Missing OTA guide data

[JosephB]

Is there a way to report missing guide data to Dish for those of us using the OTA adapter in a 722k or 222k? I live in the Birmingham, AL DMA and due to the merging of Birmingham with the Tuscaloosa and Anniston DMAs back in the 90s, it's a pretty large DMA in terms of land mass covered. We have two PBS stations (which are really the same: Alabama Public TV available on two different channels in different geographic locations) and also our ABC affiliate is repeated on two full power stations.

The problem is that with the OTA tuner, Dish only provides OTA guide data for one of each. Example: The Birmingham ABC affiliate is on both channel 33 and 40, but Dish only provides data for 40 OTA. 40 also happens to be the channel number they picked for the station over the satellite. However, I get a better signal at my house OTA on channel 33, but since they don't provide guide data for channel 33, all I have is "Digital Service" in the guide, meaning I can't use it for scheduling recordings. The same thing applies to my PBS station, 10 and 7, but OTA data is only available for 10 and I get a better signal on 7 (which is another discussion entirely since Ch 7 is about twice as far away from me as 7)

This wouldn't be an issue except my PBS has two subchannels I'd like to have data for, and I want to use the OTA adapter when possible for scheduling recordings to free up tuners plus the channels in question are marginal, so I'm not just being picky..the tuners do lose signal a significant amount of the time.

Is there a way to report or request this OTA data be added? I suspect the PBS issue is because channel 7 isn't technically in the Birmingham DMA, it's not in any DMA. The 33/40 issue should be addressed, though, because it affects about half, geographically, of the DMA.

 

[whatchel1]

I would say it has to do w/ the fact you are listed by where you live to get the info for the stations that you receive the data for. IOW the DMA you are in give you the data that you receive. Most likely if you "move" to a new address for the other DMA you will get the listing for those stations.

 

[JosephB]

But that's the thing, those stations are in my DMA. Or at least in the case of Channel 33 WCFT it is. Channel 7 (APT/PBS) isn't assigned to any DMA, but is physically located in my DMA. There's not a neighboring DMA I can 'move' to in order to pick up those channels. Plus, I don't think that has anything to do with it. I'm picking up CBS from Montgomery via OTA, which is a different DMA, and I'm getting guide data for it.

 

[Mr Tony]

Joseph
I can relate. My uncle has Dish with an OTA antenna. The Minneapolis DMA is HUGE. Runs from the Iowa border almost to Canada. He has issue with guide info for one station.
WCCO CBS 4 is based here in Minneapolis. They have 2 satellite stations in the market. KCCO 7 (about 130 miles away) and KCCW 12 (almost 200 miles away from Mpls). All have the same programming. He gets no guide info because he picks up KCCW OTA. Dish uses WCCO since its in Minneapolis

Basically what Dish has to do is to get the guide info to show on 33. The problem is they have the guide info for "WJSU". Because you are picking up a "different" station (WCFT) Dish doesnt have the guide info for that station.

I thought we use to have a list of the "guide data" channels. If you look at an uplink report its the channels with 5 digits

as long as Dish has the guide data loaded for a station it will show in the OTA guide regardless if its in your DMA or not. There are lots of folks who get 2 or 3 DMA's OTA and they get guide info for most of the stations

 

[JosephB]

Right. Is there any way to report this to Dish? All they have to do is mirror WJSU to WCFT. And for my PBS station mirror WBIQ (Alabama Public TV's Birmingham transmitter) to WCIQ (APT's Mt. Cheaha transmitter). The problem with only having the one is that WJSU is on the east side of the state and WCFT on the west. And they're nowhere near the same direction as all the other stations which are in the middle. It's not trivial to just switch to the other one

This isn't a new setup, the WCFT/WJSU deal started in 1996. Though I'm not surprised, a couple of years ago they got screwed in ratings because Nielson was counting them wrong due to being spread out over like 5 channels (their 'main' LP station plus the two satellites on analog plus the two satellites on digital)

 

[Mr Tony]

Joseph
Here is someone who has the EXACT same problem. He picks up a satellite station OTA and has no guide info yet the Dish local does (due to the different callsign)
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/219309-ota-guide-info-problem.html

 

[Mr Tony]

Right. Is there any way to report this to Dish? All they have to do is mirror WJSU to WCFT. And for my PBS station mirror WBIQ (Alabama Public TV's Birmingham transmitter) to WCIQ (APT's Mt. Cheaha transmitter).

I honestly dont know if they'll do anything. You might want to try the engineer at the station itself. They can get in touch with Dish.

 

[JosephB]

So it doesn't look good for my situation then

Maybe some of the Dish employees or Scott can pass this to an actual engineer at Dish instead of just a random ticket that will get lost in a database. It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to fix.

 

[Hall]

Is there a way to report missing guide data to Dish...

You can report it here , but don't hold your breathe...

 

[JosephB]

I honestly dont know if they'll do anything. You might want to try the engineer at the station itself. They can get in touch with Dish.

I *might* try that route if I can't get anyone at Dish to listen. I do know a guy that works in the newsroom at the ABC station

 

[Jhon69]

Is there a way to report missing guide data to Dish for those of us using the OTA adapter in a 722k or 222k? I live in the Birmingham, AL DMA and due to the merging of Birmingham with the Tuscaloosa and Anniston DMAs back in the 90s, it's a pretty large DMA in terms of land mass covered. We have two PBS stations (which are really the same: Alabama Public TV available on two different channels in different geographic locations) and also our ABC affiliate is repeated on two full power stations.

The problem is that with the OTA tuner, Dish only provides OTA guide data for one of each. Example: The Birmingham ABC affiliate is on both channel 33 and 40, but Dish only provides data for 40 OTA. 40 also happens to be the channel number they picked for the station over the satellite. However, I get a better signal at my house OTA on channel 33, but since they don't provide guide data for channel 33, all I have is "Digital Service" in the guide, meaning I can't use it for scheduling recordings. The same thing applies to my PBS station, 10 and 7, but OTA data is only available for 10 and I get a better signal on 7 (which is another discussion entirely since Ch 7 is about twice as far away from me as 7)

This wouldn't be an issue except my PBS has two subchannels I'd like to have data for, and I want to use the OTA adapter when possible for scheduling recordings to free up tuners plus the channels in question are marginal, so I'm not just being picky..the tuners do lose signal a significant amount of the time.

Is there a way to report or request this OTA data be added? I suspect the PBS issue is because channel 7 isn't technically in the Birmingham DMA, it's not in any DMA. The 33/40 issue should be addressed, though, because it affects about half, geographically, of the DMA.

If you haven't tried this it may be as easy as performing a check switch then let your guide reload?.

 

[JosephB]

If you haven't tried this it may be as easy as performing a check switch then let your guide reload?.

That won't work because the channels do not exist in the guide at all according to the uplink information at Local Channels on DISH Network (Unofficial Listing)

Checking a random sampling of DMAs, it doesn't appear that any markets have any guide data for OTA channels for channels not carried by Dish. They only carry channels they carry in LIL service plus their subchannels. In a few markets they don't even have OTA guide data for channels that they do carry on the satellite.

I have to give them credit, they do better than DirecTV which doesn't let you scan in stations that they don't have guide data for, but at least DirecTV has guide data for more OTA channels. With my AM21 tuner on my DirecTV HDDVR, all the channels had guide data.

 

[Jhon69]

That won't work because the channels do not exist in the guide at all according to the uplink information at Local Channels on DISH Network (Unofficial Listing)

Checking a random sampling of DMAs, it doesn't appear that any markets have any guide data for OTA channels for channels not carried by Dish. They only carry channels they carry in LIL service plus their subchannels. In a few markets they don't even have OTA guide data for channels that they do carry on the satellite.

I have to give them credit, they do better than DirecTV which doesn't let you scan in stations that they don't have guide data for, but at least DirecTV has guide data for more OTA channels. With my AM21 tuner on my DirecTV HDDVR, all the channels had guide data.

On my 722k/w MT2 I receive OTA channels that Dish Network doesn't carry(subchannels to the ones that Dish Network does carry) and the program information for those channels are there in my guide.Then I have other digital channels that Dish Network doesn't carry and the program information is not there(it only says digital service) and since those stations are sometimes there and sometimes not I would imagine those stations are still not completely operational,but are in testing mode or something.

P.S. When I add or delete or rescan for digital channels I always do a check switch then let the program guide reload.

 

[JosephB]

On my 722k/w MT2 I receive OTA channels that Dish Network doesn't carry(subchannels to the ones that Dish Network does carry) and the program information for those channels are there in my guide.Then I have other digital channels that Dish Network doesn't carry and the program information is not there(it only says digital service) and since those stations are sometimes there and sometimes not I would imagine those stations are still not completely operational,but are in testing mode or something.

P.S. When I add or delete or rescan for digital channels I always do a check switch then let the program guide reload.

Yeah, that's what I'm describing. When I say 'channels Dish doesn't carry', I'm referring to the main channel. Dish doesn't carry channel 7 at all, not even the main channel, so there is zero guide data. For channel 13 they only carry the main channel, but have OTA guide data for their subchannel as well. However in my case these aren't "test" stations. These stations have been up for years and are full power. I suspect when you say the channels are sometimes there and sometimes not, that just means you're getting a fringe signal. I don't know of any TV stations that would test in such a way.

 

[Hall]

If Dish carries the "main" channel, in theory they will provide guide data for the sub-channels. When they don't, it's because of an "error", somewhere. It could be that Tribune doesn't know about the channel, Dish and/or Tribune have incorrect data, the station changed the TSID by mistake or on purpose and in turn didn't notify Dish/Tribune.

Now, if Dish doesn't carry the local at all, ie a low-power local, you will NOT get guide data (period). Check switch, channel scan, etc all you want, it wont make a difference.

As an example, I get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW, PBS via Dish. With my antenna into my Dish receiver, I get all of those plus a TBN affiliate. I get guide data for those, including their sub-channels (1). For the TBN, it lists "Digital Service" in the guide.

(1) The ABC affiliate added "Cool TV" months ago that is still unlisted; one of the PBS sub-channels is incorrect. See first paragraph for why.

 

[JosephB]

If Dish carries the "main" channel, in theory they will provide guide data for the sub-channels. When they don't, it's because of an "error", somewhere. It could be that Tribune doesn't know about the channel, Dish and/or Tribune have incorrect data, the station changed the TSID by mistake or on purpose and in turn didn't notify Dish/Tribune.

Now, if Dish doesn't carry the local at all, ie a low-power local, you will NOT get guide data (period). Check switch, channel scan, etc all you want, it wont make a difference.

As an example, I get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW, PBS via Dish. With my antenna into my Dish receiver, I get all of those plus a TBN affiliate. I get guide data for those, including their sub-channels (1). For the TBN, it lists "Digital Service" in the guide.

(1) The ABC affiliate added "Cool TV" months ago that is still unlisted; one of the PBS sub-channels is incorrect. See first paragraph for why.

I understand the case of a low power, but this is not the case. These are full power satellites of each other. Really, they're not even 'satellite' stations. In the case of ABC, the official ABC affiliate is a LP station downtown but they have two full power satellites at each side of the state. Dish has picked one of the full power stations for their line up and the other one, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist to them. With the PBS, APT has a statewide network of almost 20 stations that carry the exact same video feed. Channel 10 is the one downtown, but again, there is a channel 7 on one side of the state that is full power. Technically they would qualify under must-carry, but obviously their owners don't see any point in that.

 

[Mr Tony]

Guys you're not understanding what the OP is saying

While Dish does have the guide info for some subchannels that are provided to Dish by the station, in this case they have the "main" stations info and not the satellite station. A satellite station is a full powered station that rebroadcasts ANOTHER full powered station. In his case Channel 40 is the "main" station and Dish carries that station and guide info if using it OTA. The OP is picking up a satellite station of Channel 40 (Channel 33). Same programming, same commercials. But since its a different callsign and Dish doesn't have that callsign loaded in their system it shows "digital signal". The callsign has to match what Dish has in the file. If you look at the list he provided in post #12 Dish has the following info for that station
40-01 WJSU
40-02 WJSU2

But the issue is he is not picking up WJSU. Its WCFT that he is picking up OTA. SO until Dish loads WCFT in their guide data info tables, he'll get "digital signal" for guide info

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I understand the case of a low power, but this is not the case. These are full power satellites of each other. Really, they're not even 'satellite' stations. In the case of ABC, the official ABC affiliate is a LP station downtown but they have two full power satellites at each side of the state. Dish has picked one of the full power stations for their line up and the other one, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist to them. With the PBS, APT has a statewide network of almost 20 stations that carry the exact same video feed. Channel 10 is the one downtown, but again, there is a channel 7 on one side of the state that is full power. Technically they would qualify under must-carry, but obviously their owners don't see any point in that.

Try dishquality @ echostar.com

They have gotten a couple OTA guide issues resolved that I have reported in the past and are currently looking into an AntennaTV local guide issue...

 

[Hall]

But the issue is he is not picking up WJSU. Its WCFT that he is picking up OTA. SO until Dish loads WCFT in their guide data info tables, he'll get "digital signal" for guide info

That's what I said I don't know the details of these stations obviously but duplicate, satellite channel, whatever make no difference. Dish doesn't carry the "clone" so they wont provide guide data.

 

[bigrich]

Same problem in Indianapolis. WTTV CW 4 is uplinked on dish with Guide Data. WTTK 29 CW 4 satellite full power station not on dish has no guide data. Most people in Indianapolis cannot receive WTTV and can receive WTTK. Also, Antenna TV is missing guide data. I do not know if Antenna TV's guide data missing is Dish's problem or Tribune Broadcasting's problem.