Long run to SG2100 motor

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brdwatcher

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Aug 12, 2006
11
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Green Bay, WI
I've been working on this new setup for several weeks with mixed success. Thanks to you guys I've had very little trouble aligning the dish. I followed the frequently seen recommendation of setting up without the motor first. No problems. Once I installed the motor I started having issues. I introduced my invacom LNB at the same time and only had to adjust my dish a very little to peak the signal. I think the problem is with my extremely long cable run of 260 ft. from my receiver to the motor. I'm getting exceptable signal quality but I'm having trouble with my motor. When I switch satellites the motor moves in what appears to be 1 step increments. the green light blinks orange for a few seconds then it moves another step. It takes for ever to move from bird to bird and sometimes it never makes it, especially when returning from the end of the arc. In this case the motor isn't moving and the green light flashes orange every few seconds. My initial setup (pre motor) was using old coax from an abandoned D* system with lots of splices. I ran new cable so I now have a single piece fo coax from the motor to the receiver. When I take the TV and reciever out to the dish everything works fine. The dish moves from bird to bird relatively smoothly/quickly. It does stop every 4 or 5 seconds for a fraction of a second but I assume this is normal. My RG6U coax isn't quad shielded but it is sweep tested up to 3Ghz. I've seen posts that talked about runs of 150 ft. with no problems but none as long as mine. Unfortunately this is the only place where I have a good LOS. Does anyone know if a run as long as mine would cause enough voltage loss to make the motor behave as I've described. If so, is there anything I can do about it?
 
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ghia

ghia

Pub Member / Supporter
Nov 11, 2005
416
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I don't have my motor manual close by, but I would look at the specs and see if it lists any paramenters for max cable length. Have you tried using only horizontal TP when moving the dish? If I remember correctly H sends 18v and Vertical sends 13v. If it works on horizontal position but not on the vertical that might indicate your run is too long. You could also measure the voltage and amprege readings at the motor and compare to the stated specs in the manual. Good luck
 
Tron

Tron

SatelliteGuys Master
May 6, 2005
6,599
33
Metro New Orleans, LA
260 feet is, by far, the longest run I've heard of on here. Most likely, that is the cause of the trouble, especially if shorter cables work without problems.

Are there any splices at all on your 260' run? What type of fittings are you using to terminate the ends of the cable, and do they appear to be in good shape?
 
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Sadie

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 31, 2006
220
0
Nova Scotia
I am running just over 200ft and had the same problem at first, I had to modify the SG2100 motor, the Twinhan USB box I was using could not supply enough power to start the motor realibly, I belief most STB are better in this respect. The modification involves some delicate PC board work and uses an external power supply to supply power to the motor,(I was using a battery until I ran another cable out to the dish), the motor PC board with the control IC still draws its power from the reciever.
There is a thread on the official Mytheatre surport forum on the subject here http://board.mytheatre.ru/viewtopic.php?t=2676&highlight=sg2100 if the file is not available any more PM me and I will send you a copy.
A power insertor might also be an option if the 13/18V switching works, they are available but I've never checked into them.
 
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brdwatcher

Thread Starter
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Aug 12, 2006
11
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Green Bay, WI
Ghia, am I correct in assuming that the voltage is set based on the transponder you are switching too (not the one you were just connected to)? I'll try that and see if it make any difference.

Tron, I used compression type connectors when I replaced my original cable with a single piece (no splices). I even replaced the connectors on both ends, even though they both looked ok. No improvement.

Sadie, modifying the motor sounds interesting, but is probably only a last resort for me. I can't find much info on power inserters. What I've found is mostly related to modification to D* switches.

If anyone has any info or experience with power inserters that would be cool. In the meantime I think I'll try moving my receiver, straightening my run inside the house, and getting rid of any extra cable I can. Might be able to get it down to 200'. I'm also wondering if quad shielded cable might have provided a better conductor for the motor power.

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I love this site. I probably won't get back to my wire shortening project till later this week. Gotta watch the Packers lose (ah, er, I mean play) tonight.
 
Tron

Tron

SatelliteGuys Master
May 6, 2005
6,599
33
Metro New Orleans, LA
On a run that long I'd definitely use quad shield. Especially if you live near an urban area or close to a military base or airport.
 
ghia

ghia

Pub Member / Supporter
Nov 11, 2005
416
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brdwatcher said:
Ghia, am I correct in assuming that the voltage is set based on the transponder you are switching too (not the one you were just connected to)? I'll try that and see if it make any difference.

Yes I believe that is correct. I have a habit of always selecting a channel on a horizontal TP before changing sats, makes it easier.
 
PSB

PSB

On vacation
Nov 5, 2003
1
4
When I worked in Cable TV (SPIT) we would use RG11 for longer runs, I recommend that option before considering adding ANY kind of amplifiers to the line as they will also amplify any noise in the line.

brdwatcher what kind of SG2100 do you have? Moteck , Digipower, DM910........
 
SatelliteAV

SatelliteAV

SatelliteGuys Master
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 3, 2004
6,486
183
Roseville, CA
The problem probably is not likely related to a voltage drop but rather sending the 22 KHz DiSEqC information upstream to the motor. The Quad Shielded RG6 or RG11 (as suggested by Pete) should do the trick if the receiver has an adequate amplitude on the 22KHz signal.

Receivers are not created equal when it comes to the strength of the 22KHz signal. One brand may drive a motor or switches fine over an extremely long run and another brand will only be able to drive a short distance. 22KHz tone switching is more reliable than the modulated 22KHz used for DiSEqC / USALS commands.
 
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bryanw20

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 28, 2006
272
43
brdwatcher said:
I've been working on this new setup for several weeks with mixed success. Thanks to you guys I've had very little trouble aligning the dish. I followed the frequently seen recommendation of setting up without the motor first. No problems. Once I installed the motor I started having issues. I introduced my invacom LNB at the same time and only had to adjust my dish a very little to peak the signal. I think the problem is with my extremely long cable run of 260 ft. from my receiver to the motor. I'm getting exceptable signal quality but I'm having trouble with my motor. When I switch satellites the motor moves in what appears to be 1 step increments. the green light blinks orange for a few seconds then it moves another step. It takes for ever to move from bird to bird and sometimes it never makes it, especially when returning from the end of the arc. In this case the motor isn't moving and the green light flashes orange every few seconds. My initial setup (pre motor) was using old coax from an abandoned D* system with lots of splices. I ran new cable so I now have a single piece fo coax from the motor to the receiver. When I take the TV and reciever out to the dish everything works fine. The dish moves from bird to bird relatively smoothly/quickly. It does stop every 4 or 5 seconds for a fraction of a second but I assume this is normal. My RG6U coax isn't quad shielded but it is sweep tested up to 3Ghz. I've seen posts that talked about runs of 150 ft. with no problems but none as long as mine. Unfortunately this is the only place where I have a good LOS. Does anyone know if a run as long as mine would cause enough voltage loss to make the motor behave as I've described. If so, is there anything I can do about it?

I can't help much, other than to say I use a BEC 2000 & an SG2100 and have a 350' run from dish to STB. Very vew splices, ground block at the dish, and one more inside to get from equipment room to STB (about 30'). Can't remember exactly what cable I'm using other than it was an Eagle Aspen brand, and not quad shield. Granted Dish moves slowly, but can't say about the "steps" or colors as I can't be in 2 places at once, and currently don't have anyone to help me be in 2 places at once (ie: an inside helper). I also don't have a hugh signal strength by the end of the run either, so most of the times I piggy back off my big dish (same length of run, just larger dish).
 
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brdwatcher

Thread Starter
Member
Aug 12, 2006
11
0
Green Bay, WI
Well I got busy last night and lopped off all excess cable at both ends. I have a habit of leaving a lot of extra at the ends so I can move stuff and not have to add splices. Anyway, my run is now down to 198' and that seems to have corrected the problem. My dish is moving in both directions without problem. I'm not sure if it is still pausing every 4 or 5 seconds cause it was storming pretty good by the time I got it all put back together. Then we lost power so I couldn't send this reply till this morning. I am going to look into putting some rg11 or quad shielded rg6 in the ground before it freezes just to make sure it continues to work in cold weather.

Now I can finally get down to some feed hunting like the rest of you guys. Also got my eyes on a disfunctional primestar dish I saw hanging off the back of a strip mall. My goal is to get EWTN for my wife. I thought I could get it using the circular side of my lnb from echostar 7 but it's scrambled...thought it would be open. I know there is a cband feed, I forget which bird its on, but I'm getting off topic here. I know there are plenty of mini-bud threads here that I have to re-read before asking any questions in that regard.

Thanks again for all the quick responses, great ideas, and excellent advice.
 
SatelliteAV

SatelliteAV

SatelliteGuys Master
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 3, 2004
6,486
183
Roseville, CA
If the cable will be buried underground be sure to purchase "FLOODED" cable. This type of cable is designed for direct burial and has a pvc jacket and waterproofing compound within the cable.

Standard or quad shielded cable is not designed for burial.
 
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