OTHER Ku Dish Farm Advice?

[Captain Midnight]

Anyone here use a farm for ku coverage? I recently got 2 1.2m channel masters free from a hotel tossing them. That puts me up to 3 1.2m and 1 1m dishes that I am interested in using for multifeed reception. I'm thinking about covering 87w-91w with 1, covering 95w-99w with another, a 3rd on 101w-105w, and so on-so forth. My question is how to link these together with diseqc switches and other equipment? What is the easiest way to configure a multifeed farm with the least loss?

 

[telstar_1]

Make sure your hog feeders are properly adjusted.

 

[clucas]

I’m using my 1.2 Geosat dish for 87, 91, 97 and 99(with lnbf modification) and 103. Four degrees work. I ground down two lnbfs to get them closer together for the 97/99 test. I did post a picture in another thread.
My other dish is using two Amiko slim lnbfs for 123 and 125 with another standard lnbf for 117. One 1x8 diseqc switch works for all.

 

[phlatwound]

I don't know what your level of knowledge is regarding switches but this is a great place to start:

Switches Simplified

Introduction: Lots of basic switch questions come up every month. I'm no expert on the subject, but I've been paying close attention to the people who've been putting them to work. Some have come up with very complicated switching matrices from the simple building blocks. So, for a while, I've...

www.satelliteguys.us

Anole, R.I.P.

There is a lot more info in this thread than what you asked about but it might give you some ideas:

Best Way to Receive Whole Ku Arc With Fixed Dishes?

I got the bright idea the other day to make an attempt at getting as much of the Ku arc viewable from North America as possible using fixed Ku dishes and multi-lnbfs. I want to be able to receive these signals on at least 2 receivers, perhaps more in at least 2 different rooms. I have...

www.satelliteguys.us

 

[Captain Midnight]

I’m using my 1.2 Geosat dish for 87, 91, 97 and 99(with lnbf modification) and 103. Four degrees work. I ground down two lnbfs to get them closer together for the 97/99 test. I did post a picture in another thread.
My other dish is using two Amiko slim lnbfs for 123 and 125 with another standard lnbf for 117. One 1x8 diseqc switch works for all.

I'll look for a photo.

 

[Captain Midnight]

I don't know what your level of knowledge is regarding switches but this is a great place to start:

Switches Simplified

Introduction: Lots of basic switch questions come up every month. I'm no expert on the subject, but I've been paying close attention to the people who've been putting them to work. Some have come up with very complicated switching matrices from the simple building blocks. So, for a while, I've...

www.satelliteguys.us

Anole, R.I.P.

There is a lot more info in this thread than what you asked about but it might give you some ideas:

Best Way to Receive Whole Ku Arc With Fixed Dishes?

I got the bright idea the other day to make an attempt at getting as much of the Ku arc viewable from North America as possible using fixed Ku dishes and multi-lnbfs. I want to be able to receive these signals on at least 2 receivers, perhaps more in at least 2 different rooms. I have...

www.satelliteguys.us

Thank you for these links. I know just that you need an uncommitted switch or Diseqc 1.1 to cascade from. I just am hoping to get advice on other setups that mitigate loss.

 

[c-spand]

I’m using my 1.2 Geosat dish for 87, 91, 97 and 99(with lnbf modification) and 103. Four degrees work. I ground down two lnbfs to get them closer together for the 97/99 test. I did post a picture in another thread.
My other dish is using two Amiko slim lnbfs for 123 and 125 with another standard lnbf for 117. One 1x8 diseqc switch works for all.

Can you post picture of you'r muti sat lnbs on dish. Curious of your set-up. Thank you

 

[clucas]

I hope this will take you to my post. There are some other pictures by other people earlier in the thread.

My New Dish Farm

I had a problem i was aware of, but wasn't willing to invest the time into the issue until recently. I have a 4 tuner STB, and a couple years back, i attempted to hook in my satellite network into two separate LNB inputs. This way i could watch what ever i wanted, and my Record events could...

www.satelliteguys.us

 

[RimaNTSS]

I am interested in using for multifeed reception.

First, congrats on getting those nice dishes! There are a couple of pictures of multifeed solution on Channel Master 1,2m, maybe you can get some ideas. When you plan multifeed, do not do it wide, just for nearby satellites, multifeeded LNBs "steal" signal levels . To connect all LNBs to one cable, look for DiseqC 1/10. It has 10 inputs and one exit to your receiver.

 

[iBoston]

Hey there.. Good luck in your project... I see there is already a link to one of my threads, but i think i can more directly talk about the switching. I am lucky as that i have not noticed loosing a signal between tapping directly at the dish, and inline through all the switching. I did have a scenario just recently where i couldn't get some signals on 34.5w. But, it turned out to be a poor performance LNBF. I swapped out the LNBF and that solved that issue. There are a couple of FEED channels i cannot get on 91w, but i cannot get them at the dish either, so it has nothing to do with the switching. It has more to do with i am using a side-car lnbf to pick up 99w and I am probably not 100% fine tuned on it.

I cover 30, 34.5, 87, 91, 95, 97, 99, 101,103,110,111,113,117,121 . I utilize multiple dishes, and multiple LNBF's on the dishes. I added additional complexity in that i wanted it to work with 4 satellite receivers at the same time. So, i utilize diseqc 1.0 , diseqc 1.1 switches and then a bunch of Eagle Aspen 5x4 Satellite Multiswitch S-4140-GX 54-2150 Mhz . This allows me to hook up 4 satellite receivers to every dual LNBF. I have my diseqc 1.0 switch at the receiver, then that goes to multiple destinations. Up-line to those each one also has a diseqc 1.1 switch that then branches off to the different 5x4 switches. Each 5x4 switch allows 2 horizontal and 2 vertical lines to allow for 2 different satellites, or even more if you want to restrict one or more LNBFS to only vertical or horizontal... Example : I utilized 125w VERTICAL ONLY and 95w HORIZONTAL only so I was able cheat and get additional sources with less hardware. The 5x4 switch uses 22khz to switch between the two different satellites it handles.

I also created a favorites list that contains the switch destinations within the service name. I found this to make it easier to trouble shoot and more quickly track down where in-line i might have potential problems. The first number represents Diseqc 1.0 port , the second number represents the port # of the diseqc 1.1 switch, and the ON/OFF represents the 22khz tone. Port 3 of my Diseqc 1.0 switch all goes to one storage container. Port #2 goes to 8x4 switches i have in the basement to cover my two additional cband dishes at the house, and then Port #3 goes to another storage container that hits another farm of KU and Cband dishes. Port #4 is utilized to tap into a DVBS modulator that converts my Digicipher signals to DVBS signals that i can then gain access to through port 4 on all my satellite receivers. I then used a secondary TUNER for my once USALS KU.



Here is a picture that shows many of my KU dishes. I have another farm of dishes on another storage container not shown in the below picture.

 

[c-spand]

I hope this will take you to my post. There are some other pictures by other people earlier in the thread.

My New Dish Farm

I had a problem i was aware of, but wasn't willing to invest the time into the issue until recently. I have a 4 tuner STB, and a couple years back, i attempted to hook in my satellite network into two separate LNB inputs. This way i could watch what ever i wanted, and my Record events could...

www.satelliteguys.us

Thank you clucas. I downloaded the pic. Gives me good start on how to set it up for multi sats.

 

[mr_rye89]

I’m down to 2 Ku dishes right now, I had a farm with 3 more directv dishes but for some reason right now I can’t get anything with dishes under 90cm, and I also did a sidecar Ku lnbf on the c band dish, but now that doesn’t work anymore……

 

[Captain Midnight]

First, congrats on getting those nice dishes! There are a couple of pictures of multifeed solution on Channel Master 1,2m, maybe you can get some ideas. When you plan multifeed, do not do it wide, just for nearby satellites, multifeeded LNBs "steal" signal levels . To connect all LNBs to one cable, look for DiseqC 1/10. It has 10 inputs and one exit to your receiver.

Can you elaborate on "do not do it wide"?

 

[RimaNTSS]

Can you elaborate on "do not do it wide"?

I mean, you have LNB in the focal point of the dish. Then you add additional LNBs left and right to it, they will receive signals from other satellites. But distance from central LNB to multifeeded LNBs should not be great, I would say 10cm maximum, or you will get unacceptable reception.

 

[one_db_compression]

I mean, you have LNB in the focal point of the dish. Then you add additional LNBs left and right to it, they will receive signals from other satellites. But distance from central LNB to multifeeded LNBs should not be great, I would say 10cm maximum, or you will get unacceptable reception.

Every antenna has a TX/RX radiation pattern. For commercial equipment, this can be obtained from the manufacturer. Attached is a pattern for a 4' parabolic dish for 11 GHz terrestrial microwave, which is effectively the same band as Ku satellite. The half-power (-3 dB) beam width is 1.5 degrees. For an 85cm Ku reflector, it is probably around 2 degrees. The gains are similar in the +40 dBi range.

You can see that once you are a few degrees off-axis that the signal gathering rolls off quickly. This is why there are some funky reflector and LNB designs for DISH and DirecTV when you need to pick up multiple satellites that aren't adjacent in the arc. If you were using a Ku dish with a similar pattern locked on 110W, the signal from 119W would be about 1/1000th (-30 dB), whereas you could pick up 111W with a loss of just over half the power (-3 dB).

The 10cm above can be translated into degrees with some arithmetic on the geometry of the reflector and positions of the LNBs. If your receiver will give you accurate signal levels for different LNBs, you can start to reverse engineer the radiation pattern "the hard way".

 

[RimaNTSS]

I am totally agreeing with you one_db_compression .... that is why I do not like to use multifeeds on simple offset antenna. But some people have no other choice, especially if they are going to receive signals from satellites with small distance in orbital positions. So, I am not a fan of multifeeds unless they are installed on toroidal or multifocus antenna.

 

[Captain Midnight]

I am totally agreeing with you one_db_compression .... that is why I do not like to use multifeeds on simple offset antenna. But some people have no other choice, especially if they are going to receive signals from satellites with small distance in orbital positions. So, I am not a fan of multifeeds unless they are installed on toroidal or multifocus antenna.

I'm not a fan either, but my HH motor died and the dishes were free. I am going to have a ku LNB on my 10ft BUD for feed hunting too.

 

[Captain Midnight]

Every antenna has a TX/RX radiation pattern. For commercial equipment, this can be obtained from the manufacturer. Attached is a pattern for a 4' parabolic dish for 11 GHz terrestrial microwave, which is effectively the same band as Ku satellite. The half-power (-3 dB) beam width is 1.5 degrees. For an 85cm Ku reflector, it is probably around 2 degrees. The gains are similar in the +40 dBi range.

You can see that once you are a few degrees off-axis that the signal gathering rolls off quickly. This is why there are some funky reflector and LNB designs for DISH and DirecTV when you need to pick up multiple satellites that aren't adjacent in the arc. If you were using a Ku dish with a similar pattern locked on 110W, the signal from 119W would be about 1/1000th (-30 dB), whereas you could pick up 111W with a loss of just over half the power (-3 dB).

The 10cm above can be translated into degrees with some arithmetic on the geometry of the reflector and positions of the LNBs. If your receiver will give you accurate signal levels for different LNBs, you can start to reverse engineer the radiation pattern "the hard way".

So by 10cm, we are talking 5cm left or right of the main feed point, correct?

 

[Captain Midnight]

Every antenna has a TX/RX radiation pattern. For commercial equipment, this can be obtained from the manufacturer. Attached is a pattern for a 4' parabolic dish for 11 GHz terrestrial microwave, which is effectively the same band as Ku satellite. The half-power (-3 dB) beam width is 1.5 degrees. For an 85cm Ku reflector, it is probably around 2 degrees. The gains are similar in the +40 dBi range.

You can see that once you are a few degrees off-axis that the signal gathering rolls off quickly. This is why there are some funky reflector and LNB designs for DISH and DirecTV when you need to pick up multiple satellites that aren't adjacent in the arc. If you were using a Ku dish with a similar pattern locked on 110W, the signal from 119W would be about 1/1000th (-30 dB), whereas you could pick up 111W with a loss of just over half the power (-3 dB).

The 10cm above can be translated into degrees with some arithmetic on the geometry of the reflector and positions of the LNBs. If your receiver will give you accurate signal levels for different LNBs, you can start to reverse engineer the radiation pattern "the hard way".

I appreciate this info. Do you mind posting a radiation pattern for a 1m offset? I have one 1m I may try to get 2 or 3 satellites with.

 

[RimaNTSS]

So by 10cm, we are talking 5cm left or right of the main feed point, correct?

It all depends... In Europe, the majority of Ku-band satellites nave intense power, so it is not a problem to get signals from satellites up to 10 degrees (or even more) difference of orbital positions. On the pictures I posted in my post #9 LNBs are located ~12cm apart from the middle one (24cm total distance between edge LNBs). In the USA situation can be different.