Most likely upgrade path for existing customers - discussion

tunagimp said:
If you purchased a car from a manufacturer, based upon infromation received from that manufacturer telling you in no uncertain terms you would be able to have and continue to maintain a certain level of performance, then less than a month later find out they were lying, you'd be mad, right?

Yes I'd be mad, but what's that got to do with Dish's new HD plans? Your 942 will still operate the way it does today after the implementation of mpeg-4 and the addition of the new channels. You will still get all the programming you get today, you just won't get the new channels. When E* plans to shut off mpeg-2 and force you to get a new receiver they will definitely have a reasonable or free upgrade path. If that car manufacturer came out with a mid year re-model with a new engine that gave an extra 100 horsepower a month after you bought your car, you might be upset, but you certainly wouldn't expect a new car with more horsepower to be given to you for free would you?
 
To answer the original question, my opinion is that Dish will provide an opportunity for current 6000/811/921/942 owners a low-cost (~$99 per unit) upgrade to the new units with a minimum HD programming commitment of two years, maybe one year. Having bought a 942 last April, I'm not keen on spending even more money to be able to spend more money, but I'm looking forward to some of Universal HD's offerings.
 
DVDDAD said:
Yes I'd be mad, but what's that got to do with Dish's new HD plans? Your 942 will still operate the way it does today after the implementation of mpeg-4 and the addition of the new channels. You will still get all the programming you get today, you just won't get the new channels. When E* plans to shut off mpeg-2 and force you to get a new receiver they will definitely have a reasonable or free upgrade path. If that car manufacturer came out with a mid year re-model with a new engine that gave an extra 100 horsepower a month after you bought your car, you might be upset, but you certainly wouldn't expect a new car with more horsepower to be given to you for free would you?

AAAAAAHHHHHHH......

This conversation reminds of one I had recently with a Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist who wrote in a newpaper column that since George Bush and Haliburton were running a Blood for Oil war in Iraq spending all yo's money, it was somehow OK for impoverished Parents to lie to Public School Officials to get their kids on the free student lunch program.

It's not about the performance of the Dish 942 or Dish 921 RIGHT NOW. It's about being LIED to. A purchase decision by a consumer was based on FALSE information given out by E*. (And about me being really, really, mad, right now.)

If not me, then Joe Doakes. Whether or not it was deliberate (I vote yes) is a matter for fact-finding or a Court of Law. This very receiver is STILL BEING SOLD, right now, today, by E*'s agents.

As for the Car example, that very thing happened with the 2004 model-year Mazda RX-8 (from Consumeraffairs.com):

September 5, 2003

Mazda is offering to buy back all of the 2004-model RX-8 sports cars sold in the United States because the car's rotary engine produces 4.8 percent less horsepower than expected.

Customers who choose to keep their cars will get free maintenance for four years and $500 in parts and accessories, the company said. Letters went out to registered owners in late August.

Mazda initially said the manual-transmission RX-8 would produce 247 horsepower, the automatic version 207. But after making modifications to meet U.S. emission rules, the correct figures were 238 and 197, Mazda said.

In the example above the vehicle in question was not defective (other than inherently defective--two quarts of oil per 1000miles), nor did it fail to continue to operate after a period of time.

I believe Acura and Hyundai were also"guilty" of this and were forced to make amends.

I don't think the Car example is exact, but it's darn close.

And by the way, the Reporter mentioned above was recently fired for "inventing" parts of her award-winning columns.

Foxbat said:
To answer the original question, my opinion is that Dish will provide an opportunity for current 6000/811/921/942 owners a low-cost (~$99 per unit) upgrade to the new units with a minimum HD programming commitment of two years, maybe one year. Having bought a 942 last April, I'm not keen on spending even more money to be able to spend more money, but I'm looking forward to some of Universal HD's offerings.

That deal would make me a satisified customer. I would be glad to commit to a 1 to 2 year pre-payment deal, also. Provided I get the one or two month's discount.:D
 
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A car has more use than what these receivers do since they become obsolete so quickly. It seems it only takes two to three years anymore. This is why I decided not to spend more than an x amount on them as a result and only if I think it will be a good investment with a good bit of programming available.

Most people expect to have the hardware included for little or no cost since they have to pay for the programming. This may cause Dish Network to charge a little more for the HD programming to offset the cost of the hardware and maybe charge a little upgrade fee and a lease fee per month. Some type of combo to make it reasonable for Dish Network and the customer. Once the customer is done leasing the receiver it can be returned to Dish Network to lease to another customer.

I would have thought that the cost of the 622 would have been a little cheaper than what the 942 is. I was expecting a cost around that of a 625 receiver or maybe a little bit more.
 
I posted in another thread that I think they might offer a $99 upgrade option too.

While someone who just received a 942 might not be thrilled by this, I think it is a reasonable offer.
 
DVDDAD said:
Yes I'd be mad, but what's that got to do with Dish's new HD plans? Your 942 will still operate the way it does today after the implementation of mpeg-4 and the addition of the new channels. You will still get all the programming you get today, you just won't get the new channels. When E* plans to shut off mpeg-2 and force you to get a new receiver they will definitely have a reasonable or free upgrade path. If that car manufacturer came out with a mid year re-model with a new engine that gave an extra 100 horsepower a month after you bought your car, you might be upset, but you certainly wouldn't expect a new car with more horsepower to be given to you for free would you?


Ummm you forgot to say that you also have to fork out a few grand as well to the car maker even though you still have the older engine.

YOu see people are mad that they are going to pay for these extra hd channels that we can not even get. I see this as illegal in every way against dish. If my hd bill goes up to the same amount as somone who is getting more hd channels then that is going to be a dream come true for lawyers. I definetly am going to cancel dish before my contract ends and not pay any penalty, because what dish is doing would be illegal.

Everything dish is doing is to make a quick profit. You watch.
 
chipvideo said:
Everything dish is doing is to make a quick profit. You watch.
Duh! They are a publicaly traded company and that usually what shareholders expect! :rolleyes:
 
The car analogy is a bad one since the car is still fully functional and can be used to provide transportation to any destination...just gas and go. For those who purchased a HD receiver, it is my opinion that a customer has a reasonable expectation to be able to subscribe to any HD programming being offer by that provider unless there is a specific disclaimer provided when they made their purchase. It is also reasonable to assume those receivers under warranty should be modified/replaced in order to receive new MPEG-4 HD channels at least during the warranty period.

I feel that someone owning a HD receiver under warranty should be offered an upgraded or replacement receiver and pay nothing more than shipping...else, Dish should refund the purchase price of the receiver. I feel strongly about this...especially since many people purchased HD receivers based on official statements from Dish Network that new VOOM and ESPN2 channels would be in MPEG-2 (November Tech Chat).
 
tunagimp said:
At what point does Dish Network stop its authorized retailers, its agents, from selling this machine?
...

Dish Network told their dealers a while ago to start "getting rid" of their inventory of 942s.

You're going to find that there are many here that are very niave and others that won't accept the truth when it slaps them side the head.

What Dish says and what Dish does are often not the same but it's not because their stupid, it's deleberite. This whole thing was carefully planned out and what Dish does about hardware upgrade will depend a lot on what customers say in these discussion threads.

Dish doesn't (and has never) care how pissed off their subs get or how much they bitch; only whether they'll ultimitly stay with Dish.

They will monitor all this (forums. emails, phone calls, etc) and then make a determination about how far they can push the envelope on the upgrade path. This is the main reason they are not announcing specific upgrade information for existing subs yet.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. It's what they did with the 942. New subs got the $249 lease right off. Existing got the chance to pay $800.

Existing 6000, 921 & 811 owners NEVER officially got the opprotunity at the $249 lease option. Unofficially there are some of us who worked closed door deals to get the lease option but it was on an individule basis and never offered to the general existing customer base. Why should we expect them to do any better now ?
 
I for one am glad that they did make their intension to be able to trade up to the newer receivers, "Ergen said that DISH network would make it "very attractive" for current customers with MPEG 2 set-top boxes to upgrade to one with MPEG 4. "Probably the cost of a service call," he said. This is a quote from Skyreport.com. I have a 921, which I paid $1000 for, and will gladly trade up for the 622. I also have a 942 that I might just keep a little longer, at least untill the "bugs" are worked out of the 622. I wonder what Dish is going to do with all the mpeg2 receivers?
 
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riffjim4069 said:
The car analogy is a bad one since the car is still fully functional and can be used to provide transportation to any destination...just gas and go. For those who purchased a HD receiver, it is my opinion that a customer has a reasonable expectation to be able to subscribe to any HD programming being offer by that provider unless there is a specific disclaimer provided when they made their purchase. It is also reasonable to assume those receivers under warranty should be modified/replaced in order to receive new MPEG-4 HD channels at least during the warranty period.
I feel that someone owning a HD receiver under warranty should be offered an upgraded or replacement receiver and pay nothing more than shipping...else, Dish should refund the purchase price of the receiver. I feel strongly about this...especially since many people purchased HD receivers based on official statements from Dish Network that new VOOM and ESPN2 channels would be in MPEG-2 (November Tech Chat).

Thats just what I did. A good friend of mine is a Dish retailer. We watched the Nov. chat. He said that they were adding more HD. I had cable. I went with Dish and got an 811 for my "53 HDTV. Now I find out I will not be able to get the new HD programing. What about all the crap about mpeg4 not being ready yet, that they was going to wait to get on the mpeg4 boat. Something about some other technology that was compatiable with current receivers was better than mpeg4 right now. Huh, what happened to that crap that was said at that tech chat. I choose then to go with dish. I WILL NOT PAY TO UPGRADE. I have a lease. If I lease a cable box and need an upgrade the cable co. does not bend me over.

I also wanted a dish 1000. Could not get one. Dish calls me a week after install asking how I like the service and how I like my DISH 1000! I had to put up a second dish and get 61.5 because that is what they said the VOOM was on. If they move it, they will replace my dish no charge or by by dish.
 
My opinion...

It's in E*'s best interest to have all HD channels at mpeg-4.
If they switched all of them to mpeg-4, current mpeg-2 HD receivers wouldn't get the HD channels. If that happened they would have to replace HD receivers for free or face legal action for requiring a new receiver to get programming available in mpeg-2 previously. This would be costly for E*.
So, if they switch to mpeg-4 only on new HD channels, we can complain to E*. However, legal action is near impossible because a receiver upgrade isn't required to view the programming available before the mpeg-4 upgrade.
Many curren't HD customers will pay to upgrade to mpeg-4 because they must have the lasted hardware and newest channels. That price will probably decrease until it's a free upgrade so E* can switch over all HD channels to mpeg-4.
E* is a business, so they will try to maximize profit. They will probably select an upgrade price for existing subs that will minimize people moving to D* and get the 'must have new technology' people to switch over to mpeg-4. Then they will need to look at how long they should do 'paying' upgrades vs. free upgrades and full conversion to HD mpeg-4. E* is will do whatever saves them the most money (they are a business).
If for some crazy reason dish does decide to up the charge for HD to subs that don't receive the additional channels(requiring subs to upgrade in order to receive programming they are paying for)...legal action is possible. Dish would be dumb to try something like that without offering a free upgrade to mpeg-4.
 
chevyN8,

I have to agree with you. They will go about this in whatever way it minimizes losses and maximizes profits. I begrudge no business a fair profit. I don't ask my friend down the road who owns an A/C business to come work on my air conditioner for free. He deserves to be paid for his time - but likewise he should charge a fair price and warranty his work.

There will come a day - maybe to a year or two down the road - when you can upgrade your HD receiver to MPEG4 for free. I'm not sure I can wait that long though, so I will probably jump on the first wave available.
 
EVERY future looking statement they make to existing customers in the chats are either false or off by a period of months or years. Unless they are talking about a new receiver or package offered TODAY, figure Charlie and his associates are full of chocolate mousse.....

I am so glad I resisted the urge to upgrade my 921 to a 942 based on Charlie's statements about Mpeg4 not happening for a while. I'm sorry if his words convinced any of you to go that route.
 
"based on Charlie's statements about Mpeg4 not happening for a while"

It wasn't Charlie. This was mentioned in the Tech. Chat by the VP of Engineering I believe. Then a month later in the Charlie Chat, Charlie said that any new channels will be in MPEG4.

In less than a month they changed the strategy for the new HD channels. What a bunch of crap!
 
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