Joeys, Super Joeys and Ethernet

D

DBordello

Thread Starter
Member
Mar 17, 2014
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1
Corvallis, OR
I have seen some brief mentions that a Joey will work with just an ethernet connection to the Hopper (no MoCA). Granted it was probably 15 years ago, but I have had awful experiences with ethernet over cable/powerline/phone/etc. While I am sure it is much better now. I am interested in using a nice, clean, switched, gigabit network for the Hopper / Joey communication. What is your experience? Does the Joey perform better over ethernet? Perhaps better since the network is more responsive? Perhaps worse since it is an unoptimized route? Any drawbacks (other than being unsupported)?

Now, for the Super Joeys, this question is a bit more interesting. The Super Joey could feasibly be sending two streams to the Hopper to record, and another back do display. This could lead to a good amount of MoCA traffic. Will the Super Joey function with just an ethernet connection? This is a bit more difficult to implement, since it needs the coax sat feed. However, if an integrator was removed, the Super Joey would not have access to the MoCA cloud and would have to fall back to the ethernet connection.

Anybody with a Super Joey willing to pull out their integrator and compare performance?

Thoughts?
 
S

sparc

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 24, 2006
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You're always going to have a more reliable system using coax since that's what most customers use. If you don't have existing coax available, then it's a good option as long as you're willing to troubleshoot on your own. The one upcoming exception might be the new Wireless Joey that will have a dedicated network of it's own and will be fully supported by Dish.
 
Last edited:
Marshall Henry

Marshall Henry

SatelliteGuys Family
I actually use a Joey on just ethernet as that is all that's available in my home office. I don't really notice much difference to the joey in my master which is coax. Might actually be a bit slower in the guide. I have a Super Joey in my 1st floor living room that is connected to both ethernet and Coax. I could try running just off ethernet if you want - But I don't have to remove the integrator, do i? I can just remove the coax from the box?
Edit - The tech won't install the joey over just ethernet. And I think it actually has to be provisioned on coax from the start, though I might be wrong about that.
 
D

DBordello

Thread Starter
Member
Mar 17, 2014
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1
Corvallis, OR
You're always going to have a more reliable system using coax since that's what most customers use. Once you connect outside their system, Dish isn't responsible. You're essentially outside their support system and have to troubleshoot on your own. The only upcoming exception will be the new Wireless Joey that will have a dedicated network of it's own.

Super Joey requires coax.

I realize I will be outside of the normal experience. "I don't care about what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do."

I actually use a Joey on just ethernet as that is all that's available in my home office. I don't really notice much difference to the joey in my master which is coax. Might actually be a bit slower in the guide. I have a Super Joey in my 1st floor living room that is connected to both ethernet and Coax. I could try running just off ethernet if you want - But I don't have to remove the integrator, do i? I can just remove the coax from the box?
Edit - The tech won't install the joey over just ethernet. And I think it actually has to be provisioned on coax from the start, though I might be wrong about that.

Thank you for the feedback.

I would be interested to see how it reacts with MoCA. It might be upset if you remove the coax, since you would lose the sat feed as well. Removing the integrator would just drop the MoCA connection.
 
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sparc

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 24, 2006
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I realize I will be outside of the normal experience. "I don't care about what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do."
It's a good option as long as you're willing to be the tech support. As Marshall indicated, the Joey would have to be activated initially on coax.
 
Marshall Henry

Marshall Henry

SatelliteGuys Family
I looked at the wiring diagram... I am not sure how I would do this since the splitter, node, and integrator are in my basement away from living room. Can I just remove the line from the splitter to the integrator? Or do I need to remove the integrator and then couple the feed from the satelitte to the Super Joey upstairs?
 
D

DBordello

Thread Starter
Member
Mar 17, 2014
13
1
Corvallis, OR
I looked at the wiring diagram... I am not sure how I would do this since the splitter, node, and integrator are in my basement away from living room. Can I just remove the line from the splitter to the integrator? Or do I need to remove the integrator and then couple the feed from the satelitte to the Super Joey upstairs?

Removing the line between the integrator and the node would probably do it.
 
D

DBordello

Thread Starter
Member
Mar 17, 2014
13
1
Corvallis, OR
you could skip the coax and network cable entirely and get a regular joey running wireless. Another option, if you like to tinker.

That would be a step in the wrong direction. I really hate wireless. To be honest, it is mostly tinkering. I have several coax and ethernet runs to each location.
 
harshness

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
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Salem, OR
You're always going to have a more reliable system using coax since that's what most customers use.
That is the single lamest justification I've seen yet (and I've had discussions with a lot of DECA fanboys). This is like saying that all pickup drivers should drive Ford F-Series pickups because most do.

Coax is subject to all sorts of vagaries that conventional Ethernet isn't subject to. Just bending a cable too sharply (<1.5" radius) can negatively impact the network.
 
S

sparc

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 24, 2006
1,721
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That is the single lamest justification I've seen yet (and I've had discussions with a lot of DECA fanboys). This is like saying that all pickup drivers should drive Ford F-Series pickups because most do.

Coax is subject to all sorts of vagaries that conventional Ethernet isn't subject to. Just bending a cable too sharply (<1.5" radius) can negatively impact the network.
I wasn't referring to the technical merits of ethernet vs coax.

I'm talking about support from Dish. They design and test their system primarily around coax. They install only with coax. They'll roll out and prioritize bugs that might pop with coax installs. They'll send out techs to your home to fix what's necessary as long as it's coax. So, of course it's going to be more reliable for most Dish customers.

When Dish starts training techs to install ethernet wiring instead of coax, my opinion could change....
 
Marshall Henry

Marshall Henry

SatelliteGuys Family
IMG 20140318 163340 IMG 20140318 163706

I disconnected the line from the splitter to the integrator, and yes, the ethernet was used instead.
 
Marshall Henry

Marshall Henry

SatelliteGuys Family
Fantastic work. It is interesting that the "MoCA" connection became stronger.

Any noticeable changes in performance? Can you still record on 5 tuners from the hopper?
Apologies for the confusion, but I actually disconnected, took the picture on the left (No MoCA connection), then reconnected it and took the picture on the right. I'll go disconnect it again and see how the tuners work on the hopper.
 
Marshall Henry

Marshall Henry

SatelliteGuys Family
IMG 20140318 170431 IMG 20140318 170655

Image on Left shows MoCA disconnected. Image on right shows all 5 tuners in uses recording. And with that, my work here is done.

There was no difference in performance on the super joey with MoCA disconnected. The super Joey is much faster than my Joey's in general, however.
 

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