Excellent work. It is nice of Dish to allow alternative network options.
That being said, I just got a call from the installer who said he could come tomorrow at 8a. Now you guys can tell me to do my own damn tinkering
Joeys, Super Joeys and Ethernet
- Thread starter DBordello
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Excellent work. It is nice of Dish to allow alternative network options.
That being said, I just got a call from the installer who said he could come tomorrow at 8a. Now you guys can tell me to do my own damn tinkering
Gotcha....thanks.
Now since the SJ has its own two tuners, is it able to do PiP as well?
One thing that seems to get lost is that MOCA is ethernet over coax just like wifi is ethernet over radio waves, at least it is in my understanding. The ability to use cat 5 or wifi instead of the MOCA is because (thankfully) the dish software developers coded hopper to utilize whatever conduit available, instead of the MOCA only. Id bet with some rewordng, the box could "shotgun" across all three transports simultaneously for extra capacity, although its not needed.
Unless im mistaken, which is always a possibility.
Miner
Unless im mistaken, which is always a possibility.
Miner
MoCA takes advantage of some of its limitations in a mostly successful effort to be faster than otherwise. As an example, MoCA uses the fact that it is limited to 16 nodes to shorten up addressing.
Ethernet is a relatively abused term and while MoCA works with Ethernet, it isn't really Ethernet. Early implementations of Ethernet (10base2) used coaxial cable (RG58) but they were fully implemented (while limited to one conversation at a time as WiFi and MoCA are) and not taking any short-cuts. The fact that the new CAT5 protocols are all bi-directional makes them largely superior to the single conversation technologies.
One thing that seems to get lost is that MOCA is ethernet over coax just like wifi is ethernet over radio waves, at least it is in my understanding. The ability to use cat 5 or wifi instead of the MOCA is because (thankfully) the dish software developers coded hopper to utilize whatever conduit available, instead of the MOCA only. Id bet with some rewordng, the box could "shotgun" across all three transports simultaneously for extra capacity, although its not needed.
Unless im mistaken, which is always a possibility.
Miner
All my Hoppers and Joey are each connected Ethernet Cat5 to my router and all are in Ethernet mode, no bridging and no wireless. Also, Hoppers and Joey are connected by coax to two Duo Nodes. Do you know what Internet/network MoCA stuff communicates to all STBs by taking the MoCA coax route and what networking things travels the Cat5 cables? And, also what exactly is coming from the Satellites? All four Hoppers are connected to the phone line. Are phone line connections just providing caller ID only and nothing else? I'm not a network geek so can you please explain in layman's term? Thanks to any help.
I may have to break this into more than one response. Hoppers recieve 3 satellite signals from the node via the coax cable, where the 3 signals are split and decoded into the 3 watchable channels. The Hopper is able to send 1 channel to each joey over the "ethernet" and when the joey is connected via coax to the node, MOCA thru the same coax feeding the satellite signal. The node is part diplexor, part stacker where the satellite signal is split from MOCA, very similar to how OTA (or backfeedi g) on VIP works. The phone connection only carries phone info for caller ID and nothing else.
Thanks Miner, but if all Hoppers and Joey are connected by Cat5 to the router and also by coax to the Nodes, do you know what Internet/network stuff communicates to the Hoppers and Joey by taking the coax route and what networking things travels the Cat5 cables? Hoppers and Joey are in Ethernet mode.
Avoiding the term "Ethernet" altogether, because cat5/wireless/moca can all be ethernet at some level.
The only thing that traverses over the cat5/wireless connection by default is communication to/from the internet - internet sourced VOD data, "call home" data communications with dish, app data like Facebook/Pandora/Weather Channel app/music channel album art/etc - and the "second screen" apps like DishAnywhere and Dish Explorer. All in all it's really a trivial amount of data.
All video from Hopper to Joey/SJ to Hopper/Hopper to Hopper will traverse the coax/moca connection if available, Dish doesn't want the core video functions to be dependent on non-Dish hardware like a router of unknown quality.
The satellites provide all data needed for core functionality - live programming/guide data/channel logos/tile images/etc. Data coming from the satellites travels the coax, but at different frequencies than moca and does not impact moca bandwidth.
For an internet connected system, the phone line is used for caller-id and not much else. If not internet connected, then the nightly "call home" from the STB to Dish goes over the phone line.
The net result is all the extra connectivity doesn't really gain you any extra capability - by default.
As we know, Dish did not hard code a moca only restriction into Hopper/Joey. If moca is not available, the components will find each other and communicate over the cat5/wireless connections. It would therefor be possible to gain bandwidth by not connecting a device via coax and forcing the data to ride over cat5/wireless. The best example is the user who disconnected the SJ integrator from the node and forced all SJ communication to go over cat5, in effect eliminating all the extra bandwidth required by the SJ from the moca link.
But cat5/wireless is not supported for video, there is at least one feature that does not work correctly over cat5/wireless, and there could be more. The one I know of is the DVR drop down on a cat5 Joey only sees the linked Hopper in a dual Hopper system. It's a nuisance issue, since the Joey can still link to either Hopper, but it shows not all the "plumbing" may be aware of the dual connectivity capability.
The only thing that traverses over the cat5/wireless connection by default is communication to/from the internet - internet sourced VOD data, "call home" data communications with dish, app data like Facebook/Pandora/Weather Channel app/music channel album art/etc - and the "second screen" apps like DishAnywhere and Dish Explorer. All in all it's really a trivial amount of data.
All video from Hopper to Joey/SJ to Hopper/Hopper to Hopper will traverse the coax/moca connection if available, Dish doesn't want the core video functions to be dependent on non-Dish hardware like a router of unknown quality.
The satellites provide all data needed for core functionality - live programming/guide data/channel logos/tile images/etc. Data coming from the satellites travels the coax, but at different frequencies than moca and does not impact moca bandwidth.
For an internet connected system, the phone line is used for caller-id and not much else. If not internet connected, then the nightly "call home" from the STB to Dish goes over the phone line.
The net result is all the extra connectivity doesn't really gain you any extra capability - by default.
As we know, Dish did not hard code a moca only restriction into Hopper/Joey. If moca is not available, the components will find each other and communicate over the cat5/wireless connections. It would therefor be possible to gain bandwidth by not connecting a device via coax and forcing the data to ride over cat5/wireless. The best example is the user who disconnected the SJ integrator from the node and forced all SJ communication to go over cat5, in effect eliminating all the extra bandwidth required by the SJ from the moca link.
But cat5/wireless is not supported for video, there is at least one feature that does not work correctly over cat5/wireless, and there could be more. The one I know of is the DVR drop down on a cat5 Joey only sees the linked Hopper in a dual Hopper system. It's a nuisance issue, since the Joey can still link to either Hopper, but it shows not all the "plumbing" may be aware of the dual connectivity capability.
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Thanks JM42 for taking the time to reply. I understand it better now. It appears to me it is best to connect both ways, coax and Cat5 or wireless. And, leave the trusty phone line connected too. LOL
The video streams from the Ethernet connection could be turned off in firmware anytime now. Once wireless joeys are available, that could be a possibility.
If one was able to use a Super Joey with two hoppers and all ran fine because extra bandwidth was supplied by Ethernet, then one would experience major issues once the Ethernet capability was cut off.
If one was able to use a Super Joey with two hoppers and all ran fine because extra bandwidth was supplied by Ethernet, then one would experience major issues once the Ethernet capability was cut off.
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JM42 certainly explained better than I was able. I spend most of my Sat guys time trying to get my 2 year old down for bed, typing on my kindle fire tablet isn't the most productive.
Many years ago Dish experimented with their box to box connection so only 1 box connected to a phone line shared the uplink, caller ID and perhaps other info, IIRC. It never seemed to work with my 2 622s. Or at least it didn't work very well. I wonder if that functionality would at least eliminate having 5 phone lines being connected for caller ID. amazing how things have changed in <10 years.
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