections. With cord cutters and cord nevers growing, it really makes no sense continuing to piss off their subs ,who want full guide data for their ota sub channels.

So, you are suggesting that Dish should take away satellite-delivered guide data from channels that they are currently providing full guide data for? No thanks! Not every channel has good PSIP data, and not all Dish subscribers have an internet connection. Requiring an internet connection just to get guide data would be even worse than requiring an internet connection for VOD, in my opinion.

 

[Mr Tony]

If anyone is bored, you can peruse the local channel information here, http://uplink.jameslong.name/locallist.html. Iceberg showed me this information some time ago.... This effectively shows you Dish's records of your local markets channels.

What is really frustrating (and I've mentioned it in numerous threads) is Dish doesnt even supply OTA guide info for some stations they carry via satellite. Few examples
My market is technically Minneapolis, MN. However I am 95 miles away from Mpls proper so I get the stations via translators or satellite stations.
KCCW is a satellite of WCCO CBS. 100% mirror. Dish carries WCCO in satellite and has guide for 4-1 (WCCO). Why not remap it for 12-1 (KCCW) and for that matter KCCO 7-1?
KAWB PBS they do carry guide info for all 6 stations
FOX and My are on a translator (K48IF) so we'll exempt those
KSAX 42 is ABC. Its a satellite station of KSTP 5 which Dish carries (and has guide info for). Again why not remap it to 42-1 too?

Best example of "getting screwed" is Lima, OH. Dish carries all 4 nets on satellite but has guide info for NONE of them. Now I get it. If you have locals via sat why need guide info for OTA? 2 reasons I can think of. You're in a different market (say Dayton) and can get Lima too or if you can use the OTA tuner and free up a sat tuner (for those without Hoppers)

What gets me is when a market adds a network and Dish puts it on locals, why not add it to OTA? Some examples
Jonesboro, AR in the last 6 months got a local NBC (KAIT2) and FOX (KJNB). Dish carries both on satellite but no guide info for OTA
Jackson, TN has all 4 nets yet DIsh only provides guide info for ABC and FOX (CBS is on a sub and NBC was added late last year)
North Platte, NE. FOX on subchannel. Carried in locals, no OTA guide

Then there are some areas where the OTA guide info dish DOES carry, but since they have it listed on the wrong channel its a moot point.
Minneapolis as example is so jacked up..corrections in BOLD

2-01 KTCA TSID 0x0645, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6353/8576)
2-04 KTCI4 TSID 0x0645, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14063)
4-01 WCCO TSID 0x0631, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6348/8571)
5-01 KSTP TSID 0x0647, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6347/8570)
9-04 KMSP2 TSID 0x0633, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14787)
9-09 KMSP TSID 0x0633, Subchannel 09 (DISH Channel 6350/8573)
11-01 KARE TSID 0x0635, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6349/8572)
11-02 KARE2 TSID 0x0635, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14785)
17-03 KTCI TSID 0x0649, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 6352/8580)SHOULD BE 2-3
22-01 KAWB TSID 0x0623, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6357/8583)
22-02 KAWB2 TSID 0x0623, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14313)
22-03 KAWB3 TSID 0x0623, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 14055)
22-04 KAWB4 TSID 0x0623, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14056)
22-05 KAWB5 TSID 0x0623, Subchannel 05 (DISH Channel 14058)
22-06 KAWB6 TSID 0x0623, Subchannel 06 (DISH Channel 14057)
23-01 WUCW TSID 0x0637, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6354/8574)
29-01 WFTC2 TSID 0x0639, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 14789)SHOULD BE 9-3
29-02 WFTC TSID 0x0639, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 6351/8575)SHOULD BE 9-2
45-03 KSTC3 TSID 0x063B, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 14229)SHOULD BE 5-4
45-04 KSTC2 TSID 0x063B, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14230)SHOULD BE 5-3
45-45 KSTC TSID 0x063B, Subchannel 45 (DISH Channel 8577)SHOULD BE 5-2

 

[pattykay]

Iceberg, what you are describing sounds exactly like what Dish is doing to WMFD OTA guide data.
Here is the OTA guide data listing for WMFD, which I corrected in BOLD:

12-01 WMFD TSID 0x08F1, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 8522)SHOULD BE 68-1

 

[r10fret]

Does Dish lack of support of the guide data skirt the FCC rules and the V-chip guidelines of the Telecommunications Act of 1996?

Since it does not interpret the program rating being transmitted in the PSIP data on the OTA channels in which they do not provide guide data via satellite (Digital Service), Dish has falsely set the rating to TV-MA NR/AO. I have dealt many times with the ratings setting on a receiver blocking the OTA tuner module channels that have no guide data and the false TV-MA rating classification from Dish. In my area for instance 2.1 has guide data for NBC, but 2.2 has (digital service) for ME-TV and it has the TV-MA rating on ME-TV network through the OTA module while the PSIP says it should be TV-G on Lost in Space.

The FCC has acted on similar issues against equipment manufacturers who have not properly implemented the ratings system. Perhaps this is the route needed to get Dish to provide guide data support.

https://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/dtv-v-chip-enforcement-actions
https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2009/DA-09-1645A1.html

http://transition.fcc.gov/vchip/

 

[Hall]

Someone has brought that up before and if I recall, Dish isn't required to comply through some loophole.

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[r10fret]

Yes they are, not as a provider but as an "equipment manufacturer," they made the OTA module and the receiver's firmware. Has someone also decided to skirt paying an ATSC patent license fee ($5 per unit) for each module? They have chosen to ignore the ATSC PSIP and run the ratings in house and decided to fake rate everything by default to TV-MA to be safe as a provider. So I would like to know the loophole from compliance with the FCC guidelines on ratings implementation that exempts dish as both a provider to fake the rating as TV-MA, and dish as an equipment manufacturer, to ignore the real rating in the PSIP data.

 

[JM42]

Yes they are, not as a provider but as an "equipment manufacturer," they made the OTA module and the receiver's firmware. Has someone also decided to skirt paying an ATSC patent license fee ($5 per unit) for each module? They have chosen to ignore the ATSC PSIP and run the ratings in house and decided to fake rate everything by default to TV-MA to be safe as a provider. So I would like to know the loophole from compliance with the FCC guidelines on ratings implementation that exempts dish as both a provider to fake the rating as TV-MA, and dish as an equipment manufacturer, to ignore the real rating in the PSIP data.

Does it really matter? Dish is not naïve of the requirements. There is either a loophole, or language ambiguous enough they feel OK with the current status. Right or wrong, if they had real concerns we'd have the data.

 

[Hall]

THE V-CHIP

In order to accommodate the design cycle and provide a smooth transition for product introduction, the Commission is requiring that manufacturers include v-chip technology on at least half of their product models with a picture screen 33 cm (13 inches) or greater in size by July 1, 1999, and the remaining half of such models by January 1, 2000. This implementation schedule is desirable to ensure that televisions with fully functional v-chip technology are available as soon as possible.

The Commission is requiring that personal computers that include a television tuner and an appropriately sized monitor must also include v-chip technology. However, the order makes it clear that this requirement applies only to broadcast transmissions and does not apply to video transmissions delivered over the Internet or via computer networks.

The rules require that the v-chip technology contained in covered television receivers responds to the TV Parental Guidelines and the MPAA rating system. Televisions are not required to accommodate other rating systems. However, the Commission..we encourages manufacturers to design television receivers to provide for additional rating systems to the extent practical.

Not even a loophole - it simply does not apply to the type of hardware that the OTA module is. Hell, it doesn't even apply to the receiver based on these definitions.

 

[KAB]

So, what have we learned here, kids?

 

[Hall]

Yes they are, not as a provider but as an "equipment manufacturer," they made the OTA module and the receiver's firmware. Has someone also decided to skirt paying an ATSC patent license fee ($5 per unit) for each module? They have chosen to ignore the ATSC PSIP and run the ratings in house and decided to fake rate everything by default to TV-MA to be safe as a provider. So I would like to know the loophole from compliance with the FCC guidelines on ratings implementation that exempts dish as both a provider to fake the rating as TV-MA, and dish as an equipment manufacturer, to ignore the real rating in the PSIP data.

Report them to the FCC and let them decide if they're in violation or not affected.

 

[navychop]

And make a fool of yourself. Possibly marking yourself on automatic "ignore" in the future.

 

[ChadT41]

Yes they are, not as a provider but as an "equipment manufacturer," they made the OTA module and the receiver's firmware. Has someone also decided to skirt paying an ATSC patent license fee ($5 per unit) for each module? They have chosen to ignore the ATSC PSIP and run the ratings in house and decided to fake rate everything by default to TV-MA to be safe as a provider. So I would like to know the loophole from compliance with the FCC guidelines on ratings implementation that exempts dish as both a provider to fake the rating as TV-MA, and dish as an equipment manufacturer, to ignore the real rating in the PSIP data.

Dish is not an equipment manufacturer, though. Echostar is. Completely seperate company.

 

[Hall]

Dish is not an equipment manufacturer, though. Echostar is. Completely seperate company.

That is nitpicking and wouldn't make a difference. Dish is the company that is distributing it to consumers. Otherwise, go after Echostar just the same.

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[Tampa8]

LOL those rules are for electronics with TV/Computer screens.

 

[ChadT41]

That is nitpicking and wouldn't make a difference. Dish is the company that is distributing it to consumers. Otherwise, go after Echostar just the same.

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Not really nitpicking. They really are two seperate companies, with two seperate agendas. They are, however, majority owned by the same individual, but they operate completely seperate, just as very close partners. Nitpicking would be trying to be the ones talking about how they are violating certain laws, when all of us are sure their team of lawyers have gone over not just what you posted, but the ENTIRE set of laws/rules.

 

[foghorn2]

Thats why I said F em, they can go play game with others who can tolerate. I move on to better things.....

 

[osu1991]

Thats why I said F em, they can go play game with others who can tolerate. I move on to better things.....

Got my monthly call from Cox about adding tv service to my internet last Thursday. It's getting hard not to accept. As a very long time Dish customer, I have a lot of discounts Dish gave me without even asking a few months ago when I called in about a receiver problem and dropping down to AT120, so it's even harder to leave now.

I mentioned to the Cox rep that we have 3 accounts with Cox, 2 in Oklahoma and 1 in Las Vegas and what could they do for me on the Las Vegas account. They offered me locals and free dvr or cable card for $9.99/mo for 2 years no contract or TV Essential for $39.99/mo for 2 years with free dvr or cable card no contract. I ended up taking the $9.99 locals package and they sent an installer out the next day with a cable card for the Tivo. Works great and guide info for all the locals.

 

[foghorn2]

Yep, I got Cox (yes two of them ) also. I get the Movie pack for 10 and HBO for 5! No Commitments. and if they play games like Dish, I will fire them too eventually and go straight OTA with the Tivo's. Easy to switch back and forth. I can also archive all the non flagged shows onto my server via Moca.